Steel Road Frames?

steel is fine for all weights 🙂

How much do you wanna spend? Do you want something knew and fancy, or would you settle for 2nd hand? One good thing about aluminium and carbon becoming so popular is that a good 2nd hand Reynolds 531 frame can be picked up for under 200 bucks!!!

Other than that, there's a few Australian builders that do custom jobs, and there are several imports, but both of these options can be expensive.

I'd be VERY tempted to go second hand for steel because there are some awesome deals around.

janiejones said:

Are steel frames good for light weight people? I was once reading a review on a steel framed bike (Pegoretti) and the writer said it wasn't a bike for the smaller build because s/he would bounce around a lot'.

Not all steel frames are the same. Pegoretti's Big Leg Emma for example is designed to be extremely stiff. There are plenty of steel frames out there that are fine for lighter riders.

janiejones said:

Are steel frames good for light weight people? I was once reading a review on a steel framed bike (Pegoretti) and the writer said it wasn't a bike for the smaller build because s/he would bounce around a lot'.

I use to own a steelframe and it was one of the most comfortable rides ever. I'm thinking of getting another one in the future.

Who are some of the good manufacturers of steel frames these days?

Where in Aus are you?
In Victoria, there is Baum at www.jbcycles.com.au
In Sydney theres Hillbrick and John Bosevski at Taren Point which you can get through Steve Hogg at Pedal Pushers, Randwick. John does the best work but there may be a long wait.

I prefer steel also but that's because I'm 90+kgs and break things.

Cheers

Geoff

janiejones said:

Are steel frames good for light weight people? I was once reading a review on a steel framed bike (Pegoretti) and the writer said it wasn't a bike for the smaller build because s/he would bounce around a lot'.

I use to own a steelframe and it was one of the most comfortable rides ever. I'm thinking of getting another one in the future.

Who are some of the good manufacturers of steel frames these days?

Tommasini has a nice line of steel frames from the Deda 16.5 EOM tig welded Ultra-Fire, to the classic lugged Techno. Colnago still has a few as well. There are still plenty of custom steel bikes out there from companies like Steelman and Independent Fabrications to name a couple. I ride a steel Pinarello Opera (2004). Sadly, the Opera is no longer in the line (not to be confused with their sister company, Opera). My Opera has a nice stiff ride, but it soaks up road shocks very well.

janiejones said:

Are steel frames good for light weight people? I was once reading a review on a steel framed bike (Pegoretti) and the writer said it wasn't a bike for the smaller build because s/he would bounce around a lot'.

I use to own a steelframe and it was one of the most comfortable rides ever. I'm thinking of getting another one in the future.

Who are some of the good manufacturers of steel frames these days?

My CF kestrel bounces me way more then my old 1983 steel Trek--probably more a function of the geometry rather than the material. Steel was, and still is, an outstanding frame material. The only downside that I see is that is generally heavier than Al, Ti, or CF (and can rust if not properly maintained).

The new steel alloys can be built up with complete weights that are very competitive with Ti, Alu, CF, etc. Personally, I think that we might see a resurgence in Steel and/or other metals (like Magnesium on the higher end).

If you followed the Paris-Roubaix race, its amazing how many teams didn't ride the CF bikes and switched to Steel (Lampre's Ballan for finished 3rd), Aluminum (Davitamon-Lotto, Phonak), etc.

It says something that even in a one day classic race of 260 km Pro Teams think that CF won't last (and even the ones who did ride CF had them custom made for the race).

Today's steel is as competitive as any other material IMO and probably a better value given the rising cost of upper end bikes.

Serafino said:

The new steel alloys can be built up with complete weights that are very competitive with Ti, Alu, CF, etc. Personally, I think that we might see a resurgence in Steel and/or other metals (like Magnesium on the higher end).

If you followed the Paris-Roubaix race, its amazing how many teams didn't ride the CF bikes and switched to Steel (Lampre's Ballan for finished 3rd), Aluminum (Davitamon-Lotto, Phonak), etc.

It says something that even in a one day classic race of 260 km Pro Teams think that CF won't last (and even the ones who did ride CF had them custom made for the race).

Today's steel is as competitive as any other material IMO and probably a better value given the rising cost of upper end bikes.

Guess we have different opinions here. I don't see steel as being anywhere near competitive in terms of weight or stiffness with the better CF frames today. As a result, I think low-priced, high-quality CF now coming from Taiwan is going to relegate steel (and Ti) to the touring and custom niche. With all the years and tradition behind steel, it's almost sad to see it go.

On the other hand, not everyone cares about saving a lb on their bike frame. I still have my two 531 Raleigh steel bikes, and would certainly love to own a high-end custom steel ride. If CF frames look like plastic to you, and you prefer the look, feel and real-world durability of steel, by all means ride and enjoy.

Here are just a few more that spring to mind. 🙂
These are only current models (mostly '06 and '05), so all of these companies have older models floating around. Some of these Italian frames are 'UBER' expensive in Australia!!

The Basso Viper is steel, but I’m not sure of the quality:
http://www.bassobikes.com/en/products/details.php?sectionid=42&itemid=73&begincount=&pathtype=&SESSID=

Bianchi steel: USA only?
http://www.bianchiusa.com/06_imola.html

The Cinelli Supercorsa is steel:
http://www.cinelli.it/eng/bici/telai/Corsa/2006_SPIRIT.html

The Carrera Sheild is steel:
http://www.carrera-podium.it/eng/catalogo/shieldwb/index.html

Casati Lasar
http://www.ciclicasati.it/EN/modelli_acciaio.htm

The Ciocc De Luxe is steel with a carbon rear
http://www.ciocc.it/ciocc-eng/catalogo-de-luxe-carbon-eng.htm

The Colnago Master B-Stay is steel with a carbon rear
http://www.colnagonews.com/2006/bike/index.html

The Coppi Genius and Neuron:
http://www.bullteksports.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=BS&Category_Code=Coppi

The De Rosa Corum and Neo Primato:
http://www.derosanews.com/derosa/modules.php?name=DeRosa&op=showbike&bid=13
http://www.derosanews.com/derosa/modules.php?name=DeRosa&op=showbike&bid=14

The Daccordi Fibra4Steel and Profidea are both steel:
http://www.daccordi-cicli.com/daccordi_eg/prodotti.htm

The Fondriest Status is steel
http://www.fondriestbici.com/pubblicazione/prodotti/status_veloce.html

The Gios Compact Pro is steel
http://www.gios.it/2005/eng/prima.php?page=pro-frame

LeMond has a few steels
http://www.lemondbikes.com/2006_bikes/classics.shtml

The Olmo Mecury is steel:
http://www.olmo.it/newsite/home.php?lang=lng_2

The Orbea Spirit and Spirit Carbon are both steel
http://www.orbea-usa.com/fly.aspx?mId=m220&layout=viewproduct&taxId=463

http://www.pegoretticicli.com/

Omega Nucleus
http://www.omegacycleworks.com/nucleus.htm

The Pinarello Opera is steel with a carbon rear

The Salsa La Raza
http://www.salsacycles.com/frames_06LaRaza.html

Serotta have a few steels
http://www.serotta.com/pages/cda.html

Most Scapin frames are steel:
http://www.scapin.com/

The Specialized Allez Cro-Mo
http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?minisite=10085&spid=9360

Tommasini make a few steels:
http://www.tommasini.com/eng/prodotti.html

Torelli, Guerciotti, Mondonico
http://www.torelli.com/torelli/torelli.html

The Viner Sidus
http://www.viner.it/english/c_sidus.htm

I wanted one of the new steels a couple of years ago, and ended up with one of these, but wihtout the Belgian wheelbase 🙂

[img]cyclingnews.combike ch1825.jpgOpen ↗[/img]
2004 cervelo superprodigy

In case i've missed any, here's a list of just about every bike company
http://www.mikebentley.com/bike/bikemfg.htm

dhk said:

Guess we have different opinions here. I don't see steel as being anywhere near competitive in terms of weight or stiffness with the better CF frames today. As a result, I think low-priced, high-quality CF now coming from Taiwan is going to relegate steel (and Ti) to the touring and custom niche. With all the years and tradition behind steel, it's almost sad to see it go.

On the other hand, not everyone cares about saving a lb on their bike frame. I still have my two 531 Raleigh steel bikes, and would certainly love to own a high-end custom steel ride. If CF frames look like plastic to you, and you prefer the look, feel and real-world durability of steel, by all means ride and enjoy.

I've actually riden a lot of carbon. My first carbon bike was a Peugeot in the mid 1980's (used in the TdF by the Peugeot team and ridden to great effect by Rober Millar). Not much carbon back then I assure you and it feature carbon main tubes and an Alu rear triangle and Simplex gruppo.

Lower price carbon from Tiawan is just that ... lower priced carbon. There is a reason that many lines have several grades of carbon in their line up. All carbon, like all Alu, Steel, Ti, etc., is not the same.

My point is that at the high end, Steel is very, very close in terms of weight (down to 16 lbs certainly), ride quality (some would argue its superior), to Alu, Ti, and Carbon. The issue with carbon is longevity (still too early to tell really) given the expensive of a mid end or high end carbon bike.

The ProTour bikes have little in common with your 2000 USD Carbon bike. I'd say that carbon is probably, once you amortize investment, easier and cheaper to spit out in mass production at the lower end that high quality steel or aluminum.

Let's not forget that the ProTour was won on an aluminum bike last year (Bianchi's FG Lite) and many teams still use Alu when its required (CSC's Soloists, Lampre, Liquigas, Phonak, DL, etc.).

Carbon's great, but if you are a heavier rider (even 175 lbs qualifies) and want a longer term investment, I'd also investigate high end steel and aluminum personally.

Lastly, its not the bike .. its the rider. 🙂

Serafino said:

Let's not forget that the ProTour was won on an aluminum bike last year . 🙂

that's the thing that gets me about carbon: people go on like it's the best thing since stretch denim, and I'm sure the good frames are great to ride, but pleny of big races are still being won on aluminium. So, spending $4000 on a frame-set is unlikely to make me faster.

531Aussie said:

that's the thing that gets me about carbon: people go on like it's the best thing since stretch denim, and I'm sure the good frames are great to ride, but pleny of big races are still being won on aluminium. So, spending $4000 on a frame-set is unlikely to make me faster.

Nice Cervelo Super Prodigy btw 🙂 There's a new Cervelo Renaissance at a local shop which tempts me. Nice fat chainstays like the Pegoretti Big Leg Emma.

Serafino said:

Nice Cervelo Super Prodigy btw 🙂 There's a new Cervelo Renaissance at a local shop which tempts me. Nice fat chainstays like the Pegoretti Big Leg Emma.

oooh, er, nice! :p

Is it a real Renaissance (black, red and white), or is someone trying pass off an old white Prodigy as one? That happens a bit down here.

A guy on the Serotta forum owns this sexy beast!! :p Lucky bugger!
http://www.serotta.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=7589&stc=1
The Renaissance frame-sets were about $4000 down here

Its a real Renaissance. The shop sells lots of Cervelos but primarily to triathletes so this one's been languishing for a while 😉 I don't really need another bike and I was looking at a Pegoretti but its tempting. Its nowhere near as expensive up here ... with a Dura-Ace its about $4K.

Serafino said:

Its a real Renaissance. The shop sells lots of Cervelos but primarily to triathletes so this one's been languishing for a while 😉 I don't really need another bike and I was looking at a Pegoretti but its tempting. Its nowhere near as expensive up here ... with a Dura-Ace its about $4K.

nice [img]musicianforums.comthumb.gifOpen ↗[/img]

Serafino said:

I've actually riden a lot of carbon. My first carbon bike was a Peugeot in the mid 1980's (used in the TdF by the Peugeot team and ridden to great effect by Rober Millar). Not much carbon back then I assure you and it feature carbon main tubes and an Alu rear triangle and Simplex gruppo.

Lower price carbon from Tiawan is just that ... lower priced carbon. There is a reason that many lines have several grades of carbon in their line up. All carbon, like all Alu, Steel, Ti, etc., is not the same.

My point is that at the high end, Steel is very, very close in terms of weight (down to 16 lbs certainly), ride quality (some would argue its superior), to Alu, Ti, and Carbon. The issue with carbon is longevity (still too early to tell really) given the expensive of a mid end or high end carbon bike.

The ProTour bikes have little in common with your 2000 USD Carbon bike. I'd say that carbon is probably, once you amortize investment, easier and cheaper to spit out in mass production at the lower end that high quality steel or aluminum.

Let's not forget that the ProTour was won on an aluminum bike last year (Bianchi's FG Lite) and many teams still use Alu when its required (CSC's Soloists, Lampre, Liquigas, Phonak, DL, etc.).

Carbon's great, but if you are a heavier rider (even 175 lbs qualifies) and want a longer term investment, I'd also investigate high end steel and aluminum personally.

Lastly, its not the bike .. its the rider. 🙂

Well, we are in agreement that Al and steel still make fine frames, and certainly races can and will be won on Al and steel in the future. But for the weight-wienie set, strong, stiff and durable CF frames are now on the market at 1 kg or less. Al may be close, but no steel frame I've seen is in the running below 1500 grams. Not that it matters to most of us....a full water bottle weighs 600 g.

As far as longevity, personally don't think it's an issue for the average (non-racing) recreational rider doing maybe 3000-5000 miles a year. After all, millions of older CF frames and forks are on the road everyday now.

On the other hand, strong high-mileage racers will break anything in 2-3 seasons of hard hammering. I know a couple on them that have been through over a dozen frames; steel, Ti, AL, CF....doesn't seem to matter. One ex-racer still rides an older 5200 Trek frame....he got 2 warranty replacements before Trek got wise and cut him off. (Like all major brands, they don't warranty against fatigue or "normal" wearout).

Bottom line for me: get the frame material you like. Very high-quality CF frames are coming out of the big Taiwan factories now, but if you don't care for "plastic" bikes, then you have other great options. FYI, I have a couple of Raleigh steel 531 bikes (not high-end), but now ride a locally-built Al frame with CF fork and rear stays. Would like to try a super thinwall steel frame (eg, True Temper S3) sometime.

dhk said:

Well, we are in agreement that Al and steel still make fine frames, and certainly races can and will be won on Al and steel in the future. But for the weight-wienie set, strong, stiff and durable CF frames are now on the market at 1 kg or less. Al may be close, but no steel frame I've seen is in the running below 1500 grams. Not that it matters to most of us....a full water bottle weighs 600 g.

I think someone put together a prototype frame with the new True Temper S3 tube set that was close to 1kg. Of course the only real advantage to having a frame that light made out of any material is that the pieces are easier to carry home.

in response to the original questions...No there is no minimum or maximum weight for a steel bike. Don't most smaller frames have thinner walled tubes anyway? I certainly don't think it would bounce you all over...

artmichalek said:

I think someone put together a prototype frame with the new True Temper S3 tube set that was close to 1kg. Of course the only real advantage to having a frame that light made out of any material is that the pieces are easier to carry home.

LOL on carrying the pieces. Would you guess that an S3 tubeset to build a 1 kg frame has a wall thickness around .012 inch, or 0.3 mm? As strong as S3 is in tensile strength, would worry about dents in tubing that thin. But near 1 kg is amazing for steel. Can't deny a steel frame at 1250 grams or less has some appeal to me too...that's what my custom Al/CF frame weighs.

Just remembered that one of the top Cat 1s uses an S3 frame from the local custom builder. He's a small racer, about 5'6" and 140 lbs. Also recalled that one of the fastest climbers and century riders in this region rides a "plain old" Colombus Foco steel frame, also from the local builder, with regular 32 spoke wheels. Having a couple extra lbs on his bike doesn't bother him; in fact, he seems to enjoy passing most everyone on his low-tech ride which is about 9 years old now.

Bottom line for me is that CF still has an advantage at the extreme lightweight end, but in the real world, the lb saved doesn't really matter. Actually, can relate to those who still prefer welded metal tubes to bonded CFRP...the classic skinny-tubed steel bikes are starting to look cool again to me too.

dhk said:

LOL on carrying the pieces. Would you guess that an S3 tubeset to build a 1 kg frame has a wall thickness around .012 inch, or 0.3 mm? As strong as S3 is in tensile strength, would worry about dents in tubing that thin. But near 1 kg is amazing for steel. Can't deny a steel frame at 1250 grams or less has some appeal to me too...that's what my custom Al/CF frame weighs.

Just remembered that one of the top Cat 1s uses an S3 frame from the local custom builder. He's a small racer, about 5'6" and 140 lbs. Also recalled that one of the fastest climbers and century riders in this region rides a "plain old" Colombus Foco steel frame, also from the local builder, with regular 32 spoke wheels. Having a couple extra lbs on his bike doesn't bother him; in fact, he seems to enjoy passing most everyone on his low-tech ride which is about 9 years old now.

I was wrong, the S3 is 0.41mm. The 1kg frame I was thinking about used the new Reynolds 953 stainless, which is in fact 0.3mm:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/2005/shows/australia05/?id=results/australia051
2050MPa is pretty impressive, but I still wouldn't put that thing anywhere near a bike rack for fear of denting the top tube. Of course, having a comfortable frame with the right geometry for your body is always going to be more important than shaving a few grams.