Steel Road Frames?

I see you are in Australia. Scapin makes some beautiful frames in steel and seems to be more widely available there than here in the US. The Basso Viper is also a beautiful frame - I am in the process of building one up this month.

dhk said:

No steel frame I've seen is in the running below 1500 grams. ....a full water bottle weighs 600 g.

Hi, DHK! Is it that what you call a "water bottle" over there? Here in Old Europe that would be our empty bottle weight. Filled it makes a good 2.400 g. That's what we call "water bottle" for a proper training ride: 2 1l bottles filled up to the top!! (Joke!)

But just to let you know, modern tubesets are by far better now than what they were just a few years ago. No problem any longer to build a frame weighing in at 1.200 g – every famous producer offers tubesets, which will make a lovely steel frame not a gram heavier than CF or Al!

But still I am missing the one killer arg for steel and Ti, which has not been mentioned up to now in any thread on material choice: If you decide for a steel frame, you would rather go to see your local frame builder, where you will in any case get much better quality than from all the great brands. (Without exception all big brands spend much more of their energy for marketing than for the quality of their work). And you know exactly what tubeset you will get, what the great producers love to make a big mystery on, talking about "oh, it's custom drawn to our specs" and that kind of [censored] up and down.

And with steel tubing you have a wide range of specifications to opt upon even within one tubeset like Ultrafoco following your very personal requirements like body geometry, surrounding landscape etc. pp. Wall thicknesses will vary, diameteres will be adapted and son on, making your frame very personal indeed. Isn't that something? No Monocoque knitter will offer that kind of service to you, unless your name is Armstrong, Lance – having the holy halls of Trek Limited behind your back! And all this is true for Ti as well – ask Seven Ron, he will bounce it into your brains in no time!

Not that all this really matters. As quoted a dozen times within this thread: ride what you like best. It is just a question of taking the best information into account to back up your choice as we are always talking about quite a few bucks as well. Speaking a repentant convertit, stepping back onto the paths of his innocent, virgin youth – lugged steel that is.

I would recommend looking at a Scapin. They have always believed and more or less specialised in steel. Beautiful, reliable frames.

And there is no weight issue with steel - just get a frame with the correct geometry and made of a steel tubing that makes sense for your weight and riding characteristics.

Perhaps I should use the opportunity now to say "hello" to the users of this forum, for #22 being my first mark within cylingforums.com!

Hello all, out there in the wilderness. Love the forum, great stuff. That's why I contributed to the mother of our german www.rennrad-news.de as well. Nowhere else in the world to get that amount of competent information and personal view!

To say just one word about my own perspective to biking: I am 57 and I live to ride and ride to live. Since first walk. Just love bikes. Love Sasha White – Vanilla Bikes that is. Nothing more to say.

Yours,
Vincent from Berlin – you might have heard of that little place near the outer mongolian border, I guess?

Vincent Kluwe said:

Perhaps I should use the opportunity now to say "hello" to the users of this forum, for #22 being my first mark within cylingforums.com!

Hello all, out there in the wilderness. Love the forum, great stuff. That's why I contributed to the mother of our german www.rennrad-news.de as well. Nowhere else in the world to get that amount of competent information and personal view!

To say just one word about my own perspective to biking: I am 57 and I live to ride and ride to live. Since first walk. Just love bikes. Love Sasha White – Vanilla Bikes that is. Nothing more to say.

Yours,
Vincent from Berlin – you might have heard of that little place near the outer mongolian border, I guess?

Welcome to the neighborhood. I haven't seen too many Vanillas up close in person, but if the pictures are any indication Sasha White is the finest frame builder of his generation. If not all time. Do you have one?

artmichalek said:

Welcome to the neighborhood. I haven't seen too many Vanillas up close in person, but if the pictures are any indication Sasha White is the finest frame builder of his generation. If not all time. Do you have one?

Hello Artmichalek!
Thank you so much for welcoming me at our forum.

As we all know the best frames are built in Italy. Fullstop. ......... And the best italian frames are built in the US! Vanilla. Rivendell. Richard Sachs. Soulcraft. Steelman. Waterford. Not to forget Seven, Merlin and all the rest of this very long list of american contributors. Believe me, Italian frame art is not any longer, what it used to be! To many disappointments to be quoted here.

To answer your question: No, I am not a Vanilla Bike owner by now. But I will be! One Vanilla RR passed my way and I tell you: it's the details! The details, which you don't remark watching the fotos of Sasha's site. I will have the chance to visit Sasha in Oregon, presenting the english version of my latest book to the english speaking public, beginning it's tour in the US. And to follow up your impression. As far as I am able to judge: Sasha IS the finest artisan frame builder of his generation. True artist plus a lovely person himself. Talking to him I feel being brothers in heart.

As one famous Zen master said: If our pupils are not better than ourselves, we went wrong!

Vincent

There was one Italian artisan still building frames... Antonio Mondonico. Unfortuantely he is retiring when he finishes building this last batch of frames which could be any day now.

If you are looking for a very nice steel frame at a reasonable price, I think the Torelli countach might be the best value on the market. Its tig welded Columbus Nemo (.7/.4/.7 wall thickness). Very nice finish work, and a fabulous ride.

I'd love to have a Vanilla or a Sachs someday...but I'm not into waiting two years+ for a frame at this point.. 😉

I just had a look at the Vanilla site. They must be some of the most beautiful road frames I've ever seen.

I'd happily sell my girlfriend for one. Any offers? 😉

izzythedan said:

I just had a look at the Vanilla site. They must be some of the most beautiful road frames I've ever seen.

I'd happily sell my girlfriend for one. Any offers? 😉

izzythedan said:

I'd happily sell my girlfriend for one. Any offers? 😉

I am 57 – I have no choice. Take her even without foto!!

Vincent

P.S.:
vanillabicycles.comindex.htmlOpen ↗

Dear Vincent, welcome the forum, and... as one of the few resident Italians, I must protest. There are nice steel frames being built in Italy, just not from any of the very big boys that everyone hears about! 🙂

Powerful Pete said:

As one of the few resident Italians, I must protest. There are nice steel frames being built in Italy, just not from any of the very big boys that everyone hears about! 🙂

Dear Pete,
sorry, I did not mean to be offensive to any Italian! I love Italians and their way of live. But still it makes me sad to see, how things developed the past 20 or so years! In case you are living in North Italy, having someone like Signors Mondonico or Pegoretti in your neighbourhood, you would surely get a nice frame. But then you have to be there and talk to them personally! If living elsewhere around the globe you are dependent on the work of the better known brands, who are able to maintain an international marketing network and that is where adventure starts.
Yours,
Vincent

But I would love to find my way back to the original question of jamiejones, who has started this thread:

Have a look for modern tubests like Columbus Ultrafoco or Life, Deda SAT 14.5, True Temper OX Platinum or Reynolds 853 (I did not mention the very top tubes intentionally for their use is so delicate, that they should be reserved to professional or at least very specialized use). All these makes are offered in a wide range of different tapers, wall thicknesses and measures. That makes it easy for a competent framebuilder, to fine tune a frame exactly to your size and personal needs. All I wanted to say with my different statements is: go and ask your framebuilder nearby instead of being dazzled by the big names! It is no problem for any framebuilder to order a certain tubeset for just one single frame – the producers of frame tubes are very prepared to work on such an individual basis! And this is exactly how to get the best result.

531Aussie said:

steel is fine for all weights 🙂

How much do you wanna spend? Do you want something knew and fancy, or would you settle for 2nd hand? One good thing about aluminium and carbon becoming so popular is that a good 2nd hand Reynolds 531 frame can be picked up for under 200 bucks!!!

Other than that, there's a few Australian builders that do custom jobs, and there are several imports, but both of these options can be expensive.

I'd be VERY tempted to go second hand for steel because there are some awesome deals around.

Interesting - For $175 I picked up a van Werkhoven Reynolds 531 frame and fork in OK to good condition with full set of 105 Shimano jewellery, 7 speed w shifters on the tube, Mavic wheelset. spent a little extra on a full service and replacing sticky brake handles - resisted to advice to go to STI shifters - put a battery in the computer and ended up with a bike that seems to go pretty sweetly and comfortably. It can go much faster than my legs can push it. Appears much lighter than the Giant CRX2 I bought. The guy I bought it off was a retired gym owner, looked like he was about 70Kg. He certainly praised the bike up and, suckered or not, I tended to believe him. - Pleased I bought the bike, so I reckon you just could get the same if you tried one..
- So I guess if you find one

if we're getting into steel testamonials... here's mine:

i started to get into the"weight weenie" mindset- measuring the gram difference in my shoes, half filled water bottles, etc.

but i rebuilt my old 1986 Raleigh (one owner, 531, w/ grand sport) and took it out for the local ride just to see if there was any life left in the ol' girl.

and by damn, even with the extra 4-5 lbs... it is still a VERY capable machine.

the ONLY negatives were- the older geometry (easily fixed w/ modern fork, stem, etc)

and under the most extreme accelerations... it had a bit more momentum to get moving. (a non issue with modern weights)

however it did prove me on one thing... my next bike will be steel. only with modern geometry and wheel spacing.

my $.02

schmuzzy said:

if we're getting into steel testamonials... here's mine:

i started to get into the"weight weenie" mindset- measuring the gram difference in my shoes, half filled water bottles, etc.

but i rebuilt my old 1986 Raleigh (one owner, 531, w/ grand sport) and took it out for the local ride just to see if there was any life left in the ol' girl.

and by damn, even with the extra 4-5 lbs... it is still a VERY capable machine.

the ONLY negatives were- the older geometry (easily fixed w/ modern fork, stem, etc)

and under the most extreme accelerations... it had a bit more momentum to get moving. (a non issue with modern weights)

however it did prove me on one thing... my next bike will be steel. only with modern geometry and wheel spacing.

my $.02

oh- i forgot-

my next bike will most likely be from Independant Fabrication. if you are state-side and are even thinking about steel...

check these guys out. www.ifbikes.com

Vincent Kluwe said:

Dear Pete,
sorry, I did not mean to be offensive to any Italian! I love Italians and their way of live. But still it makes me sad to see, how things developed the past 20 or so years! In case you are living in North Italy, having someone like Signors Mondonico or Pegoretti in your neighbourhood, you would surely get a nice frame. But then you have to be there and talk to them personally! If living elsewhere around the globe you are dependent on the work of the better known brands, who are able to maintain an international marketing network and that is where adventure starts.
Yours,
Vincent

Ciao Vincent, no offense taken. I would agree with you that the larger Italian producers have very much ignored steel recently - you have to go after a niche maker a la Pegoretti, as you said.

But I am from Rome... not a great many steel frame-makers in this area, unfortunately!🙁

All the best, PP

How about this one?!? Ain't it a beauty? Unhappily not the very best tube set and not very 'fine tunable' either. Plus much too much too expensive for what you get.

schmuzzy said:

oh- i forgot-

my next bike will most likely be from Independant Fabrication. if you are state-side and are even thinking about steel...

check these guys out. www.ifbikes.com

They seem a little crazy!

Vincent Kluwe said:

How about this one?!? Ain't it a beauty? Unhappily not the very best tube set and not very 'fine tunable' either. Plus much too much too expensive for what you get.

I like it (but then again, I am partial to De Rosa! :p). If I were to go for a steel bike I would seriously consider the Primato (I do think it looks lovely) as well as a Scapin.

Tough choice - Scapin is a better performing frame, while I love the look of the Primato.

Powerful Pete said:

I like it (but then again, I am partial to De Rosa! :p). If I were to go for a steel bike I would seriously consider the Primato (I do think it looks lovely) as well as a Scapin. Tough choice - Scapin is a better performing frame, while I love the look of the Primato.

Like this one then? Great performer, too! Unhappily too skinny tubes for my size. But very fast and light for the average sized rider.