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Input for redesigned Coker

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rec.sport.unicycling
Published
25 January 2006
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31 January 2006
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new_coker
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  1. Let me introduce myself first. My name is Troy Watson and I have been
    hired by Coker to redesign The Big One.

    Please let me know what you Guys would like to see changed or stay the
    same. I would also like to get feedback on how many would be interested
    in different models of The Big One. I am thinking about offering 2 to 3
    different models with different options.

    So please post anything and everything you have ever wanted on a Coker
    or wanted changed and then stay tuned for the new and improved Big
    one.

    Thanks,

    Troy

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    new_coker
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  2. Anything to keep the price down.

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    ntappin
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  3. You might want to check out the thread started by one of the guys from
    the coker tyre company, there were loads of suggestions in that for
    improvements and variations.

    http://www.unicyclist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45198

    I think better tyre availability and possibly a couple of tyre options
    such as a 2.5" tyre for off road and a slick like the maxxis hookworm
    for road use.

    hope this helps

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    plumsie
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  4. I think the most important improvements would be a wide hub
    http://www.unicycle.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=786 and a strong rim
    http://www.unicycle.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=569. Stainless steel
    spokes would be nice as well.

    Do you know how far off the production of these new beasts will be?

    --
    pdc

    "What doesn't kill you strengthens you, what kills you strengthens your
    mother"
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  5. A light and cool looking aluminium frame with brake mounts.

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    Korv
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  6. i think a few different models with various levels of strength and
    performance is an incredibly good idea. a stronger hub is a must for
    all levels, a decent seat, and brake mounts would be things i'd
    suggest.

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    markf

    stuck in iowa and unemployed.
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  7. Make it even bigger !

    T.

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    -\"just eat less pies, and then the loads on your seatpost will be
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  8. Here is some of the changes that will be made so far.

    1. It will have a wider hub.
    2. Alloy rim that should be lighter then the Airfoil rim.
    3. stainless spokes and I might increase the spoke count to 40 or 48
    4. Some type of new saddle, I am looking into get a air saddle made

    Here are some things that I am planning but don't know if they will
    make it into production.

    1. New tire with rounder profile.
    2. Reinforced frame
    3. Brake and or mounts on the frame.
    4. offroad tire, but don't hold your breath on this one.

    I am also looking at making a 40 or 44 inch uni also. A few people have
    asked for a 48 inch but I think that might be to limited on who can
    ride it because of how tall you would have to be.

    Keep the input coming, Thanks.

    --
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  9. Welcome Troy! What is your background? Tell us a little about yourself
    and it might make it easier for us to explain where we're coming from.
    For example, are you a Big One rider, and if so do you ride it a lot?
    Or are you a frame maker, product designer, etc?

    I'll repeat some of the stuff I probably wrote in that earlier thread.

    THE ESSENCE OF THE COKER BIG ONE:
    The Big One (which we simply call a Coker) has created new categories
    of unicyclist. Road riding is now much more viable so people use Cokers
    to train for fitness, to get to work/school, to ride on trails, and to
    do big tours like the current Laos Tour for charity:
    http://www.laosunitour.org/

    Before the advent of the Coker a few people did these things, but the
    unicycles were expensive, uncomfortable, trouble-prone, and did I
    mention expensive? The most important feature of the Coker is the very
    large *pneumatic* tire. I have a 45" big wheel from 1982. It's great in
    parades and shows, but it runs on a solid rubber wheelchair tire. You
    feel every nuance of the road surface. Even though my Coker is only
    36", it's a no-brainer which one to use for a long ride. For my former
    8-mile commute to work, I might ride my 45" once a year (on Bike to
    Work Day), but I tried to ride my Coker at least once a week, weather
    permitting.

    So to stay the special vehicle it is, the Big One needs to stay
    affordable, and have a big, comfy air tire.

    FOR THE BASIC MODEL:
    Assuming there will be more than one variant, the number one priority
    for the base, highest-selling model should be keeping the cost down.
    There is already one competitor in the marketplace, and more are likely
    to follow. That said, you could make improvements to the base model in
    a few areas, in order of what I think are importance to sales:

    1. Lose the Viscount seat:
    Yuck. Most of the Coker riders I know have upgraded their seats (and I
    know a lot of Coker riders). The KH is the best seat on the market, but
    I assume it costs more. It's available in a range of versions. The
    seats on the Torker LX (same as Miyata) are also good. The Viscount
    seat was good for its day, as a replacement for the old-style Schwinn
    seats in 1986. But it was never more than a bridge between that old
    seat and the Miyata saddles of the day. I helped design it.

    2. Wider hub:
    This is probably the cheapest upgrade possible, and would make a major
    structural improvement to the wheel. My 45" Unicycle Factory wheel
    measures about 5.25" between the flanges, but it doesn't feel wide when
    ridden. Look at old penny-farthing bikes. You need a wide hub to keep
    your wheel rigid. Stock Cokers are very prone to tacoing. I imagine an
    order of wider hubs, from the same manufacturer, would have very little
    cost difference than the usual ones.

    3. Better rim:
    That's a pretty weak rim. Now there are at least two other rims on the
    market, the airfoil and the one that comes with what Unicycle.com calls
    the Radial 360 (http://www.unicycle.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=822).
    The airfoil was a custom job for early Coker enthusiasts; the first
    major Coker-specific upgrade. I don't know how much it would cost to
    upgrade the rim, so it's #3 on my list.

    I don't have any issues with the tire. Yes, it's heavy. But it's a
    specialty tire and it's supposed to have a long life. Most buyers will
    want it to be heavy duty, and long life is more important than weight.
    I like the "classic" tread pattern. I like seeing old cars in museums
    with the same tread. It works well on the road and on dirt as well.
    That tire is what makes the Coker a Coker, and I see no need to change
    the original (as long as you add variations; read on).

    ENTHUSIAST MODEL:
    There are many ways to go with this, so I'll campaign for my favorite,
    and let others suggest their own. The purpose of my "enthusiast" model
    is to address the Coker's main useful quality and build upon it. That
    quality is the large pneumatic tire. Make it bigger, and slant it more
    toward the enthusiast unicyclist with a deeper pocket.

    - Wheel diameter around 42". This should be big enough to make a
    substantial difference over the current 36" version, yet small enough
    to still fit most adults. Lots of people can fit on my 45" wheel, and
    the seat doesn't even go very low!

    - Narrower tire. The current 36" tire is like a giant cruiser tire,
    heavy and cushy. It rides really nice, as long as you're going
    straight, but it's quite heavy. If you have a bike background, you know
    that rotational weight is the most useful area to make savings,
    especially when it comprises the majority of the cycle. But not too
    skinny. As you approach road bike dimensions, your ride quality will
    start to approach that of my 45", which takes a lot of the fun out of
    the ride. Also it will increase the risk of pinch flats. As I learned
    with my 45" wheel, the larger the diameter, the more prone the rim is
    to getting flat spots from hitting bumps or going down curbs. So the
    tire needs to protect the rim as well as the rider. I think a good
    compromise would be roughly a 1.5" tire. This should make it lighter
    than the 36" tire, even at its larger size, and yet still a comfortable
    ride with enough "gap" between road and rim to help protect it. Maybe
    1.75". Also such a tire should steer a lot better, because it would be
    run at higher pressure. I find the 36" to be very sluggish for turning,
    compared to my 45" which I can literally spin on a dime. Sorry about
    the long paragraph!

    - Rigid rim. As wheels get bigger they get weaker, so strength should
    be the primary concern. Light is good, but not at the cost of integrity
    over the long haul. People will use wheels like this to ride to work,
    to tour, to train, and to race. As this is an enthusiast model, the rim
    should be alloy. Something like the Airfoil might be the way to go for
    strength.

    - Wide hub (see above).

    - Possibly shorter cranks. 150mm is a good "starter" size for today's
    Coker, but most enthusiasts, save those who ride offroad, use shorter
    cranks. 125s live on mine, and they even work on easy trails. For
    myself, I think I'd use 125 on a 42" wheel also. But a new one should
    maybe come with 140s. This will will not be intended for offroad use.

    - Rigid frame. Today's Coker uses the least expensive form of decent
    unicycle frame technology. There's room for improvement. But I'll save
    that for another post.

    - KH or equivalent saddle.

    - Consider a saddle mounting scheme that allows for a very low seat
    height. One possiblity would be a horizontal seat post. Move the seat
    farther back to increase the effective height. The front end of such a
    post could be used as a handlebar/brake/computer mount. Again, I'll
    save details for a later post.

    OPTIONS:
    For any Coker model, options or upgrades would be nice:

    - My enthusiast design above ignores the trail riders. I don't know how
    big a segment of the market that is, but I did not forget them. My
    thought is that they would stick with 36" and campaign for a MUni
    (Mountain Unicycling)-specific tire. Something chunkier and maybe
    wider.

    - Brake. Great for the downhills! I don't use mine (on my Deluxe model
    from Unicycle.com) much, but it's very handy on those long, steep
    descents.

    - Bolt-on handlebar, rack mounts, computer stubs, etc. This goes along
    with the frame ideas to be written later. But for owners of basic
    frames, bolt-on accessories would probably be a lot cheaper! Check out
    the unitours.org web site as a starting place to look at road Cokers.

    Okay, I'm out of time. Please hire me to help you design the next
    generation of Cokers. I have a lot of free time these days, and have
    been riding big wheel since 1981. You can reach me at the email address
    below, or give me a call at 916-359-7876.

    Me and Cokers:
    http://unicycling.smugmug.com/gallery/933327/1/42719898
    http://unicycling.smugmug.com/gallery/609401/5/25744992
    http://unicycling.smugmug.com/gallery/146926/8/5407048
    And I was there in 1998 when David Coker brought a prototype to our
    National Unicycling Convention.

    --
    johnfoss

    John Foss
    "jfoss" at "unicycling.com" -- www.unicycling.com
    -----------------------------------------------

    "Idiot America—where fact is merely that which enough people believe,
    and truth is measured only by how fervently they believe it." --
    Charles Pierce, in Esquire Magazine
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  10. Hello new_coker,

    Thank you for asking what we'd like, good luck with this project.

    If your making it lighter, A ligher 36" tube is necessary.

    Offer with the Coker name on the frame, as point of pride for the
    rider.

    Always use double sealed bearings.

    --
    Chrashing

    Regards,
    Ken
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  11. Ok, I will give you some of my background.

    I have been riding bikes since right before I turned 3 years old. My
    mom always tells a story about how she was taliking with of friend
    about how she was thinking about getting me a bike for my third
    birthday. Her concern was that I would not be able to ride it. As she
    was talking I rode by the kitchen window on a neighbor kids bike which
    had no training wheels and was way to big.

    Since then I have worked in the bike industry for various frame
    companies and wheel companies. I myself am a Dt certified wheel builder
    and have built over 6000 wheels. I have my own custom wheel business
    which is currently being done part time to concentrate on the new
    Coker.

    I can ride a unicycle and I do have a Big One but I do not ride it that
    often. To me it is more of something to do ocasionally for fun.

    --
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  12. Would there be a interest for colors or what about a all black one?

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    new_coker
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  13. Thanks for the background check. You definitely learned to ride a bike
    earlier than most of us! I think I was five, but I still remember the
    day I rode without training wheels. I'm sure I could have learned
    earlier, but my parents and I didn't know about my future with cycling
    at the time. 🙂

    Sounds like you know more about wheels than most of us put together.
    That's great! Knowledge of large wheels is what we need here. You
    probably have to talk with Wheelmen or similar to get more background
    in that area.

    new_coker said:

    I can ride a unicycle and I do have a Big One but I do not ride it that
    often. To me it is more of something to do ocasionally for fun.

    Expect the majority of people here to *not* have a good picture of the
    market. We are mostly enthusiasts and hardcore
    hobbyists/athletes/inventors. I don't know the numbers, but I expect
    the vast majority of Coker owners ride them occasionally, for novelty
    purposes. So most upgrades may be irrelevant to them (hence keeping the
    low-priced base model).

    Quoted message said:

    Would there be a interest for colors or what about a all black one?

    As for me, I love my chrome. Unicycles tend to get loaded in cars much
    more than bikes do, and I believe many will have a tendency to be
    loaded with other unicycles. This is where much of the wear and tear to
    a frame's finish occurs. Bikes seem to get better treatment, on racks
    or loaded with less other sets of pedals or other scratchy things. My
    45" wheel has a Schwinn-style, painted frame, which has been repainted
    several times. It looks like hell, all chipped up.

    So I hope you will keep a chrome version, whether or not painted ones
    are available. And black would be my least likely choice for a color. I
    do like anodized aluminum though. 🙂

    Plus you wrote some more while I was working on my "novel":

    Quoted message said:

    2. Reinforced frame

    Cool. Unicycle frames are very prone to twisting, as they are only
    supported by the wheel bearings. I suspect future unicycles will
    someday address this with larger bearings, or fatter hubs that allow
    for more rigid bearings. As we put more torque onto our frames, with
    powerful pedaling, handlebars, racks, etc., we continue to pile more
    and more twisting force onto those bearings. Uh, so use good bearings;
    sealed on both sides!

    Quoted message said:

    I am also looking at making a 40 or 44 inch uni also. A few people have
    asked for a 48 inch but I think that might be to limited on who can
    ride it because of how tall you would have to be.

    Correct, though this can be somewhat mitigated by thinking outside the
    box of the usual, vertical seat post.

    I like the other items you listed as well!

    --
    johnfoss

    John Foss
    "jfoss" at "unicycling.com" -- www.unicycling.com
    -----------------------------------------------

    "Idiot America—where fact is merely that which enough people believe,
    and truth is measured only by how fervently they believe it." --
    Charles Pierce, in Esquire Magazine
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  14. johnfoss said:

    Correct, though this can be somewhat mitigated by thinking outside the
    box of the usual, vertical seat post.

    I like the other items you listed as well!

    No matter the shape of the seat post, the radius of the wheel is
    constant, if the radius of the wheel is longer than your leg then you
    are out of luck. Unless theres a special trick im unaware of or im
    misunderstanding you how would something other than a vertical seat
    post help?

    (EDIT)By radius im actually referring to the distance to the
    pedals(/EDIT)

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  15. It could be done in a similar way to a giraffe, I think someone
    mentioned that a while ago in one of the giraffe topics.

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  16. yuo could have one peddle like3/4 way up the wheel at boath side, and
    small chains on both sides going down to the axel or somthing...

    probaly a lot of effort for little result though

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  17. I think the biggest practical uni is probably 36. If you want it faster
    just gear it up.

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  18. I think the most important things are:
    1)KH or equlivant saddle
    2)make it affordable
    3)more options like crank size and colors
    4)offer a handle option
    5)make it affordable
    6)by the way... i still cant afford one... :p

    --
    mike_echter
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  19. Do something radical that will whip the [censored] out of your competitors on
    the 36" market and the geared unicycles: Build an even bigger wheel! As
    long as the rider can reach the pedals he will have more of that nice
    floating Coker feeling the bigger the wheel becomes.

    The forerunners in the early days of unicycling didn't content with 36"
    - they had discovered how soft and fast you can ride on a wheel that is
    46" or even 56". At that time they only had massive tyres which
    probably gave bad road-holding ability plus lousy comfort. Imagine a
    modern built unicycle of that size! If anyone can make unicycles with
    such big pneumatic tyres it is the Coker company. With these unicycles
    you would once again spearhead the unicycle market.

    [image:
    http://www.unicyclist.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=8926&stc=1&d=1121763307]

    --
    goldenchicken
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  20. for a deluxe
    water bottle carrier

    bycicle co🙂
    brakes

    strong arms that dont bend mine do

    maybe you could have options for some
    and have to s deluxe and not so deluxe

    🙄

    --
    unicycle dave
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