Input for redesigned Coker

Is the radial 360 made by Coker or whom

--
Daytripper63
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Daytripper63 said:

Is the radial 360 made by Coker or whom

We do not make the Radial 360.

--
new_coker
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Daytripper63 said:

Is the radial 360 made by Coker or whom

We do not make the Radial 360.

--
new_coker
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new_coker said:

Many of you are suggesting a geared Big One but just as many want the
price to stay the same or be less.
The idea of a geared Big One sounds awsome but I don't think many would
pay the 1000 plus dollars that it would cost. To get a internally
geared hub made I would need to have 500 or more made and that is about
the number of Big Ones that we sell in three years. Look at the price
of the Schulmp and he makes the hub himself, we would have to outsource
the design(internal geared hubs are beyond my design experience) and
manufactoring.

Precisely! What would you say to simply adding a jackshaft tab to the
right leg, such that if anyone wanted to pursue a geared wheel, at
least the frame would be ready to accept a simple gearing jackshaft.
Such a bracket would have no effect on the stock direct-drive wheel.
It would add maybe an ounce and cost a few cents.

--
unisk8r
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new_coker said:

Many of you are suggesting a geared Big One but just as many want the
price to stay the same or be less.
The idea of a geared Big One sounds awsome but I don't think many would
pay the 1000 plus dollars that it would cost. To get a internally
geared hub made I would need to have 500 or more made and that is about
the number of Big Ones that we sell in three years. Look at the price
of the Schulmp and he makes the hub himself, we would have to outsource
the design(internal geared hubs are beyond my design experience) and
manufactoring.

Precisely! What would you say to simply adding a jackshaft tab to the
right leg, such that if anyone wanted to pursue a geared wheel, at
least the frame would be ready to accept a simple gearing jackshaft.
Such a bracket would have no effect on the stock direct-drive wheel.
It would add maybe an ounce and cost a few cents.

--
unisk8r
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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thieum said:

I'm just reprating what's been written but a geared lighter 36 incher
could be wicked, Schlumpf sells the wheelset+frame, but it would be
nice to get a 36 guni off the shelf.
It would be nice to get standard strong arm rests and a set of optional
supporting rods for light equipment at the back.

All Schlumpf are bespoke to some extent because they are all such a
specialised item. The selling is set up this way, it is not a problem
for the retailer. We are trying to keep some of the parts in stock to
have a quick turn around, but people keep on buying them! Just give me
a call and we can sort it out for you.

I have just been out on mine! is it certainly fast... although I need
to put the 110 cranks on it to get the proper effect. :-D

Roger

--
rogeratunicycledotcom

++++++++++++++++++
Unicycle.com in the UK
The UK's Unicycle Source
www.unicycle.uk.com
+++++++++++++++++++
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thieum said:

I'm just reprating what's been written but a geared lighter 36 incher
could be wicked, Schlumpf sells the wheelset+frame, but it would be
nice to get a 36 guni off the shelf.
It would be nice to get standard strong arm rests and a set of optional
supporting rods for light equipment at the back.

All Schlumpf are bespoke to some extent because they are all such a
specialised item. The selling is set up this way, it is not a problem
for the retailer. We are trying to keep some of the parts in stock to
have a quick turn around, but people keep on buying them! Just give me
a call and we can sort it out for you.

I have just been out on mine! is it certainly fast... although I need
to put the 110 cranks on it to get the proper effect. :-D

Roger

--
rogeratunicycledotcom

++++++++++++++++++
Unicycle.com in the UK
The UK's Unicycle Source
www.unicycle.uk.com
+++++++++++++++++++
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I am not the tallest person in the world, but I guess I may be some
where near 50 persentile for riders who may be interested in riding a
Coker. This being a mixture of male/female and teenagers.

So I may be the shortest person who could ride a 40" with 150mm cranks
as the seat would be butting up against seatpost clamp. I would not be
able to ride a 42" at all unless I fitted shorter cranks. If you
fitted an airsaddle, that would also stop me riding it.

So if you produce a 42" unicycle with a standard design frame less that
50% of potential customers would not be able to ride it.

Suggest that a new frame design needs to be considered for the bigger
wheel.

Roger

--
rogeratunicycledotcom

++++++++++++++++++
Unicycle.com in the UK
The UK's Unicycle Source
www.unicycle.uk.com
+++++++++++++++++++
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I am not the tallest person in the world, but I guess I may be some
where near 50 persentile for riders who may be interested in riding a
Coker. This being a mixture of male/female and teenagers.

So I may be the shortest person who could ride a 40" with 150mm cranks
as the seat would be butting up against seatpost clamp. I would not be
able to ride a 42" at all unless I fitted shorter cranks. If you
fitted an airsaddle, that would also stop me riding it.

So if you produce a 42" unicycle with a standard design frame less that
50% of potential customers would not be able to ride it.

Suggest that a new frame design needs to be considered for the bigger
wheel.

Roger

--
rogeratunicycledotcom

++++++++++++++++++
Unicycle.com in the UK
The UK's Unicycle Source
www.unicycle.uk.com
+++++++++++++++++++
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new_coker said:

Many of you are suggesting a geared Big One but just as many want the
price to stay the same or be less.

The idea of a geared Big One sounds awsome but I don't think many would
pay the 1000 plus dollars that it would cost. To get a internally
geared hub made I would need to have 500 or more made and that is about
the number of Big Ones that we sell in three years. Look at the price
of the Schulmp and he makes the hub himself, we would have to outsource
the design(internal geared hubs are beyond my design experience) and
manufactoring.

I agree entirely. The argument that lead to the development of
practical geared unicycles (does that make any sense?) was that a
larger pneumatic tire and high quality, lightweight wheel could not (or
would not) be built. Geared unicycles are less smooth riding, less
stable, and less ominous looking than big wheels. They are also
SUBSTANTIALLY more twitchy, more complicated, more expensive, and more
fragile. They take more energy and concentration to ride. *I will
gladly give you the design for an internally fixed geared hub for free*
but it would tremendously increase the cost of a unicycle that you are
trying to make available at a reasonable price to what would be a
larger market. It's just not cost effective.

Where would one put a 42, 44, or 48 inch unicycle? I would put it in my
pickup truck if I needed to move it somewhere. But I'm not a student on
a limited budget and I have a pickup truck. However, transportation of
such an object is not the biggest problem. Afterall, the object itself
is transportation.

--
harper

-Greg Harper

B L U E S H I F T

*jc is the only main man. there can be no other.*

This is still my nth post....*AWESOME!!!*
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new_coker said:

Many of you are suggesting a geared Big One but just as many want the
price to stay the same or be less.

The idea of a geared Big One sounds awsome but I don't think many would
pay the 1000 plus dollars that it would cost. To get a internally
geared hub made I would need to have 500 or more made and that is about
the number of Big Ones that we sell in three years. Look at the price
of the Schulmp and he makes the hub himself, we would have to outsource
the design(internal geared hubs are beyond my design experience) and
manufactoring.

I agree entirely. The argument that lead to the development of
practical geared unicycles (does that make any sense?) was that a
larger pneumatic tire and high quality, lightweight wheel could not (or
would not) be built. Geared unicycles are less smooth riding, less
stable, and less ominous looking than big wheels. They are also
SUBSTANTIALLY more twitchy, more complicated, more expensive, and more
fragile. They take more energy and concentration to ride. *I will
gladly give you the design for an internally fixed geared hub for free*
but it would tremendously increase the cost of a unicycle that you are
trying to make available at a reasonable price to what would be a
larger market. It's just not cost effective.

Where would one put a 42, 44, or 48 inch unicycle? I would put it in my
pickup truck if I needed to move it somewhere. But I'm not a student on
a limited budget and I have a pickup truck. However, transportation of
such an object is not the biggest problem. Afterall, the object itself
is transportation.

--
harper

-Greg Harper

B L U E S H I F T

*jc is the only main man. there can be no other.*

This is still my nth post....*AWESOME!!!*
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Checkernuts said:

The current hub has a nut holding the cranks on I believe. This is no
good, it should be a bolt at least...

I am going to second this emotion.

I had a bad experience with a Coker wheel when the nut came loose
during a ride. As the crank started it's "death wobbles" before coming
off the hub, it managed to pry the nut against the hub's threads,
effectively mangling them into uselessness. There was no possibility
of fixing the threads, so I had to replace the hub.

Had this been a bolt that came loose, I'd just have to replace the
bolt.

I believe part of the reason why the nut came loose was because it
wasn't threaded on very far. Unless someone has a 20-ton press sitting
around to help install the cranks, they're going to rely on the bolt /
nut for providing the requisite pressure. In the case of the current
Coker hub, one can't hand-thread the nut on 1/2 turn then start
applying massive amounts of torque... they'll kill the threads!

Please, please lose the "screwy" hub and follow the UDC design! We
loves our bolts!

--
maestro8

Those are my principles. If you don't like those, I have others. --
Groucho Marx
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Checkernuts said:

The current hub has a nut holding the cranks on I believe. This is no
good, it should be a bolt at least...

I am going to second this emotion.

I had a bad experience with a Coker wheel when the nut came loose
during a ride. As the crank started it's "death wobbles" before coming
off the hub, it managed to pry the nut against the hub's threads,
effectively mangling them into uselessness. There was no possibility
of fixing the threads, so I had to replace the hub.

Had this been a bolt that came loose, I'd just have to replace the
bolt.

I believe part of the reason why the nut came loose was because it
wasn't threaded on very far. Unless someone has a 20-ton press sitting
around to help install the cranks, they're going to rely on the bolt /
nut for providing the requisite pressure. In the case of the current
Coker hub, one can't hand-thread the nut on 1/2 turn then start
applying massive amounts of torque... they'll kill the threads!

Please, please lose the "screwy" hub and follow the UDC design! We
loves our bolts!

--
maestro8

Those are my principles. If you don't like those, I have others. --
Groucho Marx
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Checkernuts said:

Am I the only one wondering where you are going to put a 40-46" unicycle
wheel? It wont fit in most cars, shipping is going to be horrible and
If you think the flywheel effect is noticable on a 36 wait till you
have the weight of another 4-10" of tire in there + rim + spokes. It
cant see it being that easy to turn or stop.

Storing/transporting a bigger wheel:
A 40" Tom Miller big wheel fits in the back seat of an (old) VW Beetle.
That means it fits through the door. A 45" does not, hence this
arrangement:
http://www.unicycling.com/garage/bigwheel.htm

So I replaced that car (for various reasons) with a Subaru wagon. It
fits in there fine. But yes, it's big and will take up more space, both
in the car and where stored. But it's also very visually big, which is
the appeal of it.

Shipping:
Shipping could be a problem once you go beyond a certain size, and this
is worth researching to factor in to such a project.

Riding/turning/stopping:
I've ridden 32", 36", 40", 45", 48" 50" 56" and 63" unicycles. You get
what you pay for. Today's Coker *does not* ride like a 24", no matter
what your skills or crank length. The same will be true as you go
bigger. But on my 45" I can ride backwards, do frontspins, backspins,
spins, pirouettes, one foot, seat out and even wheel walk. The thing is
very rideable, but at the same time you do have to be cautious on a
crowded sidewalk, for instance. The flywheel effect, while bad for
emergency stops, is the thing that makes large-wheel unicycles so easy
to ride for miles and miles without stopping or falling. It's the main
difference between them and smaller wheels with gearing.

Geared unicycles are cool, but at the present time they're way too
expensive for Coker to worry about as a production item. Same goes for
a frame mod to accommodate them. For the <1% of owners that would do
this, an aftermarket add-on will be necessary. Sorry.

I agree with Checkernuts and others that the hub should change to a
bolt design. It seems the nut design is old-school; it's hard to even
find replacement nuts in bike shops these days. The UDC wide hub is a
bolted version, I think.

Quoted message said:

Alot of you say you would get a 43" wheel would you actually? I know I
wouldnt and I'd rather get a geared 29er.

You mean *two* 43" wheels instead of *one* geared 29er, right? 🙂 Put
me at the top of the list for a larger-wheel Coker. I'd love to own the
first production model. I will always be the proud owner of Tom
Miller's big wheel #30, and used to own #20 as well.

rogeratunicycle.com said:

So I may be the shortest person who could ride a 40" with 150mm cranks
as the seat would be butting up against seatpost clamp. I would not be
able to ride a 42" at all unless I fitted shorter cranks. If you fitted
an airsaddle, that would also stop me riding it.

So if you produce a 42" unicycle with a standard design frame less that
50% of potential customers would not be able to ride it.

Roger knows his stuff. He's been selling (and making) unicycles for
many years. He made my carbon fiber MUni. But I don't know that I agree
with his 50%. Nobody is a potential customer if they can't fit the
cycle, are they? Or maybe that's not fair, maybe that's tall-person
attitude. But yes, the chosen size of a larger wheel must be a balance
between how many people can fit it, while not being too close to the
existing 36" size. To go only to 40", for example, is not much of a
difference and would not attract current owners to upgrade. I think 42"
is a good target, and am willing to help with ideas to keep the seat
down low if you're interested.

--
johnfoss

John Foss
"jfoss" at "unicycling.com" -- www.unicycling.com
-----------------------------------------------

"Idiot America—where fact is merely that which enough people believe,
and truth is measured only by how fervently they believe it." --
Charles Pierce, in Esquire Magazine
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Checkernuts said:

Am I the only one wondering where you are going to put a 40-46" unicycle
wheel? It wont fit in most cars, shipping is going to be horrible and
If you think the flywheel effect is noticable on a 36 wait till you
have the weight of another 4-10" of tire in there + rim + spokes. It
cant see it being that easy to turn or stop.

Storing/transporting a bigger wheel:
A 40" Tom Miller big wheel fits in the back seat of an (old) VW Beetle.
That means it fits through the door. A 45" does not, hence this
arrangement:
http://www.unicycling.com/garage/bigwheel.htm

So I replaced that car (for various reasons) with a Subaru wagon. It
fits in there fine. But yes, it's big and will take up more space, both
in the car and where stored. But it's also very visually big, which is
the appeal of it.

Shipping:
Shipping could be a problem once you go beyond a certain size, and this
is worth researching to factor in to such a project.

Riding/turning/stopping:
I've ridden 32", 36", 40", 45", 48" 50" 56" and 63" unicycles. You get
what you pay for. Today's Coker *does not* ride like a 24", no matter
what your skills or crank length. The same will be true as you go
bigger. But on my 45" I can ride backwards, do frontspins, backspins,
spins, pirouettes, one foot, seat out and even wheel walk. The thing is
very rideable, but at the same time you do have to be cautious on a
crowded sidewalk, for instance. The flywheel effect, while bad for
emergency stops, is the thing that makes large-wheel unicycles so easy
to ride for miles and miles without stopping or falling. It's the main
difference between them and smaller wheels with gearing.

Geared unicycles are cool, but at the present time they're way too
expensive for Coker to worry about as a production item. Same goes for
a frame mod to accommodate them. For the <1% of owners that would do
this, an aftermarket add-on will be necessary. Sorry.

I agree with Checkernuts and others that the hub should change to a
bolt design. It seems the nut design is old-school; it's hard to even
find replacement nuts in bike shops these days. The UDC wide hub is a
bolted version, I think.

Quoted message said:

Alot of you say you would get a 43" wheel would you actually? I know I
wouldnt and I'd rather get a geared 29er.

You mean *two* 43" wheels instead of *one* geared 29er, right? 🙂 Put
me at the top of the list for a larger-wheel Coker. I'd love to own the
first production model. I will always be the proud owner of Tom
Miller's big wheel #30, and used to own #20 as well.

rogeratunicycle.com said:

So I may be the shortest person who could ride a 40" with 150mm cranks
as the seat would be butting up against seatpost clamp. I would not be
able to ride a 42" at all unless I fitted shorter cranks. If you fitted
an airsaddle, that would also stop me riding it.

So if you produce a 42" unicycle with a standard design frame less that
50% of potential customers would not be able to ride it.

Roger knows his stuff. He's been selling (and making) unicycles for
many years. He made my carbon fiber MUni. But I don't know that I agree
with his 50%. Nobody is a potential customer if they can't fit the
cycle, are they? Or maybe that's not fair, maybe that's tall-person
attitude. But yes, the chosen size of a larger wheel must be a balance
between how many people can fit it, while not being too close to the
existing 36" size. To go only to 40", for example, is not much of a
difference and would not attract current owners to upgrade. I think 42"
is a good target, and am willing to help with ideas to keep the seat
down low if you're interested.

--
johnfoss

John Foss
"jfoss" at "unicycling.com" -- www.unicycling.com
-----------------------------------------------

"Idiot America—where fact is merely that which enough people believe,
and truth is measured only by how fervently they believe it." --
Charles Pierce, in Esquire Magazine
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unisk8r said:

Precisely! What would you say to simply adding a jackshaft tab to the
right leg, such that if anyone wanted to pursue a geared wheel, at
least the frame would be ready to accept a simple gearing jackshaft.
Such a bracket would have no effect on the stock direct-drive wheel.
It would add maybe an ounce and cost a few cents.

I know the tabs could be added very easy and cheaply but on the
manufactoring side there is something else that I have to deal,
Lawyers!!

If we put the tabs on there we are making it possible for you to gear
the uni to go as fast as you can get it going. So when Joe Smoe adds a
jack shaft and gears it up with a 2 to 1 and gets going some to some
insane amount of speed and can't stop and he goes through a window of a
coffee shop down the street! So as he is lying in a bed in the hospital
a lawyer comes into his room and convices him he can sue and be set for
life.

I know that sounds like a far fetched story but I have worked in law
offices and I know that they have someone that keeps track of stories
in the news and sends someone to see the person to try to get them sue.
Oh, trust me a guy going through a window on a geared 36 inch wheeled
unicycle would make the news.

--
new_coker
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unisk8r said:

Precisely! What would you say to simply adding a jackshaft tab to the
right leg, such that if anyone wanted to pursue a geared wheel, at
least the frame would be ready to accept a simple gearing jackshaft.
Such a bracket would have no effect on the stock direct-drive wheel.
It would add maybe an ounce and cost a few cents.

I know the tabs could be added very easy and cheaply but on the
manufactoring side there is something else that I have to deal,
Lawyers!!

If we put the tabs on there we are making it possible for you to gear
the uni to go as fast as you can get it going. So when Joe Smoe adds a
jack shaft and gears it up with a 2 to 1 and gets going some to some
insane amount of speed and can't stop and he goes through a window of a
coffee shop down the street! So as he is lying in a bed in the hospital
a lawyer comes into his room and convices him he can sue and be set for
life.

I know that sounds like a far fetched story but I have worked in law
offices and I know that they have someone that keeps track of stories
in the news and sends someone to see the person to try to get them sue.
Oh, trust me a guy going through a window on a geared 36 inch wheeled
unicycle would make the news.

--
new_coker
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Checkernuts said:

The current hub has a nut holding the cranks on I believe. This is no
good, it should be a bolt at least, you know the width issue and it
looks like thats being addressed.

Amen, brother. The new UDC 100mm wide I believe uses crank bolts, not
nuts. The old, narrower version certainly had those nasty crank nuts.

Maestro8 picked up on that? I thought he slept at a terminal mostly.

maestro8 said:

I am going to second this emotion.
Unless someone has a 20-ton press sitting around to help install the
cranks, they're going to rely on the bolt / nut for providing the
requisite pressure.

I do. It's my right hand grip.

--
harper

-Greg Harper

B L U E S H I F T

*jc is the only main man. there can be no other.*

This is still my nth post....*AWESOME!!!*
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Checkernuts said:

The current hub has a nut holding the cranks on I believe. This is no
good, it should be a bolt at least, you know the width issue and it
looks like thats being addressed.

Amen, brother. The new UDC 100mm wide I believe uses crank bolts, not
nuts. The old, narrower version certainly had those nasty crank nuts.

Maestro8 picked up on that? I thought he slept at a terminal mostly.

maestro8 said:

I am going to second this emotion.
Unless someone has a 20-ton press sitting around to help install the
cranks, they're going to rely on the bolt / nut for providing the
requisite pressure.

I do. It's my right hand grip.

--
harper

-Greg Harper

B L U E S H I F T

*jc is the only main man. there can be no other.*

This is still my nth post....*AWESOME!!!*
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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new_coker said:

I know the tabs could be added very easy and cheaply but on the
manufactoring side there is something else that I have to deal,
Lawyers!!... Oh, trust me a guy going through a window on a geared 36
inch wheeled unicycle would make the news.

If you put them on, with a little warning sticker by them, you could
probably get away with it. Also maybe you could hook up with UDC and
have them build the geared, or splined ones to order. That way they
could just throw them together using spare bits, if anyone is willing
to pay the price.

And just so you know I found that story hilarious.

I just thought of something for the cranks too. these ones only cost
$30 and they seem really solid, and they wouldn't have the nut/bolt
problem.[image: http://www.danscomp.com/products/CRANKS/451052.jpg]

--
koebwil
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