Wrong to confront?

5 Sep 2004 19:04:44 GMT, <[email hidden]>,

Ray Heindl said:

Zoot Katz said:

In some areas of town I say "Gucci, Gucci" figuring that's more
recognizable than "ding ding".

Ever get slapped by someone thinking you'd said "hootchy-kootchy"?

No, but I've gotten the dollar-forty-nine look saying "Prada Prada".
--
zk

Badger_South wrote:
|| On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 21:10:35 GMT, the black rose
|| <[email hidden]> wrote:
||
||| The last time I rode on the local rail-trail, I almost got creamed
||| by some little kid coming head-on on a BMX, weaving in and out of
||| the wrong side of the trail, not looking where he was going. His
||| mother was screaming at him to get out of my way, and he was
||| totally not paying any attention to her, either.
|||
||| Their dog was behaving, though.
|||
||| This taught me that it's probably a better idea not to ride down the
||| rail-trail at all. I haven't been back.
|||
||| -km
||
|| I get this kind of thing every day. One kid was riding down the
|| trail with his eyes closed. His mom was looking behind her trying to
|| tell her other kid where to throw some trash, weaving all over the
|| trail.
||
|| Today a kid jumps out into the middle of the trail and puts his arms
|| out as though to make me run into him. I brandish a fist and he runs
|| off into the woods laughing and shouting 'gonna hit me?, gonna hit
|| me?'.
||
|| Yesterday I had to fend off some dog by interposing my bike, four
|| times, after finishing my ride. The dog was probably being friendly,
|| but I had on my bike shorts and did not want my legs scraped by his
|| claws jumping on me. The owner, to her credit runs up and says 'oh,
|| sorry he's just being friendly'. I said 'well if you can't keep him
|| from charging people, you need to keep him on the leash, and it -is-
|| leash day'. She replies 'oh, it's not my dog, I'm just sitting him'.
|| Well, lady, then you don't know his behavior so how can you trust
|| him off the leash?
||
|| Last week I'm riding down a long, gentle downhill, and about 100 yds
|| ahead of me two old ladies are walking with a dog off the leash. One
|| of the women starts _screaming_ like she's being murdered! Somehow,
|| I apparently startled her from 100yds away. That really ruined my
|| day. I kept waiting for the cops to show up and accuse me of giving
|| her some kind of a stroke - all just by riding my bike.
||
|| It's always something. I try to ignore and blow it off as much as
|| possible. I guess it beats risking being clobbered by a one-ton
|| metal box - but not by much. ;-)
||

Damn!

"VBadJuJu" <none@> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Luigi de Guzman said:

(no great Leninist oneliners
spring as quickly to mind).

snip "A lie told often enough becomes the truth."

sadly poignant...

~ ~
(-) (-)

Quoted message said:

(-)

In article <xet_c.4877$aW5.2930@fed1read07>,

Luigi de Guzman said:

"The Eight Points for Attention are as follows:
(1) Speak politely.
(2) Pay fairly for what you buy.
(3) Return everything you borrow.
(4) Pay for anything you damage.
(5) Don't hit or swear at people.
(6) Don't damage crops.
(7) Don't take liberties with women.
(8) Don't ill-treat captives. "

Thanx for reminding me to watch 'Trailer Park Boys' on
television tonight. The show's formula is to amusingly
break each one of those points.

cheers,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

Quoted message said:

"dreaded" [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

snip "A lie told often enough becomes the truth."

sadly poignant...

And unfortunately true on BOTH ends of the political spectrum.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

"Hunrobe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"dreaded" [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

snip "A lie told often enough becomes the truth."

sadly poignant...

And unfortunately true on BOTH ends of the political spectrum.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

universal...yes on both sides and even on the sides that go all the way
around to the other side...
-a

Quoted message said:

I dont believe it. Really? Damn, that's strange. I
suspect you may be confusing the legality of riding on
the far left of the left lane of one ways (a law
common to many cities including NYC and Seattle) with
a legal requirement to use the left lane.

It's possible I've got it wrong (I did look at the DC code).

It pretty much states that if you intend to turn left you should
be in the left lane, and specifically references one way streets.

But I grant that what I read doesn't say you HAVE to be there,
which I implied. I could have sworn I read that somewhere, oh well.

Regardless, either side appears to be legal on a one way, but I
had no obligation to either change lanes or squeeze into the door zone
because she was blowing her horn.

It's like this. She was aggressing, not because she was right but
because she could. And she expected to get away with it.

--

_______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________
------------------"Buddy Holly, the Texas Elvis"------------------
__________306.350.357.38>>[email hidden]__________

Politically Incorrect, but fitting smart-aleck response.

Verbal query, "The horn blows. Does the driver?"😉

Badger_South said:

On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 18:10:33 -0400, Luigi de Guzman <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Badger_South said:

Last week I'm riding down a long, gentle downhill, and about 100 yds ahead
of me two old ladies are walking with a dog off the leash. One of the
women starts _screaming_ like she's being murdered! Somehow, I apparently
startled her from 100yds away. That really ruined my day. I kept waiting
for the cops to show up and accuse me of giving her some kind of a stroke
- all just by riding my bike.

[...snip...]

At about 100 to 200 feet, I start clicking the left brake, and keep it up
as I get to them, giving a doppler-like effect. Some people hear it but
just keep walking, at which point I hollar 'bike up', and -most- of the
time they look, but some ppl still seem startled as though they've just
seen a bike for the first time in their lives. Hell, maybe I should start
hollaring 'Bigfoot!'

Many don't look, don't move, and I then have to momentarily track-stand and
say 'may I get through?' A few times, I've had to get off the bike and
force my way, gently, through the throng. ;-(

MUPs suck if you want to get in a "serious" ride..

MUPs suck *hard* if you want to get in a "serious" ride.

Politicians who promote MUPs as part of transportation
infrastructure are [censored].

Bicycle advocates who promote MUPs as part of transportation
infrastructure are idiots.

MUPs are great for taking my six-year-old out someplace where he
(in his lack of knowledge of road safety, and his six-year-old
cantankerousness) won't get squashed. He rides a lot more slowly than
I do when I'm alone, though. Even still, we teach him to stay on the
right, and to warn other MUP users that he's coming, and to tell them
what side he's passing on ("Passing left!"😉.

By far, for transportation or for exercise, I prefer wide, paved,
clean road shoulders. When I can't get those, way-back-roads will do,
and I take the right tire track when there's lots of visibility for
cars to pass, or the whole lane when there isn't.

--
Chris BeHanna
Software Engineer (Remove "allspammersmustdie" before responding.)
[email hidden]
I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs.

Zoot Katz said:

[...tale of a car-driving idiot snipped...]

Sorry I don't remember who said it, but I like it: "empty boats".

I posted that, as learned from another author on rec.running.

Quoted message said:

(. . . among the scuds)

Heh.

Fortunately, the
teenage-girls-yelling-encouragement-to-[censored]-pickup-truck-driver
ratio around here is well in excess of unity.

--
Chris BeHanna
Software Engineer (Remove "allspammersmustdie" before responding.)
[email hidden]
I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs.

Frank Krygowski said:

???

He said he was doing the speed limit. Are you claiming that he
shouldn't be allowed to use an unclogged lane because he wasn't breaking
the speed limit? Sorry, that makes no sense to me.

In this case, either Eric could not keep up with the flow of traffic
in the left lane, or the fulfillment of church lady's wish to have him
removed from the left lane would have resulted in no discernible
benefit for her. EITHER WAY, it behooves Eric to slide momentarily to
the right (or to the far left to share the left lane, as is legal) to
let the squacking bird pass. Law of diminishing returns. Instead of
having a big production and explaining angrily to her why she's acting
foolish, simply show her with a quick move on the bike.

The problem with this is it's too easy, and would deny some riders the
level of confrontation they crave.

Quoted message said:

There's no reason a
bicycle (i.e. a legal vehicle) has to wait until all other traffic
clears before proceeding.

No reason? Of course there are scenarios where a bicyclist would be
better off waiting until all other traffic clears. Do you have a
psychological problem with doing so?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And what's with this passive-aggressive
pretending to write down license plate
numbers? Very disappointed to hear you
pulling that one. I don't want to hear about
any more cyclists pulling that [censored].
It's embarrassing.

That sounds like Fabrizio talking. Except we know not to take Fabrizio
seriously.

About the "writing down" the plate number: that _can_ work. I think
it's a good idea.

Writing down a plate number of someone who has actually harmed you or
attempted to harm you, to give the number to the police, or
alternately to track the [censored] down and terrorize them like DeNiro
in Cape Fear, is one thing. Pretending to write down a plate number of
a garden variety road rager to make them think you might take the
number to the police, as if you had some reason to go to the police,
as if the police wouldn't just laugh in your face, is sad. There are
so many layers of weasel there that it's hard to sort out.

Quoted message said:

But about Eric's actions in the "confrontation": As I read it, he did
_not_ threaten the biddies with the lock; he hung it on his handlebar as
he walked his bike up to them. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) That's not
threatening at all.

More passive-aggressive action. Eric pulls his jacket back to reveal a
..45 in a shoulder holster (it's actually a water gun). Hey, he's not
threatening. Eric caresses the blade of his saber and giggles
maniacally. No intimidation intended though.

Quoted message said:

He did take a risk, but IMO that's up to him. I'm not in favor of
society getting so paranoid that nobody ever calls anybody on their
boorish behavior.

Hey I agree. Let's call the boors out. But let's accept a little
responsibility for our own actions. If we call people names and spit
on their cars, let's not sue when they kick our asses in the street,
ok? People who can't defend themselves shouldn't go around physically
challenging strangers. And let's appreciate the flashing of the u-lock
for what it is: a threat with a potentially deadly weapon. You flash
your lock at the wrong church lady and you might find yourself eating
it. And if you're going to actually swing that sucker, you'd better
have a damn good reason, and you'd better make it count, the first
time.

Quoted message said:

If I have a problem with what Eric did, it's just this: He would have
been more effective if he had kept fiercely calm as he spoke to them.

Fiercely calm? I don't know what that means and I don't think I want
to know. You're freaking me out man. Fierce Calm would be a good name
for the next deNiro movie. Has it been used yet?

Eric would have been more effective if he had slashed their tires or
bashed a side window with his lock. Eric would have been more
effective if he had given both ladies a wet kiss on the cheek and
coupons for a free smoothie.

He would have been most effective if he had simply shrugged them off
and kept riding.

Robert

Mon, 06 Sep 2004 05:58:44 GMT,
<[email hidden]>,

Chris BeHanna said:

Quoted message said:

Sorry I don't remember who said it, but I like it: "empty boats".

I posted that, as learned from another author on rec.running.

Cool. You said:

Quoted message said:

If you were canoeing, and an empty boat drifted across your path,
it wouldn't make any sense to get angry at it.

It makes no more sense to get angry at road raging morons than it
does to yell at an empty boat.

Just repeat to yourself, "Empty boat."

It resounded in a sorta zen way. Thanks. It works for me.

Google hit these with two slightly differnt takes on the concept.

http://kr.buddhism.org/zen/koan/John_McRae.htm
"Fa-ju, who was unique among Hung-jen's students for spending so many
years with the master, is described as having unique abilities in his
interactions with his students, so that he could remonstrate them
strongly without incurring resentment. His anger is described as two
empty boats hitting each other in the middle of a lake, which I take
to mean having a hollow sound that signified an absence of attachment
or resistance."

======/
http://www.uua.org/uubf/sangv4n2.htm
"A woman is enjoying herself in a boat on a river one early morning.
She sees another boat coming down the river toward her. At first it
seems so nice to her, that someone else is enjoying the river on a
nice, spring morning. Then she realizes that the boat is coming right
toward her, faster and faster. She begins to get upset and starts to
yell, "Hey, HEY–watch out! For goodness sake, turn aside!" But the
boat just comes faster and faster, right toward her. By this time,
she's standing up in the boat, causing it to pitch violently side to
side, yelling at the top of her lungs and waving her arms in the air.
The other boat crashes right into her. Then she sees that it's an
empty boat.

There are a lot of empty boats that we get ourselves all worked up
about. They are things small or imagined that cause us to sweat, yell,
and brace ourselves for their terrible impact. They are the empty
boats that are the smaller tragedies of our lives. Tragic, because,
small or imagined dangers begin to take up a big part of precious
thought and energy–away from the more important things. What a waste
of the present moment that can be."
--
zk

Mon, 06 Sep 2004 05:58:44 GMT,
<[email hidden]>,

Chris BeHanna said:

Quoted message said:

Sorry I don't remember who said it, but I like it: "empty boats".

I posted that, as learned from another author on rec.running.

Cool. You said:

Quoted message said:

If you were canoeing, and an empty boat drifted across your path,
it wouldn't make any sense to get angry at it.

It makes no more sense to get angry at road raging morons than it
does to yell at an empty boat.

Just repeat to yourself, "Empty boat."

It resounded in a sorta zen way. Thanks. It works for me.

Google hit these with two slightly differnt takes on the concept.

http://kr.buddhism.org/zen/koan/John_McRae.htm
"Fa-ju, who was unique among Hung-jen's students for spending so many
years with the master, is described as having unique abilities in his
interactions with his students, so that he could remonstrate them
strongly without incurring resentment. His anger is described as two
empty boats hitting each other in the middle of a lake, which I take
to mean having a hollow sound that signified an absence of attachment
or resistance."

======/
http://www.uua.org/uubf/sangv4n2.htm
"A woman is enjoying herself in a boat on a river one early morning.
She sees another boat coming down the river toward her. At first it
seems so nice to her, that someone else is enjoying the river on a
nice, spring morning. Then she realizes that the boat is coming right
toward her, faster and faster. She begins to get upset and starts to
yell, "Hey, HEY–watch out! For goodness sake, turn aside!" But the
boat just comes faster and faster, right toward her. By this time,
she's standing up in the boat, causing it to pitch violently side to
side, yelling at the top of her lungs and waving her arms in the air.
The other boat crashes right into her. Then she sees that it's an
empty boat.

There are a lot of empty boats that we get ourselves all worked up
about. They are things small or imagined that cause us to sweat, yell,
and brace ourselves for their terrible impact. They are the empty
boats that are the smaller tragedies of our lives. Tragic, because,
small or imagined dangers begin to take up a big part of precious
thought and energy–away from the more important things. What a waste
of the present moment that can be."
--
zk

Mon, 6 Sep 2004 15:48:35 +1000,
<[email hidden]>, SpearSlinger1

Quoted message said:

Politically Incorrect, but fitting smart-aleck response.

Verbal query, "The horn blows. Does the driver?"😉

Perhaps another instance for AirZound.
Leave her pass. Let it rip. Watch _her_ jump.
--
zk

Mon, 6 Sep 2004 15:48:35 +1000,
<[email hidden]>, SpearSlinger1

Quoted message said:

Politically Incorrect, but fitting smart-aleck response.

Verbal query, "The horn blows. Does the driver?"😉

Perhaps another instance for AirZound.
Leave her pass. Let it rip. Watch _her_ jump.
--
zk

Quoted message said:

He would have been most effective if he had simply shrugged them off
and kept riding

He disagrees. Eric actually thinks he could have handled the scenario
more effectively with a .45.

However he would be in jail without the opportunity to reply.

--

_______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________
------------------"Buddy Holly, the Texas Elvis"------------------
__________306.350.357.38>>[email hidden]__________

Mon, 06 Sep 2004 04:26:31 -0400, <[email hidden]>,

Eric S. Sande said:

He disagrees. Eric actually thinks he could have handled the scenario
more effectively with a .45.

It's definitely got a chilling effect.
--
zk

Mon, 06 Sep 2004 04:26:31 -0400, <[email hidden]>,

Eric S. Sande said:

He disagrees. Eric actually thinks he could have handled the scenario
more effectively with a .45.

It's definitely got a chilling effect.
--
zk

Quoted message said:

It's definitely got a chilling effect.

A pair of chopsticks is as good as a .45, if you do not intend
to lock your bicycle.

--

_______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________
------------------"Buddy Holly, the Texas Elvis"------------------
__________306.350.357.38>>[email hidden]__________

Mon, 06 Sep 2004 05:58:44 GMT,
<[email hidden]>, Chris

BeHanna said:

I posted that, as learned from another author on rec.running.

Googled it.
Dealing with Interesting Days and Brushes with Death
© 1997 by Austin "Ozzie" Gontang, Ph.D.

To that end I have used Chuang Tzu's story tanslated by Thomas Merton
to help me in my life to avoid empty boats:

Chuang Tzu gave us a mindful way of dealing with out of control
people.

THE EMPTY BOAT
from The Way of Chuang Tzu by Thomas Merton, ©1965
New Direction Publishing Corporation

If a man is crossing a river
And an empty boat collides with his own skiff,
Even though he be a bad-tempered man
He will not become very angry.

But if he sees a man in the boat,
He will shout at him to steer clear.

If the shout is not heard, he will shout again,
And yet again, and begin cursing.
And all because there is somebody in the boat.
Yet if the boat were empty,
He would not be shouting and not angry.

If you can empty your own boat
Crossing the river of the world,
No one will oppose you,
No one will seek to harm you....

When I am confronted by reckless drivers, speeding skaters or bikers,
I simply avoid them and say to myself, "Empty boat."

Over the years, those two words have saved me from feeding anger,
aggression and violence-both mine and theirs.
--
zk