Wrong to confront?

R15757 said:

Eric S. Sande wrote:

<snip tale of woe>

Eric,

I thought you were a vet street rider. Is
getting honked at really that big of a deal
to necessitate that whole production?
Don't you have more important things to
worry about?

Also, if you're in the left lane and can't keep
up with the flow, you have a legal obligation to
move right, even if you don't like the delivery
vans, etc. in the right lane.

???

He said he was doing the speed limit. Are you claiming that he
shouldn't be allowed to use an unclogged lane because he wasn't breaking
the speed limit? Sorry, that makes no sense to me. There's no reason a
bicycle (i.e. a legal vehicle) has to wait until all other traffic
clears before proceeding.

Quoted message said:

And what's with this passive-aggressive
pretending to write down license plate
numbers? Very disappointed to hear you
pulling that one. I don't want to hear about
any more cyclists pulling that [censored].
It's embarrassing.

That sounds like Fabrizio talking. Except we know not to take Fabrizio
seriously.

About the "writing down" the plate number: that _can_ work. I think
it's a good idea.

But about Eric's actions in the "confrontation": As I read it, he did
_not_ threaten the biddies with the lock; he hung it on his handlebar as
he walked his bike up to them. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) That's not
threatening at all.

He did take a risk, but IMO that's up to him. I'm not in favor of
society getting so paranoid that nobody ever calls anybody on their
boorish behavior.

If I have a problem with what Eric did, it's just this: He would have
been more effective if he had kept fiercely calm as he spoke to them.

--
--------------------+
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

Quoted message said:

I think that's a perfect application for Halt. It will stop almost all
dogs. It doesn't hurt them for long, but it burns their eyes and nose
enough that they learn.

Careful with the halt though, It can get on you and sting!

DRS said:

Quoted message said:

I don't have a bell. Lately, though, I have taken to saying "DING!"
discreetly as I approach. It has the intended effect, and makes me
laugh at the silliness of it all.

Air horns work well. Nothing like 120dB to get pedestrians' attention.

Rather like using a sledgehammer to swat a fly.

=-Luigi

--
www.livejournal.com/users/ouij
Photos, Rants, Raves

On Sun, 5 Sep 2004 08:17:05 +1000, "DRS" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Luigi de Guzman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:S6r_c.4939$OZ6.2245@okepread06

Quoted message said:

Badger_South said:

Last week I'm riding down a long, gentle downhill, and about 100 yds
ahead of me two old ladies are walking with a dog off the leash. One
of the women starts _screaming_ like she's being murdered! Somehow,
I apparently startled her from 100yds away. That really ruined my
day. I kept waiting for the cops to show up and accuse me of giving
her some kind of a stroke - all just by riding my bike.

I don't have a bell. Lately, though, I have taken to saying "DING!"
discreetly as I approach. It has the intended effect, and makes me
laugh at the silliness of it all.

Air horns work well. Nothing like 120dB to get pedestrians' attention.

But dayum, they were facing me, and looking right at me at 125yds. At
100yds the shrieking began, and continued long after I passed. You'd think
I'd run over her foot or worse, the little dog.

-B

On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 18:10:33 -0400, Luigi de Guzman <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Badger_South said:

Last week I'm riding down a long, gentle downhill, and about 100 yds ahead
of me two old ladies are walking with a dog off the leash. One of the
women starts _screaming_ like she's being murdered! Somehow, I apparently
startled her from 100yds away. That really ruined my day. I kept waiting
for the cops to show up and accuse me of giving her some kind of a stroke
- all just by riding my bike.

I don't have a bell. Lately, though, I have taken to saying "DING!"
discreetly as I approach. It has the intended effect, and makes me laugh
at the silliness of it all.

-Luigi

At about 100 to 200 feet, I start clicking the left brake, and keep it up
as I get to them, giving a doppler-like effect. Some people hear it but
just keep walking, at which point I hollar 'bike up', and -most- of the
time they look, but some ppl still seem startled as though they've just
seen a bike for the first time in their lives. Hell, maybe I should start
hollaring 'Bigfoot!'

Many don't look, don't move, and I then have to momentarily track-stand and
say 'may I get through?' A few times, I've had to get off the bike and
force my way, gently, through the throng. ;-(

We must have a school for the virtually deaf in the area taking outings, I
sometimes think. ;-D

It's not like there aren't other bikes and rollerbladers and soforth using
the trail.

-B

"Luigi de Guzman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:f2s_c.4956$OZ6.886@okepread06

Quoted message said:

DRS said:

Quoted message said:

I don't have a bell. Lately, though, I have taken to saying "DING!"
discreetly as I approach. It has the intended effect, and makes me
laugh at the silliness of it all.

Air horns work well. Nothing like 120dB to get pedestrians'
attention.

Rather like using a sledgehammer to swat a fly.

In my experience a lot of people who blithely ignore a bicycle bell jump
several feet when they get blipped by an air horn. Ditto for cars. I don't
have to let it rip, a quick blip is usually enough. And they'd have to be
clinically deaf to ever claim they didn't hear it. My Air Zound is louder
than many car horns.

--

A: Top-posters.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

"Badger_South" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 5 Sep 2004 08:17:05 +1000, "DRS" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Luigi de Guzman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:S6r_c.4939$OZ6.2245@okepread06

Quoted message said:

Badger_South wrote:

> Last week I'm riding down a long, gentle downhill, and about 100
> yds ahead of me two old ladies are walking with a dog off the
> leash. One of the women starts _screaming_ like she's being
> murdered! Somehow, I apparently startled her from 100yds away.
> That really ruined my day. I kept waiting for the cops to show up
> and accuse me of giving her some kind of a stroke - all just by
> riding my bike.

I don't have a bell. Lately, though, I have taken to saying "DING!"
discreetly as I approach. It has the intended effect, and makes me
laugh at the silliness of it all.

Air horns work well. Nothing like 120dB to get pedestrians'
attention.

But dayum, they were facing me, and looking right at me at 125yds. At
100yds the shrieking began, and continued long after I passed. You'd
think I'd run over her foot or worse, the little dog.

Some things cannot be helped. I can't imagine any remedial action on your
part.

--

A: Top-posters.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

04 Sep 2004 20:54:00 GMT,
<[email hidden]>,

(Fx199) said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Of course I didn't have a pen.

Come on now, you can't memorize a license number if you want to?

Sure you can, but can you memorise two of them?

Had I had a pen I may have gotten the fleeing witness' plate number
too but I prioritised the one that actually hit me.
--
zk

Sat, 04 Sep 2004 18:47:38 -0400, <[email hidden]>,

Frank Krygowski said:

If I have a problem with what Eric did, it's just this: He would have
been more effective if he had kept fiercely calm as he spoke to them.

I got the impression that the window demonstration had him stiffling
his laughter while delivering his "road use lecture".
--
zk

Sat, 04 Sep 2004 18:10:33 -0400, <S6r_c.4939$OZ6.2245@okepread06>,

Luigi de Guzman said:

I don't have a bell. Lately, though, I have taken to saying "DING!"
discreetly as I approach. It has the intended effect, and makes me laugh
at the silliness of it all.

In some areas of town I say "Gucci, Gucci" figuring that's more
recognizable than "ding ding".
--
zk

DRS said:

Quoted message said:

Rather like using a sledgehammer to swat a fly.

In my experience a lot of people who blithely ignore a bicycle bell jump
several feet when they get blipped by an air horn. Ditto for cars. I
don't
have to let it rip, a quick blip is usually enough. And they'd have to be
clinically deaf to ever claim they didn't hear it. My Air Zound is louder
than many car horns.

I'm sure it is. But the question remains: do you really need to be that
loud all the time?

Most of the time, my warnings are heard and acknowledged without having to
resort to brutality. The louder shouts are usually accompanied by some
sort of evasive action on my part, and usually directed at people who
wouldn't be able to hear anyway--cars with loud stereos, earphone-wearing
ignorami, etc.

Resorting to maximum force in all situations cements in the minds of the
masses the image of the cyclist as an ill-humored, brutal scofflaw.

Perhaps we cyclists should adopt something like Chairman Mao's Eight Points
for Attention:

"The Eight Points for Attention are as follows:
(1) Speak politely.
(2) Pay fairly for what you buy.
(3) Return everything you borrow.
(4) Pay for anything you damage.
(5) Don't hit or swear at people.
(6) Don't damage crops.
(7) Don't take liberties with women.
(8) Don't ill-treat captives. "

[http://ptb.lashout.net/marx2mao/Mao/TMR47.html]

If it worked for the Eighth Route Army, maybe it might work in your
neighborhood.

-Luigi

--
www.livejournal.com/users/ouij
Photos, Rants, Raves

"Zippy the Pinhead" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

I used to see them coming up the driveway, then take a mouthful of
water, and when they got going on their spiel, I'd begin to slowly
drool the water onto the front of my shirt. When my mouth was empty,
I'd start talking to them in German. That usually got them going back
down the driveway with all deliberate haste.

A few years ago, I was in my driveway, brazing up a recumbent frame. These
two JW's making the rounds in the cul-de-sac. They got to the end of my
driveway, and saw a large black man, in military fatigues, wielding a torch,
with a grinder running, and various other power tools around.
They passed, and went to the next house.

A friend of mine used to tell them he was Church of Satan. With the
requisite evil grin. They usually did not hang around.

Pete

"Pete" <ptr@ThievingBastardsWorkAt_usaf.com> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Zippy the Pinhead" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

I used to see them coming up the driveway, then take a mouthful of
water, and when they got going on their spiel, I'd begin to slowly
drool the water onto the front of my shirt. When my mouth was empty,
I'd start talking to them in German. That usually got them going back
down the driveway with all deliberate haste.

A few years ago, I was in my driveway, brazing up a recumbent frame. These
two JW's making the rounds in the cul-de-sac. They got to the end of my
driveway, and saw a large black man, in military fatigues, wielding a

torch,

Quoted message said:

with a grinder running, and various other power tools around.
They passed, and went to the next house.

A friend of mine used to tell them he was Church of Satan. With the
requisite evil grin. They usually did not hang around.

Pete

last time they came to my house we engaged for some time and it was
interesting to discover that they think these days are the beginning of the
end and that GW is an agent of the antichrist.

Quoted message said:

I thought you were a vet street rider. Is getting honked at really
that big of a deal to necessitate that whole production? Don't you
have more important things to worry about?

Yes, I do. However she was riding my ass for a block and a half
honking continuously. With a clear lane to her right.

Quoted message said:

Also, if you're in the left lane and can't keep up with the flow,
you have a legal obligation to move right, even if you don't like
the delivery vans, etc. in the right lane.

One way street, Robert. In DC a bicycle is required to ride on the
left on a one way, believe it or not.

Quoted message said:

If you're into legal obligations.

Only casually.

Quoted message said:

And what's with this passive-aggressive pretending to write down
license plate numbers? Very disappointed to hear you pulling that
one. I don't want to hear about any more cyclists pulling that [censored].

It was better than the alternative.

Quoted message said:

It's embarrassing.

Yes it is.

--

_______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________
------------------"Buddy Holly, the Texas Elvis"------------------
__________306.350.357.38>>[email hidden]__________

On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 21:13:41 -0400, "Eric S. Sande" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I thought you were a vet street rider. Is getting honked at really
that big of a deal to necessitate that whole production? Don't you
have more important things to worry about?

Yes, I do. However she was riding my ass for a block and a half
honking continuously. With a clear lane to her right.

I think the cops can ticket a driver for excessive honking. Hah, you should
have done the 'cupped palm to ear' I-can't-hear-you maneuver and really
egged her on.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Also, if you're in the left lane and can't keep up with the flow,
you have a legal obligation to move right, even if you don't like
the delivery vans, etc. in the right lane.

One way street, Robert. In DC a bicycle is required to ride on the
left on a one way, believe it or not.

You mean on the driver's side edge...or do you mean in the left lane of a
two-laned one way? That's just crazy. ;-)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If you're into legal obligations.

Only casually.

Quoted message said:

And what's with this passive-aggressive pretending to write down
license plate numbers? Very disappointed to hear you pulling that
one. I don't want to hear about any more cyclists pulling that [censored].

It was better than the alternative.

Yeah, a meaner guy would've done the "make antenna into a pretzel" trick or
the "hand 'em their left wiperblade" trick. <g>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It's embarrassing.

Yes it is.

Well, in the future, we expect more of you. ;-D

-B

"Luigi de Guzman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:xet_c.4877$aW5.2930@fed1read07...

Quoted message said:

Perhaps we cyclists should adopt something like Chairman Mao's Eight

Points

Quoted message said:

for Attention:

"The Eight Points for Attention are as follows:
(1) Speak politely.
(2) Pay fairly for what you buy.
(3) Return everything you borrow.
(4) Pay for anything you damage.
(5) Don't hit or swear at people.
(6) Don't damage crops.
(7) Don't take liberties with women.
(8) Don't ill-treat captives. "

You left out number (9) Murder millions of your own people.

What's up with all this Chairman Mao stuff, btw?

Dave

"Badger_South" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 21:13:41 -0400, "Eric S. Sande" <[email hidden]>
wrote:

SNIP
You mean on the driver's side edge...or do you mean in the left lane of a
two-laned one way? That's just crazy. ;-)

SNIP>

the far left lane is a very different situation on a one-way esp if you
eventually plan on turning left.

-A

On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 22:37:17 -0400, "Eric S. Sande" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You mean on the driver's side edge...or do you mean in the left lane
of a two-laned one way? That's just crazy. ;-)

No, L Street is a five lane East bound one way urban arterial, to
get technical. Delivery and commuter access stacks on both sides
of the street. The DC bicycle regs state that if you're in this
[censored] on a bicycle and intend to turn left (which I do intend) you
should be in the leftmost travel lane.

Ah, of course. I used to go to DC a couple times a year and have run some
10K races there back in the day. Now, I'd never go there, even in a car.

Stay safe.

-B

In article <[email hidden]>,

Frank Krygowski said:

That sounds like Fabrizio talking. Except we know not to take Fabrizio
seriously.

Once in awhile he's precisely and concisely right on.

But then, even a broken clock is correct twice a day.

cheers,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

Quoted message said:

You mean on the driver's side edge...or do you mean in the left lane
of a two-laned one way? That's just crazy. ;-)

No, L Street is a five lane East bound one way urban arterial, to
get technical. Delivery and commuter access stacks on both sides
of the street. The DC bicycle regs state that if you're in this
[censored] on a bicycle and intend to turn left (which I do intend) you
should be in the leftmost travel lane.

--

_______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________
------------------"Buddy Holly, the Texas Elvis"------------------
__________306.350.357.38>>[email hidden]__________