vo2 max intervals.

flanman said:

The problem is getting to the last lap in good shape, near the front. CO fields are pretty stacked, no shortage of strong riders in Cat 4 who would do very well in cat 3.

There are too many frickin' sandbaggers around here, and I wish the ACA would endeavor to do something about it (especially on the TT side). It's demoralizing. :o

J\V said:

There are too many frickin' sandbaggers around here, and I wish the ACA would endeavor to do something about it (especially on the TT side). It's demoralizing. :o

What the hell is a sandbagger?

Hey guys I know this post is very old. There is a lot of talk about vo2max intervals as a relationship to FTP power.

Can anyone tell me what you would do a 5x5 (or whatever) interval in relationship to your best 5 minute all out effort (assuming this would be considered the top of your Vo2max power).

Quote:
Originally Posted by InPursuit [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

Hey guys I know this post is very old. There is a lot of talk about vo2max intervals as a relationship to FTP power.

Can anyone tell me what you would do a 5x5 (or whatever) interval in relationship to your best 5 minute all out effort (assuming this would be considered the top of your Vo2max power).

Let's see.... This is going to vary a bit across people, but a frequent recommendation is to do VO2max work at around 80% of MAP. MAP tends to be a bit higher than 5m power (I think), so a good starting point is probably about 85% of 5 min max.

That's just a guideline of course. Once you start doing the intervals you will quickly find out if it's too high or too low and can adjust it. Depending on how well trained you are I might start with around 4 intervals then work up to at least 6. I've done workouts with as many as 8.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by Roadie_scum [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

Quote:
Originally Posted by daveryanwyoming I guess we'll be beating this dead horse well into the next century, but it's highly unlikely that either your heart or your lungs are limiting your performance in any way. Heart stroke volume increases are one of the fastest and earliest adaptations to endurance training and if you've been riding with any regularity (gotta guess you have been if you're doing L5 intervals) then that particular adaptation has long since happened. And short of some serious respritory issues it's very unlikely that your lungs are a limiter.

The limiter is almost always in the working muscles themselves (your legs) and in the O2 transport (hence the incentive to blood dope) but not your lungs or your heart.
Dave I like 'most all of what you say all the time so sorry to quibble, but the heart is intimately connected with O2 transport. Peak cardiac output is a strong determinant of VO2max, which puts a ceiling on aerobic workload. (I'm sure you already know this... but it isn't evident from your phrasing).

More subtle:
(i) Early adaptation of a parameter (eg cardiac output) does not mean that parameter is not a limiter to exercise capacity.
(ii) Early adaptation is not the same as maximisation.

What he meant I guess is that early into one's aerobic capacity development, the main bottleneck is often muscle deoxygenation, not cardiac output.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by baker3 [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

Quote:
Originally Posted by JV [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG] There are too many frickin' sandbaggers around here, and I wish the ACA would endeavor to do something about it (especially on the TT side). It's demoralizing. [IMG]/img/vbsmilies/smilies/redface.gif[/IMG]
What the hell is a sandbagger?

Sandbagger (Noun): someone who lingers in a category for good results waaay after their upgrade is due.

Also, an accomplished rider who has let their licence expire and races against the 5's on a one-day licence... regularly.

This is interesting. I don't know what MAP is but I have done an all out 5 minute test . But this was a while ago. That being said, just by eyeing the #s, I could probably just barely complete 5x5 @ 85% CP5 right now, so probably a very decent place to start.

Does anyone have any thoughts on 7-8 minutes x 3 intervals versus 5x5 @ 85% of CP5 ? Note that the total workout time is almost identical with 8x3 vs 5x5.

I'm not sure which you should wish for...

- Your lack of specific build up being mystically saved by yet another Cyclingforums request for "I have an event in xx weeks" post.

or

- That Christ really does have a second coming this Saturday (May 21, 2011) and that you either end up "saved" and carted off or dead. The same nutjob that predicted this also predicts that God will blow up the Universe in October, in which case if weird things do occour this weekend and you manage to be walking around this joint on Sunday I'd seek good times before the years end rather than worrying about riding a bike around an oval track.

Personally, I predict you'll have dead legs sometime around the end of July, if only for a few minutes.

For pursuit prep, the long and proper form do a google search for "Andy Coggan PASO" It's a nice powerpoint file that has lots of good stuff in it - but it includes the entire seasons worth of buildup and training so you have to decide what corners need to be cut.

I think a weekends worth of aero testing and a few weeks figuring out how to really plan a season would be more apt. Just don't start the pursuit too hard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by InPursuit [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

This is interesting. I don't know what MAP is but I have done an all out 5 minute test . But this was a while ago. That being said, just by eyeing the #s, I could probably just barely complete 5x5 @ 85% CP5 right now, so probably a very decent place to start.

Does anyone have any thoughts on 7-8 minutes x 3 intervals versus 5x5 @ 85% of CP5 ? Note that the total workout time is almost identical with 8x3 vs 5x5.

Here's a description of MAP from Alex's blog:

alex-cycle.blogspot.commap testing where failure is success.htmlOpen ↗

Also, if you haven't been doing this kind of interval you will make fast progress at first, so if you think you can just barely do 5x5 at that wattage right now then start with 4x5. The next time do 5, etc. When you get to 6 or 7 you can start increasing the wattage.

As for different interval lengths, once you get out to 8 mins you're starting to get close to an L4 interval instead of an L5 interval, so it all depends what you're aiming for.

I went out and went for a number and was only able to do 3x5' with 5 recovery. Power fade was only 2% actually after 3, (2 watts under target, 1 over, and then about 7 under) and now that I think about it, I probably should have gone for 1 more.

I don't have my Hunter/Coggan book handy that talks about how much power fade to call it quits vs keep going.

Interestingly, I think 3x5 is harder than 2x8. I think starting and getting into the groove is harder than holding on for another couple minutes.

Not sure if I should keep on with 3x5 or lower the power down until I can complete more. I may give it a week and come back and see how I can do at the same power.

If you're normal you'll find that 5' intervals are some of the hardest you'll do. Painful AND long. If 3x5 was too hard, rather than back off why not try 4' intervals at the same wattage (with 4' rest intervals). Work that up to 6-8 and then you can change tack if you want. They're very painful but (a) very beneficial and (b) you will get better at them fast (at least I do).