Vinokourov... oh man.... :(

[Donga]

On Jul 25, 3:04 pm, Kingsley <[email protected]>
wrote:

> It you were going to goto all that trouble, surely you would have frozen
> your own blood weeks/months prior to make it less-detectable... *shrug*
>

Preferably at a time when you didn't have other prohibited substances
in your blood!

 

[Donga]

On Jul 25, 2:51 pm, Bleve <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Phil Gomes said today he feels like "*-someone has killed Santa-*"
>
> Phil needs to get a life. It's only a bike race.

Well said. Isn't cycling dead yet?

 

[cfsmtb]

Phil needs to get a life. It's only a bike race.

You two lovebirds having a little snit?

http://www.spinopsys.com/archives/1131

 

[MikeyOz]

It you were going to goto all that trouble, surely you would have frozen
your own blood weeks/months prior to make it less-detectable... *shrug*

There is no claim made to them being smart/intelligent

But you would have thought so, however in another article somewhere it also suggests that they can even detect when it is your own blood being used, something about RGB's and cytometers... they apparently can already do it, but they don't tell anyone for a while, apparently they think they can keep it secret.

 

[Bleve]

On Jul 25, 3:15 pm, cfsmtb <cfsmtb.2u9...@no-
mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> Bleve Wrote:
>
>
>
> > Phil needs to get a life. It's only a bike race.
>
> You two lovebirds having a little snit?
>
> http://www.spinopsys.com/archives/1131

Snit? I passed on the link to Deveny's article to him, which is
hardly evidence of a snit. I have a lot of respect for phil, I like
most of his articles and agree with a lot of what he writes about,
even if he's called me names on one occasion, we're on the same side
on 90% of things.

But if a rider getting busted for cheating makes someone think santa
was killed, that is something of an over-reaction. It is only a bike
race.

 

[Terryc]

TimC wrote:

> I know nothing about biology, and am not entirely convinced that we
> know everything there is to know about biology. I may be talking out
> of my ****, but I wonder if elite athletes are who they are because
> their body is able to change its chemistry in response to external
> stimulus -- self healing in a respect.

From what I remember, blood cells shouldn't change rapidly, like sugar
levels. They are produced by bone marrow, live for a while (weeks) and
then die.

Yes, there are two different sorts (oxygen and other transporter), but I
suspect they mean he suddenly gave two reactions to different
"breed/trait" of red blood cell, i.e most normal people only have one.
Just a guess.

 

[Donga]

I guess the Kazakhstani president will be pretty ****** off. How do
you rate Vino's chances back home? What will his sister say? I'm
looking forward to commentary from Borat, Kazakhstan's seventh (was
the sixth) most famous man.

Donga

 

[ProfTournesol]

TimC wrote:

> I know nothing about biology, and am not entirely convinced that we
> know everything there is to know about biology. I may be talking out
> of my ****, but I wonder if elite athletes are who they are because
> their body is able to change its chemistry in response to external
> stimulus -- self healing in a respect.

From what I remember, blood cells shouldn't change rapidly, like sugar
levels. They are produced by bone marrow, live for a while (weeks) and
then die.

Yes, there are two different sorts (oxygen and other transporter), but I
suspect they mean he suddenly gave two reactions to different
"breed/trait" of red blood cell, i.e most normal people only have one.
Just a guess.

red blood cells have major antigens on their surface that we have all heard about: type a, B or O and also a second RH antigen is present or absent, hence blood groups like A+ or O-.
We will all develop a serious illness if transfused with blood carrying the wrong antigen. However there are many other 'minor' antigen systems on the surface of our cells although these usually don't cause problems if they are not compatible and so aren't routinely checked for in clinical medicine. However if you receive a blood transfusion that is compatible ABO and Rh wise, you can now be tested to identify different populations of cells with different antibody combinations. Unless you have an undiagnosed absorbed twin like Tyler Hamilton <chuckle> there is no chance of this occurring naturally. Falling off your bike as Vino suggested is not going to cause it either.

If you receive a re-transfusion of your own blood, the stored blood deteriorates in a characteristic way that can be observed under a microscope.

 

[rooman]

On Jul 25, 3:15 pm, cfsmtb <cfsmtb.2u9...@no-
mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> Bleve Wrote:
>
>
>
> > Phil needs to get a life. It's only a bike race.
>
> You two lovebirds having a little snit?
>
> http://www.spinopsys.com/archives/1131

Snit? I passed on the link to Deveny's article to him, which is
hardly evidence of a snit. I have a lot of respect for phil, I like
most of his articles and agree with a lot of what he writes about,
even if he's called me names on one occasion, we're on the same side
on 90% of things.

But if a rider getting busted for cheating makes someone think santa
was killed, that is something of an over-reaction. It is only a bike
race.

Phil may really mean it! but the life he has seems to keep him busy... Twittering the tour etc.

BTW For those who missed the original Whitney Richards statement on Chicken and Hemopure its here

 

[The Double Zero]

TimC wrote:

> I know nothing about biology, and am not entirely convinced that we
> know everything there is to know about biology. I may be talking out
> of my ****, but I wonder if elite athletes are who they are because
> their body is able to change its chemistry in response to external
> stimulus -- self healing in a respect.

From what I remember, blood cells shouldn't change rapidly, like sugar
levels. They are produced by bone marrow, live for a while (weeks) and
then die.

Yes, there are two different sorts (oxygen and other transporter), but I
suspect they mean he suddenly gave two reactions to different
"breed/trait" of red blood cell, i.e most normal people only have one.
Just a guess.

He was found with another persons blood in his system these cells have different genetic markers to his own cells. He probably couldn't use his own blood stored earlier as the authorities were doing crack downs searching for blood bags. It would be my guess that they withdrew blood from one of the team guys with the same blood type and infused this into him, therefore no bags of blood would have to be transported.

 

[cfsmtb]

Phil may really mean it!

joke: [johk] – noun
1. Something said or done to provoke laughter or cause amusement, as a witticism, a short and amusing anecdote, or a prankish act.

 

[Phil]

On Jul 25, 3:37 pm, Bleve <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jul 25, 3:15 pm, cfsmtb <cfsmtb.2u9...@no-
>
> mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> > Bleve Wrote:
>
> > > Phil needs to get a life. It's only a bike race.
>
> > You two lovebirds having a little snit?
>
> >http://www.spinopsys.com/archives/1131
>
> Snit? I passed on the link to Deveny's article to him, which is
> hardly evidence of a snit. I have a lot of respect for phil, I like
> most of his articles and agree with a lot of what he writes about,
> even if he's called me names on one occasion, we're on the same side
> on 90% of things.
>
> But if a rider getting busted for cheating makes someone think santa
> was killed, that is something of an over-reaction. It is only a bike
> race.

Me and Carl are good, just thought everyone should know that.

 

[Terryc]

rooman wrote:
> hmmm....
>
> Vino must have known he was threatening the 10 year contract Astana
> just secured from its government et al...is he that stubborn or plain
> thick? is it Da or Doh?

Wasn't that announced after he did this?

This is the guy wearing allthe bandages?


Wonder if the guy is related to borat?

 

[MikeyOz]

He was found with another persons blood in his system these cells have different genetic markers to his own cells. He probably couldn't use his own blood stored earlier as the authorities were doing crack downs searching for blood bags. It would be my guess that they withdrew blood from one of the team guys with the same blood type and infused this into him, therefore no bags of blood would have to be transported.

Ahh ok so the first question asked in the interview when you apply for a job wth a Pro Bike Team is, "What blood type are you and do you have any transferable diseases ???"

Unless you are applying for job as Lead Team rider...

 

[MikeyOz]

rooman wrote:
> hmmm....
>
> Vino must have known he was threatening the 10 year contract Astana
> just secured from its government et al...is he that stubborn or plain
> thick? is it Da or Doh?

Wasn't that announced after he did this?

This is the guy wearing allthe bandages?


Wonder if the guy is related to borat?

yeah that him.... although given the race this year, that could describe any number of riders!! I'm surprised the bandage supplier does not have advertising on the outside of the bandage, not hygenic ??

 

[Bleve]

On Jul 25, 9:07 am, TimC <[email protected]
astro.swin.edu.au> wrote:
> On 2007-07-24, MikeyOz (aka Bruce)
> was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>
>
>
> >http://www.theage.com.au/news/tourdefrance/team-quits-in-tour-doping-...
>
> > very disappointing.... I guess have to wait for the b-sample.
>
> > Does anybody have a good reference, website or other as to how the
> > testing is done ?
>
> I'd love to know more about the biology, and about the testing --
> the article only says "two distinctive types of red blood cells".
>
> I know nothing about biology, and am not entirely convinced that we
> know everything there is to know about biology. I may be talking out
> of my ****, but I wonder if elite athletes are who they are because
> their body is able to change its chemistry in response to external
> stimulus -- self healing in a respect.

If you're genuinely interested, there's heaps of material on this
relating to the Tyler Hamilton case (same thing, homologous blood
doping). Tyler's defence was 'chimera' or 'missing twin'. Not very
likely ... anyway ... do a search on Cyclingnews.com for Tyler
Hamilton's case, read the material, and it will all start to make
sense. The detection method is complex, but the theory is reasonably
simple - here's a tip, it does *not* involve DNA testing (at least,
not initially, too expensive), it involves testing for the age
distribution of red blood cells. There was a good article on it in,
of all things, Bicycling Australia (not normally known for quality
articles ... but there's exceptions) a few editions ago.

 

[Donga]

On Jul 25, 5:41 pm, Terryc <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> Wonder if the guy is related to borat?

An important philosophical question is what effect this will have on
the standing of Borat in Kazakhstan. Presently Borat is the sixth most
important. Was Vino more important? Is he still? Was he less important
and is now more important than Borat? In other words, after this
incident, will Borat be the fifth, sixth or seventh most important
person in Kazakhstan? This will keep me awake tonight - please help me
to understand.

Donga

 

[dewatf]

On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 01:25:23 -0700, Bleve wrote:

> The detection method is complex, but the theory is reasonably
> simple - here's a tip, it does *not* involve DNA testing (at least,
> not initially, too expensive), it involves testing for the age
> distribution of red blood cells.

The reason they don't use DNA testing is that red blood cells don't contain
DNA, they loose their cell nucleus and are basically just haemoglobin in a
membrane. RBCs thus can't repair themselves and have a life cycle from
reticulocytes produced in bone marrow to erythrcytes that function for 3-4
months then are then cleaned out by the spleen. Anyay most blood dopers
have stored up their own blood.

They test for the number of red blood cells and amount of iron looking for
abnormally high values. The latest test is to look at the ratio of young to
old RBCs as transfusions increase the number of old RBCs.

It is a shame for Vinokurov, ending his career in infamy and loosing two
classic stage wins.

dewatf.

 

[Dorfus Dippintush]

Donga wrote:
> On Jul 25, 5:41 pm, Terryc <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Wonder if the guy is related to borat?
>
> An important philosophical question is what effect this will have on
> the standing of Borat in Kazakhstan. Presently Borat is the sixth most
> important. Was Vino more important? Is he still? Was he less important
> and is now more important than Borat? In other words, after this
> incident, will Borat be the fifth, sixth or seventh most important
> person in Kazakhstan? This will keep me awake tonight - please help me
> to understand.
>
> Donga
>

I'm sure I saw Borat on the side of the road the other night at the
Tour,(he was in his swimming costume shouting encouragement at the
riders.) Perhaps Mike Tomalaris or Phil Ligget could seek him out for
some words of wisdom?

Dorfus Dippintush

 

[TimC]

On 2007-07-25, Donga (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> On Jul 25, 5:41 pm, Terryc <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> Wonder if the guy is related to borat?
>
> An important philosophical question is what effect this will have on
> the standing of Borat in Kazakhstan. Presently Borat is the sixth most
> important. Was Vino more important? Is he still? Was he less important
> and is now more important than Borat? In other words, after this
> incident, will Borat be the fifth, sixth or seventh most important
> person in Kazakhstan? This will keep me awake tonight - please help me
> to understand.

What colour jersey does the most important Kazakh wear? And are other
the other 5th, 6th, or 7th doping and potentially going to be
increased/decreased in standings as well?


What would Vino look like in a mankini when he has to change careers?

--
TimC
Your fault (core dumped)