Viking reignitors reigniting when they shouldn't be

Kilowatt said:

I hope this is the correct group for a query such as this
if not could someone point me in the right direction.

We have a Viking 30in VGIC and when we turn on the right
front burner the right rear and left rear ignitors keep
clacking(reigniting). The RF works fine, ignites the gas,
and we get a nice flame. This symptom only occurs on the
RF. The LF work fine. The LR lights fine but it does fire
the RR ignitor ONCE. The RR works fine.

Basically we can get all the burners to light correctly
but the RF causes itself and two other ignitors to fire.

I've looked at the wiring diagram but it doesn't really
help as the reignitor circuitry is in a "black box"
anyway. Right know that's where I'm guessing the failure
is occuring but I don't know under what conditions the
reignitor circuit asks the ignitor to fire.

Can anyone explain how the reignitor circuit knows when to
fire the ignitor?

Any suggestions, I am pretty experinced with
troubleshooting simple electronic/electrical circuits?

Thanks, Greg

Interested in any replies. My mother's Dacor is doing the
same.

jim

rec.food.equipment

"Kilowatt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I hope this is the correct group for a query such as this
if not could someone point me in the right direction.

We have a Viking 30in VGIC and when we turn on the right
front burner the right rear and left rear ignitors keep
clacking(reigniting). The RF works fine, ignites the gas,
and we get a nice flame. This symptom only occurs

on

Quoted message said:

the RF. The LF work fine. The LR lights fine but it does
fire the RR

ignitor

Quoted message said:

ONCE. The RR works fine.

Basically we can get all the burners to light correctly
but the RF causes itself and two other ignitors to fire.

I've looked at the wiring diagram but it doesn't really
help as the reignitor circuitry is in a "black box"
anyway. Right know that's where

I'm

Quoted message said:

guessing the failure is occuring but I don't know under
what conditions

the

Quoted message said:

reignitor circuit asks the ignitor to fire.

Can anyone explain how the reignitor circuit knows when to
fire the

ignitor?

Quoted message said:

Any suggestions, I am pretty experinced with
troubleshooting simple electronic/electrical circuits?

Thanks, Greg

JimLane said:

Kilowatt said:

I hope this is the correct group for a query such as this
if not could someone point me in the right direction.

We have a Viking 30in VGIC and when we turn on the right
front burner the right rear and left rear ignitors keep
clacking(reigniting). The RF works fine, ignites the gas,
and we get a nice flame. This symptom only occurs on the
RF. The LF work fine. The LR lights fine but it does fire
the RR ignitor ONCE. The RR works fine.

Basically we can get all the burners to light correctly
but the RF causes itself and two other ignitors to fire.

I've looked at the wiring diagram but it doesn't really
help as the reignitor circuitry is in a "black box"
anyway. Right know that's where I'm guessing the failure
is occuring but I don't know under what conditions the
reignitor circuit asks the ignitor to fire.

Can anyone explain how the reignitor circuit knows when
to fire the ignitor?

Any suggestions, I am pretty experinced with
troubleshooting simple electronic/electrical circuits?

Thanks, Greg

Interested in any replies. My mother's Dacor is doing
the same.

jim

You aren't going to like this. Odds are it's the 'black
box'. Try this; With a stiff, dry tooth or some such - even
onto a wire brush. clean the area where the sensor is. This
will be the little metal peg sticking out of the side of the
burner where the spark happens. It also doubles as a probe
which senses the presence of gas by comparing the electrical
resistance of gas to air. Any crud in the vicinity of said
sensor (carbon left from spills) will result in false
readings and the attenpt to light a burmer that is not
turned on.If the cleaning fails to rectify the problem
replacement (of the black box) is the only cure.*common to
all brands as far as I know!

Replacement will cost you a bundle (unless you still have a
warranty). Been there and done that. When the replacement
failed (less than two momths - made in Taiwan) I unplugged
the damn thing and fell back on the good old low tech hand-
held spark lighter. Satisfied ever since. Regards. Ken.

--
rupert.net~solarOpen ↗ Return address supplied by
'spammotel' spammotel.comspammotel.comOpen ↗

Folks thanks for all the replies.

Jim I posted the same question over in rec.food.equipment so
take a look over there also for possible replies.

Ken Thanks for the pointers although I'm still not clear on
how a ignitor becomes a sensor...but there's got to be a
sensor somewhere. I'll clean em and see what happens. Do you
remember what that circuit/black box cost you?

Penmart - I have never understood those kinds of responses
to newsgroup questions...maybe it's something personal
between you and Ken, I really don't care, but if you have
some knowledge you'd like to share, I'm listening. As far as
Viking QC, I'm inclined to agree with you...but if it had
been wired incorrectly from the factory why did these
symptoms appear after three years of working fine.

Mompegram - thanks for the referal to rec.food.equipment I
posted over there this morning.

Thanks again, Greg "Kilowatt" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I hope this is the correct group for a query such as this
if not could someone point me in the right direction.

We have a Viking 30in VGIC and when we turn on the right
front burner the right rear and left rear ignitors keep
clacking(reigniting). The RF works fine, ignites the gas,
and we get a nice flame. This symptom only occurs

on

Quoted message said:

the RF. The LF work fine. The LR lights fine but it does
fire the RR

ignitor

Quoted message said:

ONCE. The RR works fine.

Basically we can get all the burners to light correctly
but the RF causes itself and two other ignitors to fire.

I've looked at the wiring diagram but it doesn't really
help as the reignitor circuitry is in a "black box"
anyway. Right know that's where

I'm

Quoted message said:

guessing the failure is occuring but I don't know under
what conditions

the

Quoted message said:

reignitor circuit asks the ignitor to fire.

Can anyone explain how the reignitor circuit knows when to
fire the

ignitor?

Quoted message said:

Any suggestions, I am pretty experinced with
troubleshooting simple electronic/electrical circuits?

Thanks, Greg

Kilowatt said:

Folks thanks for all the replies.

Jim I posted the same question over in rec.food.equipment
so take a look over there also for possible replies.

Ken Thanks for the pointers although I'm still not clear
on how a ignitor becomes a sensor...but there's got to be
a sensor somewhere. I'll clean em and see what happens. Do
you remember what that circuit/black box cost you?

Greg; My guess (educated - sort of) is that a high frequency
low voltage signal is applied to all the igniter electrodes
whenever *any* control knob is turned to the on position.
This signal allows a comparator circuit to measure
resistance from the probe through the spark gap to ground.
When the resistance falls below a certain value the
comparator circuit signals the high voltage spark circuit to
turn on - there is a separate high frequency and voltage
circuit for each burner. The different frequencies allow the
two circuits to operate through a common electrode without
cross interference. Any build-up of conductive material (eg.
burnt on carbon - salt, moisture) on the insulator around
the spark electrode will produce the symptoms you see.
That's the best I can do to explain it. The black box I
originally replaced was potted with a transparent epoxy and
it was easy to see the four separate sections in it. The
replacement 'black box' (kitchenaid) cost me somewhere in
the neighborhood of $450.00 CDN. Hope this helps. Ken.
PS: Penmart (aka Sheldon) was the first person on this
(or any other NG) to earn a place in my kill file.
His childish and in many cases plain-nasty-drivel
isn't missed.

Quoted message said:

Penmart - I have never understood those kinds of responses
to newsgroup questions...maybe it's something personal
between you and Ken, I really don't care, but if you have
some knowledge you'd like to share, I'm listening. As far
as Viking QC, I'm inclined to agree with you...but if it
had been wired incorrectly from the factory why did these
symptoms appear after three years of working fine.

Mompegram - thanks for the referal to rec.food.equipment I
posted over there this morning.

Thanks again, Greg "Kilowatt" <[email hidden]> wrote
in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I hope this is the correct group for a query such as this
if not could someone point me in the right direction.

We have a Viking 30in VGIC and when we turn on the right
front burner the right rear and left rear ignitors keep
clacking(reigniting). The RF works fine, ignites the gas,
and we get a nice flame. This symptom only occurs on the
RF. The LF work fine. The LR lights fine but it does fire
the RR ignitor ONCE. The RR works fine.

Basically we can get all the burners to light correctly
but the RF causes itself and two other ignitors to fire.

I've looked at the wiring diagram but it doesn't really
help as the reignitor circuitry is in a "black box"
anyway. Right know that's where I'm guessing the failure
is occuring but I don't know under what conditions the
reignitor circuit asks the ignitor to fire.

Can anyone explain how the reignitor circuit knows when
to fire the ignitor?

Any suggestions, I am pretty experinced with
troubleshooting simple electronic/electrical circuits?

Thanks, Greg

--
rupert.net~solarOpen ↗ Return address supplied by
'spammotel' spammotel.comspammotel.comOpen ↗

Ken, Thanks for taking the time to write that explanation.
It makes perfect sense to me.

That's a bummer abt the price...Ouch!

I can see why it's potted due to the temps and possible
vibration it's exposed to and of course there's no repairing
it, just replace it... oh well

Thanks again, Greg

"Ken Davey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Kilowatt said:

Folks thanks for all the replies.

Jim I posted the same question over in
rec.food.equipment so take a look over there also for
possible replies.

Ken Thanks for the pointers although I'm still not clear
on how a ignitor becomes a sensor...but there's got to
be a sensor somewhere. I'll clean em and see what
happens. Do you remember what that circuit/black box
cost you?

Greg; My guess (educated - sort of) is that a high
frequency low voltage signal is applied to all the igniter
electrodes whenever *any* control knob is turned to the on
position. This signal allows a comparator circuit to
measure resistance from the probe through the spark gap to
ground. When the resistance falls below a certain value
the comparator circuit signals the high voltage spark
circuit to turn on - there is a separate high frequency
and voltage circuit for each burner. The different
frequencies allow the two circuits to operate through a
common electrode without cross interference. Any build-up
of conductive material (eg. burnt on carbon - salt,
moisture) on the insulator around the spark electrode will
produce the symptoms you see. That's the best I can do to
explain it. The black box I originally replaced was potted
with a transparent epoxy and it was easy to see the four
separate sections in it. The replacement 'black box'
(kitchenaid) cost me somewhere in the neighborhood of
$450.00 CDN. Hope this helps. Ken.
PS: Penmart (aka Sheldon) was the first person on this (or
any other NG)

to

Quoted message said:

earn a place in my kill file. His childish and in many
cases plain-nasty-drivel isn't missed.

Quoted message said:

Penmart - I have never understood those kinds of
responses to newsgroup questions...maybe it's something
personal between you and Ken, I really don't care, but
if you have some knowledge you'd like to share, I'm
listening. As far as Viking QC, I'm inclined to agree
with you...but if it had been wired incorrectly from the
factory why did these symptoms appear after three years
of working fine.

Mompegram - thanks for the referal to rec.food.equipment
I posted over there this morning.

Thanks again, Greg "Kilowatt" <[email hidden]>
wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I hope this is the correct group for a query such as
this if not could someone point me in the right
direction.

We have a Viking 30in VGIC and when we turn on the
right front burner the right rear and left rear
ignitors keep clacking(reigniting). The RF works fine,
ignites the gas, and we get a nice flame. This symptom
only occurs on the RF. The LF work fine. The LR lights
fine but it does fire the RR ignitor ONCE. The RR works
fine.

Basically we can get all the burners to light correctly
but the RF causes itself and two other ignitors to
fire.

I've looked at the wiring diagram but it doesn't really
help as the reignitor circuitry is in a "black box"
anyway. Right know that's where I'm guessing the
failure is occuring but I don't know under what
conditions the reignitor circuit asks the ignitor to
fire.

Can anyone explain how the reignitor circuit knows when
to fire the ignitor?

Any suggestions, I am pretty experinced with
troubleshooting simple electronic/electrical circuits?

Thanks, Greg

--
rupert.net~solarOpen ↗ Return address supplied by
'spammotel' spammotel.comspammotel.comOpen ↗

You probably spilled something or had a boilover on the
ignitor, clean it up as one poster suggests below. Sheldon,
if the stove was miswired, wouldn't the original poster
would have taken it back or had the factory fix it under
warranty? You are the dumb putz, as you obviously know
nothing about Viking stoves, Viking Ignitors, or
electronics. It's best to keep your pie hole shut when you
don't know anything about the subject at hand. So, clean up
that particular burner and sensor then the stove should work
fine. My Viking stove does this exact same thing if the
Ignitor has stuff spilled on it.

:>Try this; With a stiff, dry tooth or some such - even onto
:>a wire brush. clean the area where the sensor is. This
:>will be the little metal peg sticking out of the side of
:>the burner where the spark happens. It also doubles as a
:>probe which senses the presence of gas by comparing the
:>electrical resistance of gas to air. Any crud in the
:>vicinity of said sensor (carbon left from spills) will
:>result in false readings and the attenpt to light a burmer
:>that is not turned on.If the cleaning fails to rectify the
:>problem replacement (of the black box) is the only
:>cure.*common to all brands as far as I know!
:>
:>Replacement will cost you a bundle (unless you still have
:>a warranty). Been there and done that. When the
:>replacement failed (less than two momths - made in Taiwan)
:>I unplugged the damn thing and fell back on the good old
:>low tech hand-held spark lighter. Satisfied ever since.
:>Regards. Ken.

: Piezoelectric igniters don't work that way, you dumb
: putz... they are as dumb as you, they sense nothing.

: That stove is wired incorrectly... but that's to be
: expected, Viking stove QC is [censored].

: ---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =--- ---= Move
: UNITED NATIONS To Paris =--- Sheldon ```````````` "Life
: would be devoid of all meaning were it without
: tribulation."
: