Tour de Romandie

[Andrija]

I'm very happy for Savoldelli and it seems Valverde got a pair of new wings after those two wins, also he has improved his TTing massively (although it was short one).
I'd say Ullrich is O.K. for his first and very short TT of the season.
But I don't know... Maybe Il Falco is too good too soon...
We'll see.

 

[doctorSpoc]

I'm very happy for Savoldelli and it seems Valverde got a pair of new wings after those two wins, also he has improved his TTing massively (although it was short one).
I'd say Ullrich is O.K. for his first and very short TT of the season.
But I don't know... Maybe Il Falco is too good too soon...
We'll see.

Valverde didn't even use tri bars or an aero helmet and still came in second by less than a second.. almost 4 seconds ahead of third place...

i looked at the startlist and the Disco roster and i just gotta say this... Disco treats Salvodelli like ****... look at the team they sent with him to Romandi.. these are the flat 1 day classics guys.. Romandi has hills like nobody's business... Salvodelli is a two time Grand Tour winner... the only grand tour winner on their squad.. and that's how they treat him?!? man i bet he can't wait for his contract to end... it's a testiment to his skill, resolve and talent that he's able to get results with what Disco gives him in the way of support.. total dixx.

 

[wolfix]

I doubt the Romandie means that much to DC. This is nothing but a warm-up run to the Giro. Why blow the legs off the climbers chasing and working this close to the Giro?

 

[micron]

Still, a very prestigious win - or do Disco really only give a toss about the GTs?

 

[wolfix]

Yes, it is a good win. But to send the Giro team to try to win the team after a tough Georgia race would not be wise. And other Giro teams are doing the same.

 

[micron]

But to be seen to be prioritising the TdG makes Disco look parochial - you can understand Savoldelli's recent criticisms of Danielson, who has only ever ridden to GTs let alone won any....

 

[jonjungel]

Does anyone know where I can find live coverage in english?

Je ne parle pas francais...

 

[doctorSpoc]

I doubt the Romandie means that much to DC. This is nothing but a warm-up run to the Giro. Why blow the legs off the climbers chasing and working this close to the Giro?

It's not about winning Romandie, it's about winning the Giro and to a lesser extent the tour by supporting the greatest Grand tour rider on your team... shouldn't you at least set up your riders schedules such that you send at least ONE rider that can help your best hope for a Grand Tour win? I'm not saying wipe your riders out by sending them to both Romandie and TdG how about not sending some to TdG and match their schedules to Salvodeli's?

 

[wolfix]

For Discovery ....Winning the ToG is almost as important as the Giro. You are in front of the home sponsors and the ToG may have a wider audience and name recognition for the Discovery Channel ....... In the cycling world the Giro is very important, but not to the average viewer of the Discovery Channel. The timing of the 2 make it difficult to ride both.
Actually ...For an American sponsor , winning a small criterium in a small backwater town in America carries more weight then winning any race in Europe other then the TDF. Bicycle racing is still seen as a sport people participate in that are not competitive in other sports. Armstrong said he was attracted to the bike because he was not a good participant in other sports. I wish it was different here......
I hope you Euro cycling fans appreciate what you have......

 

[Bjorn P.Dal]

Does anyone know where I can find live coverage in english?

Je ne parle pas francais...

cycling.tv

 

[Andrija]

Does anyone know where I can find live coverage in english?

Je ne parle pas francais...

Watch it on DSF... It's probably easier to you to understand Deutsch than French

 

[rejobako]

But to be seen to be prioritising the TdG makes Disco look parochial

The only high-profile American-sponsored team prioritizing one of the few notable American cycling events? How could anyone have predicted that?

Let's face it, American cycling will remain a "fringe" sport in the United States for the foreseeable future, even if American cyclists were to win every Grand Tour and Classic for the next 20 years. The NFL, NBA, MLB, PGA, NASCAR, etc. are too entrenched for cycling ever to be able to muscle its way into a significant market share of television ratings, and lets face it, that's what sells sponsorships over here --- TV money.

That being said, thanks to Lemond and then Armstrong, cycling has developed a small but fiercely loyal audience that generates enough revenue to sustain a Discovery sponsorship for now. But to ensure that cycling remains on the radar here, American cycling must produce enough successful athletes for fans and enthusiasts here to root for. Exposure needs to be increased as much as possible, and as we've seen with Armstrong and Lemond, the best way to increase exposure is success. Essentially it's a dog chasing its own tail. Events like the TdG are crucial, in my opinion, to that process. Coincidentally, I have a sister who lives not far from Brasstown Bald, and the TdG route always passes near her home in Blue Ridge. The event was initially a curious spectacle for the locals there, but I've noticed that many of the residents of north Georgia now know the names of the international contenders and have chosen favorites, instead of just checking the start list to see if Lance Armstrong is participating.

I applaud Discovery for bringing a strong team to the TdG here to make a good showing. If Savoldelli's feelings are hurt because the TdG squad was stronger than the one he's riding with in Romandie, so be it. But that sounds like conjecture. To my knowledge, there's been no news at all that Savoldelli is at all concerned about this issue, when his goal is certainly to try to repeat in his home nation's Grand Tour.

 

[doctorSpoc]

The only high-profile American-sponsored team prioritizing one of the few notable American cycling events? How could anyone have predicted that? ...

yeah... blah, blah, blah we all understand the sponsorship issues... i was commenting from Salvodelli's perspective.. here you are the only Grand tour winner on the team.. and a two time one at that and your team can't send even ONE, NOT ONE rider with you to an important tune up race for you, that can help you.. it's pathetic.. as i said he must just be counting the days 'til his contract is over.

and Salvldeli has actually commented on Danielson (can't look for the quote right now).. if only indirectly saying that... paraphasing: Danielson's numbers are great but experience and being able to read a race count for a lot.. and we can see that with what Salvodelli has been able to achieve with the scraps Disco have given him... Danielson basically had Disco's A team behind him at TdG (Armstrong's team) and Landis was able to very handily keep Danielson in his box with Phonak's B team... bottom line is that in the end Disco ended up showing their inexperienced golden boy getting BEAT in front of their target audience... not quite the result they might have hoped for. my point was and i think most agree with this that Salvodelli is getting the shaft for marketing reasons... the only thing is that i think Disco might be prematurely hitching their wagon to their shinning star in Danielson and ignoring Salvodelli at their own peril. Danielson needs to prove himself and be groomed for team leadership and i think Disco is actually doing him a diservice by elevating him to team leadership and not grooming him properly.. if Danielson fall flat on his face you blow his confidence and you can ruin a rider by not doing these things properly... i think the only issue with Danielson is that he's kind getting up their in age and they probably want to get some results before it's too late but he need the experience under his belt and he just doesn't have it.
you need to manage your business... but part of that is managing your resources and investment and in the cycling business that's your riders and i'm not sure Disco in the post LA era is doing such a good job at that.

 

[rejobako]

yeah... blah, blah, blah we all understand the sponsorship issues... i was commenting from Salvodelli's perspective.. here you are the only Grand tour winner on the team.. and a two time one at that and your team can't send even ONE, NOT ONE rider with you to an important tune up race for you, that can help you.. it's pathetic.. as i said he must just be counting the days 'til his contract is over.

and Salvldeli has actually commented on Danielson (can't look for the quote right now).. if only indirectly saying that... paraphasing: Danielson's numbers are great but experience and being able to read a race count for a lot.. and we can see that with what Salvodelli has been able to achieve with the scraps Disco have given him... Danielson basically had Disco's A team behind him at TdG (Armstrong's team) and Landis was able to very handily keep Danielson in his box with Phonak's B team... bottom line is that in the end Disco ended up showing their inexperienced golden boy getting BEAT in front of their target audience... not quite the result they might have hoped for. my point was and i think most agree with this that Salvodelli is getting the shaft for marketing reasons... the only thing is that i think Disco might be prematurely hitching their wagon to their shinning star in Danielson and ignoring Salvodelli at their own peril. Danielson needs to prove himself and be groomed for team leadership and i think Disco is actually doing him a diservice by elevating him to team leadership and not grooming him properly.. if Danielson fall flat on his face you blow his confidence and you can ruin a rider by not doing these things properly... i think the only issue with Danielson is that he's kind getting up their in age and they probably want to get some results before it's too late but he need the experience under his belt and he just doesn't have it.
you need to manage your business... but part of that is managing your resources and investment and in the cycling business that's your riders and i'm not sure Disco in the post LA era is doing such a good job at that.

All well and good, but I still am waiting for some indication by Savoldelli that he has ever felt slighted by his team. As for Danielson's loss to Landis at TdG, certainly that was a disappointment to Discovery -- as an American cycling fan, however, I am ecstatic. Discovery put on a good showing, winning some stages and the overall team title, and Danielson was on the podium finishing a scant 4 seconds behind . . . Floyd Landis, another high-profile American cyclist. Although I am very much interested in the continuation of a major American sponsor for international cycling, I think it helps the image of the sport here for the nouveau fans to be reminded that American cyclists can hold their own as valued members of the more-tenured international teams.

Sorry, but somehow I don't see Savoldelli gnashing his teeth because he isn't getting top-flight support for an event that serves as a glorified training ride for the goal of winning the Giro. If you have a quote from him that indicates some dissatisfaction, OK, but your assertion remains your own conjecture. And I'm sure that he's enough of a big boy to understand that "getting the shaft for marketing reasons" is sometimes part of the business. No cyclist who signs on to a team created for the sole purpose of supporting Lance Armstrong could fail to perceive that from the outset. There isn't a single pro team in existence that doesn't have a goal of marketing itself for the purpose of making money.

 

[musette]

It's not about winning Romandie, it's about winning the Giro and to a lesser extent the tour by supporting the greatest Grand tour rider on your team... shouldn't you at least set up your riders schedules such that you send at least ONE rider that can help your best hope for a Grand Tour win? I'm not saying wipe your riders out by sending them to both Romandie and TdG how about not sending some to TdG and match their schedules to Salvodeli's?

Five of the known 8 members of the DC Giro team (including of course Il Falco himself) were not in the TdG (also Chechu, Beltran, Joachim, Padrnos). Only Danielson (natural -- defending), Eki and J McCartney were there. 1 member of the DC Giro team is not yet known.

Savoldelli knows he's getting much better support for Giro.

Danielson
Chechu (not in TdG)
Beltran (not in TdG)
Eki
B Joachim (with Savoldelli in Romandie)
P Padrnos (with Savoldelli in Romandie)
J McCartney
One other person

DC plans to take meaningful time against all GC contenders (except Basso, of course) in the TTT. They have the team to do it as well. J McCartney beat Popovych recently in the TdG ITT. Padrnos and Eki are regular TdF TTT stalwarts for LA's period. Joachim is not bad in that discipline. Danielson has improved his ITT, as evidenced by TdG performance (only 4 seconds behind Landis), and Chechu and Beltran are decent TTTists for climbers.

 

[doctorSpoc]

Sorry, but somehow I don't see Savoldelli gnashing his teeth because he isn't getting top-flight support for an event that serves as a glorified training ride for the goal of winning the Giro. If you have a quote from him that indicates some dissatisfaction, OK, but your assertion remains your own conjecture. And I'm sure that he's enough of a big boy to understand that "getting the shaft for marketing reasons" is sometimes part of the business. No cyclist who signs on to a team created for the sole purpose of supporting Lance Armstrong could fail to perceive that from the outset. There isn't a single pro team in existence that doesn't have a goal of marketing itself for the purpose of making money.

- as i have said... i'm not talking about "top flight" support.... i'm talking about ANY support.. they have to field a team since it is a pro tour event, but look at the team.. all 1 day flat classics guys... i'll say it again... not talking about great support... we're talking about any support here?
- i think Salvodelli IS a big boy and understands full well what the deal is.. and he also must have been smart enough to have the freedom to ride the Giro and tune up race.. and so on written into his contract otherwise he wouldn't have been able to ride the way he has..

- as for signing with a team to support Armstrong.. they must have impressed upon him or it was obvious that Armstrong is retiring in a year or two and the GT leadership would be opening up soon

- i kinda think Disco signed Salvodelli as a washed-up workhorse rider that they could get for cheap.. and he turns around and wins the Giro and now they don't know what to do with him since now some of the biggest competition for their hand picked talent is on their team... maybe they are just waiting for his contract to end as well?

 

[musette]

I'd have to disagree with many of the above statements.

Savoldelli was not cheap for DC -- he was their most highly paid cyclist after LA. Sean Yates talked about how much Savoldelli was making in the Cycle Sport edition with the Il Falco feature. It was not much lower (if at all) than what they were paying Heras.

Bruyneel and LA had been trying to recruit Il Falco for years. They "coveted" him (their words). Sure, they wanted him for LA support, but remember (1) they weren't sure LA would be riding the 05 Tour when they recruited Il Falco and (2) they were beefing up for the ProTour's demands and for their inaugural attempt at the Giro. They knew that, on past teams, Il Falco had done well at the Giro without too much team support.

As for Il Falco hoping to lead the team at the Tour, when they recruited Il Falco, they already told him that Popo was their main hope for the Tour after LA. So, Il Falco knew he would be a Grand Tour leader, but just not the Tour. This year, because Popo needs more time, because Il Falco deserves it and because of other factors, Il Falco is getting co-leadership at the Tour.

 

[rejobako]

-- i kinda think Disco signed Salvodelli as a washed-up workhorse rider that they could get for cheap.. and he turns around and wins the Giro and now they don't know what to do with him since now some of the biggest competition for their hand picked talent is on their team... maybe they are just waiting for his contract to end as well?

I think Discovery is simply playing its cards close to the vest, seeing what develops with the talent on the team. There is a nice mix of veteran talent with budding promise, and Discovery would be stupid to put all of its hopes in a guy like Danielson solely because he is an American. On the other hand, Discovery would be just as stupid not to set Danielson up with a chance to excel when possible. In my opinion, Discovery is in the midst of the growing pains of morphing from a Lance-uber-alles team to one that seeks to explore and maximize the various talents of the team members. Savoldelli will have a solid team with him in the Giro, and if there's one thing we know about Discovery, it is a team that, more than perhaps any other team, focuses on the Grand Tours as the dominant measure of success.

 

[doctorSpoc]

...As for Il Falco hoping to lead the team at the Tour, when they recruited Il Falco, they already told him that Popo was their main hope for the Tour after LA. So, Il Falco knew he would be a Grand Tour leader, but just not the Tour. This year, because Popo needs more time, because Il Falco deserves it and because of other factors, Il Falco is getting co-leadership at the Tour.

i'm just trying to get my head around the Disco thought process... if you look at how Salvodelli handled the Giro with bascially no support and how Popovich handled it with basically the same kind of support... Salvodelli winning and Popovich getting WORKED over soooo badly by Saeco he didn't know what hit him... i think you go with proven talent, not speculative talent...for sure you leave the door open, but if it's close and even if the speculative talent is close and looks like they may be able to do it, you go with the proven talent... three weeks is a long time and not just physcially grueling but pyschologically so as well... just ask popovich... last time out he wasn't able to handle being leader with other top team's radar being on him.. it's a lot easier to do something spectacular when no one is looking at you and marking you and working you. that's why first time out for a guy like Danielson, you don't put that kinda pressure on him... you say go for a stage victory... don't look for GC... let him get his confidence up... then you let him loose and see what he can do.

it just seems Disco just doesn't give salvodelli his props.. just the body language, everthing... he won the Giro... ho, hum.. maybe we should send one climber with him to romandie.. nah!

 

[limerickman]

- as i have said... i'm not talking about "top flight" support.... i'm talking about ANY support.. they have to field a team since it is a pro tour event, but look at the team.. all 1 day flat classics guys... i'll say it again... not talking about great support... we're talking about any support here?
- i think Salvodelli IS a big boy and understands full well what the deal is.. and he also must have been smart enough to have the freedom to ride the Giro and tune up race.. and so on written into his contract otherwise he wouldn't have been able to ride the way he has..

- as for signing with a team to support Armstrong.. they must have impressed upon him or it was obvious that Armstrong is retiring in a year or two and the GT leadership would be opening up soon

- i kinda think Disco signed Salvodelli as a washed-up workhorse rider that they could get for cheap.. and he turns around and wins the Giro and now they don't know what to do with him since now some of the biggest competition for their hand picked talent is on their team... maybe they are just waiting for his contract to end as well?

I think your view is closer to the reality.
At the Giro in 2005, Savoldelli received minimal support from the other DC riders in the race.
He was the only DC rider to finish the race, i think.

In addition, the team support which he received was minimal.

Bruyneel didn't bother to go to Italy for the Giro.
Sean Yates acted as DS for DC at the Giro.
And in fact if you read Cycle Sport February 2006 Sean Yates own article states and I quote "We weren't the favourites coming in to the race. We had a weak team......... Paolo was annoyed that we had a weak team. Paolo was getting a great salary but was expecting DC to sign up two teams. It doesn't work like that. You get paid to get results. I (SY) had to phone up the boss man to discuss it. If it got near to the end of the Giro and weneeded help, then we would see what is what".

So Yates had to phone Bryneel if Savoldelli needed help - and only if Savoldelli
was in content to win over all would he receive help?

Kinda blows the old "covet" **** out of the water, eh?