"Mark & Steven Bornfeld" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:yJeFe.8238$ab2.4886@trndny07...
Quoted message said:
Meg Worley said:
A pal and I were trying to remember and failing: Are there any TdF winners who were not that good as time-trialers? The history section of letour.com doesn't specify which stages were ITT, so I can't even figure it out on my own (although that sure beats getting work done this afternoon).
Any of you historians able to help us out here?
Rage away,
meg
Waiting with bated breath for Benjo. Of course, every year when the course is revealed, there are arguments as to whether courses favor climbers or TT specialists. Most of the pure climbers weren't top top TT riders (Van Impe, Bahamontes) but they weren't too shabby in any area. The cliche is that you gain seconds in the TTs but lose minutes on the climbs, and surely there have been years that the course took advantage of this.
The worst TT by the winner of the Tour is Gino Bartali's in 1948: 28th at 11'59". A year later he proved he could do better and finished second, but still at 7'02". Pantani's was 181th in 1998, but in the prologue and he lost only 48". Walkowiak (24th in 1956) and Aimar (18th in 1966) were also doing much worse than non-specialists as Robic, Bahamontes, Pingeon, Van Impe (winner of the TT in 1975), Delgado, etc.
"Mark & Steven Bornfeld" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:yJeFe.8238$ab2.4886@trndny07...
Quoted message said:
Meg Worley said:
A pal and I were trying to remember and failing: Are there any TdF winners who were not that good as time-trialers? The history section of letour.com doesn't specify which stages were ITT, so I can't even figure it out on my own (although that sure beats getting work done this afternoon).
Any of you historians able to help us out here?
Rage away,
meg
Waiting with bated breath for Benjo. Of course, every year when the course is revealed, there are arguments as to whether courses favor climbers or TT specialists. Most of the pure climbers weren't top top TT riders (Van Impe, Bahamontes) but they weren't too shabby in any area. The cliche is that you gain seconds in the TTs but lose minutes on the climbs, and surely there have been years that the course took advantage of this.
The worst TT by the winner of the Tour is Gino Bartali's in 1948: 28th at 11'59". A year later he proved he could do better and finished second, but still at 7'02". Pantani's was 181th in 1998, but in the prologue and he lost only 48". Walkowiak (24th in 1956) and Aimar (18th in 1966) were also doing much worse than non-specialists as Robic, Bahamontes, Pingeon, Van Impe (winner of the TT in 1975), Delgado, etc.
"Mark & Steven Bornfeld" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:yJeFe.8238$ab2.4886@trndny07...
Quoted message said:
Meg Worley said:
A pal and I were trying to remember and failing: Are there any TdF winners who were not that good as time-trialers? The history section of letour.com doesn't specify which stages were ITT, so I can't even figure it out on my own (although that sure beats getting work done this afternoon).
Any of you historians able to help us out here?
Rage away,
meg
Waiting with bated breath for Benjo. Of course, every year when the course is revealed, there are arguments as to whether courses favor climbers or TT specialists. Most of the pure climbers weren't top top TT riders (Van Impe, Bahamontes) but they weren't too shabby in any area. The cliche is that you gain seconds in the TTs but lose minutes on the climbs, and surely there have been years that the course took advantage of this.
The worst TT by the winner of the Tour is Gino Bartali's in 1948: 28th at 11'59". A year later he proved he could do better and finished second, but still at 7'02". Pantani's was 181th in 1998, but in the prologue and he lost only 48". Walkowiak (24th in 1956) and Aimar (18th in 1966) were also doing much worse than non-specialists as Robic, Bahamontes, Pingeon, Van Impe (winner of the TT in 1975), Delgado, etc.
Yes and Delgado in 1988 and Zoetemelk to a lesser extent too in 1980. But you're right they were decent during the ITTs, especially the last one !
I knew you all would come through for me -- thanks.
So, I'll refine the question: Who, among the winners and always-a-bridesmaids (ahem, Poulidor), were the worst TTers? Relatively speaking, of course.
The problem for me in actually judging a time trial performance is that generally only the GC threats actually seem to spill their guts on the TT, so a 5th place out of 200 riders looks better than it might be. A support rider, even if a good TT rider, is unlikely to take a chance of injury or wasting himself early in the race. A TT on the penultimate day may be a truer test of ability.
Steve
Quoted message said:
Anyone tempted to discourse upon the history of the time trial in the century(ies) of the Tour should not hold back, either; this stuff is fascinating. And it'll keep us amused until they announce next year's course.
Not really a TdF-only reader, but plays one on tv,
Yes and Delgado in 1988 and Zoetemelk to a lesser extent too in 1980. But you're right they were decent during the ITTs, especially the last one !
I knew you all would come through for me -- thanks.
So, I'll refine the question: Who, among the winners and always-a-bridesmaids (ahem, Poulidor), were the worst TTers? Relatively speaking, of course.
The problem for me in actually judging a time trial performance is that generally only the GC threats actually seem to spill their guts on the TT, so a 5th place out of 200 riders looks better than it might be. A support rider, even if a good TT rider, is unlikely to take a chance of injury or wasting himself early in the race. A TT on the penultimate day may be a truer test of ability.
Steve
Quoted message said:
Anyone tempted to discourse upon the history of the time trial in the century(ies) of the Tour should not hold back, either; this stuff is fascinating. And it'll keep us amused until they announce next year's course.
Not really a TdF-only reader, but plays one on tv,
Yes and Delgado in 1988 and Zoetemelk to a lesser extent too in 1980. But you're right they were decent during the ITTs, especially the last one !
I knew you all would come through for me -- thanks.
So, I'll refine the question: Who, among the winners and always-a-bridesmaids (ahem, Poulidor), were the worst TTers? Relatively speaking, of course.
The problem for me in actually judging a time trial performance is that generally only the GC threats actually seem to spill their guts on the TT, so a 5th place out of 200 riders looks better than it might be. A support rider, even if a good TT rider, is unlikely to take a chance of injury or wasting himself early in the race. A TT on the penultimate day may be a truer test of ability.
Steve
Quoted message said:
Anyone tempted to discourse upon the history of the time trial in the century(ies) of the Tour should not hold back, either; this stuff is fascinating. And it'll keep us amused until they announce next year's course.
Not really a TdF-only reader, but plays one on tv,
Yes and Delgado in 1988 and Zoetemelk to a lesser extent too in 1980. But you're right they were decent during the ITTs, especially the last one !
I knew you all would come through for me -- thanks.
So, I'll refine the question: Who, among the winners and always-a-bridesmaids (ahem, Poulidor), were the worst TTers? Relatively speaking, of course.
The problem for me in actually judging a time trial performance is that generally only the GC threats actually seem to spill their guts on the TT, so a 5th place out of 200 riders looks better than it might be. A support rider, even if a good TT rider, is unlikely to take a chance of injury or wasting himself early in the race. A TT on the penultimate day may be a truer test of ability.
Steve
Quoted message said:
Anyone tempted to discourse upon the history of the time trial in the century(ies) of the Tour should not hold back, either; this stuff is fascinating. And it'll keep us amused until they announce next year's course.
Not really a TdF-only reader, but plays one on tv,
Yes and Delgado in 1988 and Zoetemelk to a lesser extent too in 1980. But you're right they were decent during the ITTs, especially the last one !
I knew you all would come through for me -- thanks.
So, I'll refine the question: Who, among the winners and always-a-bridesmaids (ahem, Poulidor), were the worst TTers? Relatively speaking, of course.
The problem for me in actually judging a time trial performance is that generally only the GC threats actually seem to spill their guts on the TT, so a 5th place out of 200 riders looks better than it might be. A support rider, even if a good TT rider, is unlikely to take a chance of injury or wasting himself early in the race. A TT on the penultimate day may be a truer test of ability.
Steve
Quoted message said:
Anyone tempted to discourse upon the history of the time trial in the century(ies) of the Tour should not hold back, either; this stuff is fascinating. And it'll keep us amused until they announce next year's course.
Not really a TdF-only reader, but plays one on tv,
Yes and Delgado in 1988 and Zoetemelk to a lesser extent too in 1980. But you're right they were decent during the ITTs, especially the last one !
I knew you all would come through for me -- thanks.
So, I'll refine the question: Who, among the winners and always-a-bridesmaids (ahem, Poulidor), were the worst TTers? Relatively speaking, of course.
The problem for me in actually judging a time trial performance is that generally only the GC threats actually seem to spill their guts on the TT, so a 5th place out of 200 riders looks better than it might be. A support rider, even if a good TT rider, is unlikely to take a chance of injury or wasting himself early in the race. A TT on the penultimate day may be a truer test of ability.
Steve
Quoted message said:
Anyone tempted to discourse upon the history of the time trial in the century(ies) of the Tour should not hold back, either; this stuff is fascinating. And it'll keep us amused until they announce next year's course.
Not really a TdF-only reader, but plays one on tv,
Yes and Delgado in 1988 and Zoetemelk to a lesser extent too in 1980. But you're right they were decent during the ITTs, especially the last one !
I knew you all would come through for me -- thanks.
So, I'll refine the question: Who, among the winners and always-a-bridesmaids (ahem, Poulidor), were the worst TTers? Relatively speaking, of course.
The problem for me in actually judging a time trial performance is that generally only the GC threats actually seem to spill their guts on the TT, so a 5th place out of 200 riders looks better than it might be. A support rider, even if a good TT rider, is unlikely to take a chance of injury or wasting himself early in the race. A TT on the penultimate day may be a truer test of ability.
Steve
Quoted message said:
Anyone tempted to discourse upon the history of the time trial in the century(ies) of the Tour should not hold back, either; this stuff is fascinating. And it'll keep us amused until they announce next year's course.
Not really a TdF-only reader, but plays one on tv,
"Mark & Steven Bornfeld" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:yJeFe.8238$ab2.4886@trndny07...
Quoted message said:
Meg Worley said:
A pal and I were trying to remember and failing: Are there any TdF winners who were not that good as time-trialers? The history section of letour.com doesn't specify which stages were ITT, so I can't even figure it out on my own (although that sure beats getting work done this afternoon).
Any of you historians able to help us out here?
Rage away,
meg
Waiting with bated breath for Benjo. Of course, every year when the course is revealed, there are arguments as to whether courses favor climbers or TT specialists. Most of the pure climbers weren't top top TT riders (Van Impe, Bahamontes) but they weren't too shabby in any area. The cliche is that you gain seconds in the TTs but lose minutes on the climbs, and surely there have been years that the course took advantage of this.
The worst TT by the winner of the Tour is Gino Bartali's in 1948: 28th at 11'59". A year later he proved he could do better and finished second, but still at 7'02". Pantani's was 181th in 1998, but in the prologue and he lost only 48". Walkowiak (24th in 1956) and Aimar (18th in 1966) were also doing much worse than non-specialists as Robic, Bahamontes, Pingeon, Van Impe (winner of the TT in 1975), Delgado, etc.
"Mark & Steven Bornfeld" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:yJeFe.8238$ab2.4886@trndny07...
Quoted message said:
Meg Worley said:
A pal and I were trying to remember and failing: Are there any TdF winners who were not that good as time-trialers? The history section of letour.com doesn't specify which stages were ITT, so I can't even figure it out on my own (although that sure beats getting work done this afternoon).
Any of you historians able to help us out here?
Rage away,
meg
Waiting with bated breath for Benjo. Of course, every year when the course is revealed, there are arguments as to whether courses favor climbers or TT specialists. Most of the pure climbers weren't top top TT riders (Van Impe, Bahamontes) but they weren't too shabby in any area. The cliche is that you gain seconds in the TTs but lose minutes on the climbs, and surely there have been years that the course took advantage of this.
The worst TT by the winner of the Tour is Gino Bartali's in 1948: 28th at 11'59". A year later he proved he could do better and finished second, but still at 7'02". Pantani's was 181th in 1998, but in the prologue and he lost only 48". Walkowiak (24th in 1956) and Aimar (18th in 1966) were also doing much worse than non-specialists as Robic, Bahamontes, Pingeon, Van Impe (winner of the TT in 1975), Delgado, etc.
"Mark & Steven Bornfeld" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:yJeFe.8238$ab2.4886@trndny07...
Quoted message said:
Meg Worley said:
A pal and I were trying to remember and failing: Are there any TdF winners who were not that good as time-trialers? The history section of letour.com doesn't specify which stages were ITT, so I can't even figure it out on my own (although that sure beats getting work done this afternoon).
Any of you historians able to help us out here?
Rage away,
meg
Waiting with bated breath for Benjo. Of course, every year when the course is revealed, there are arguments as to whether courses favor climbers or TT specialists. Most of the pure climbers weren't top top TT riders (Van Impe, Bahamontes) but they weren't too shabby in any area. The cliche is that you gain seconds in the TTs but lose minutes on the climbs, and surely there have been years that the course took advantage of this.
The worst TT by the winner of the Tour is Gino Bartali's in 1948: 28th at 11'59". A year later he proved he could do better and finished second, but still at 7'02". Pantani's was 181th in 1998, but in the prologue and he lost only 48". Walkowiak (24th in 1956) and Aimar (18th in 1966) were also doing much worse than non-specialists as Robic, Bahamontes, Pingeon, Van Impe (winner of the TT in 1975), Delgado, etc.
"Mark & Steven Bornfeld" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:yJeFe.8238$ab2.4886@trndny07...
Quoted message said:
Meg Worley said:
A pal and I were trying to remember and failing: Are there any TdF winners who were not that good as time-trialers? The history section of letour.com doesn't specify which stages were ITT, so I can't even figure it out on my own (although that sure beats getting work done this afternoon).
Any of you historians able to help us out here?
Rage away,
meg
Waiting with bated breath for Benjo. Of course, every year when the course is revealed, there are arguments as to whether courses favor climbers or TT specialists. Most of the pure climbers weren't top top TT riders (Van Impe, Bahamontes) but they weren't too shabby in any area. The cliche is that you gain seconds in the TTs but lose minutes on the climbs, and surely there have been years that the course took advantage of this.
The worst TT by the winner of the Tour is Gino Bartali's in 1948: 28th at 11'59". A year later he proved he could do better and finished second, but still at 7'02". Pantani's was 181th in 1998, but in the prologue and he lost only 48". Walkowiak (24th in 1956) and Aimar (18th in 1966) were also doing much worse than non-specialists as Robic, Bahamontes, Pingeon, Van Impe (winner of the TT in 1975), Delgado, etc.
"Mark & Steven Bornfeld" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:yJeFe.8238$ab2.4886@trndny07...
Quoted message said:
Meg Worley said:
A pal and I were trying to remember and failing: Are there any TdF winners who were not that good as time-trialers? The history section of letour.com doesn't specify which stages were ITT, so I can't even figure it out on my own (although that sure beats getting work done this afternoon).
Any of you historians able to help us out here?
Rage away,
meg
Waiting with bated breath for Benjo. Of course, every year when the course is revealed, there are arguments as to whether courses favor climbers or TT specialists. Most of the pure climbers weren't top top TT riders (Van Impe, Bahamontes) but they weren't too shabby in any area. The cliche is that you gain seconds in the TTs but lose minutes on the climbs, and surely there have been years that the course took advantage of this.
The worst TT by the winner of the Tour is Gino Bartali's in 1948: 28th at 11'59". A year later he proved he could do better and finished second, but still at 7'02". Pantani's was 181th in 1998, but in the prologue and he lost only 48". Walkowiak (24th in 1956) and Aimar (18th in 1966) were also doing much worse than non-specialists as Robic, Bahamontes, Pingeon, Van Impe (winner of the TT in 1975), Delgado, etc.
"Mark & Steven Bornfeld" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:yJeFe.8238$ab2.4886@trndny07...
Quoted message said:
Meg Worley said:
A pal and I were trying to remember and failing: Are there any TdF winners who were not that good as time-trialers? The history section of letour.com doesn't specify which stages were ITT, so I can't even figure it out on my own (although that sure beats getting work done this afternoon).
Any of you historians able to help us out here?
Rage away,
meg
Waiting with bated breath for Benjo. Of course, every year when the course is revealed, there are arguments as to whether courses favor climbers or TT specialists. Most of the pure climbers weren't top top TT riders (Van Impe, Bahamontes) but they weren't too shabby in any area. The cliche is that you gain seconds in the TTs but lose minutes on the climbs, and surely there have been years that the course took advantage of this.
The worst TT by the winner of the Tour is Gino Bartali's in 1948: 28th at 11'59". A year later he proved he could do better and finished second, but still at 7'02". Pantani's was 181th in 1998, but in the prologue and he lost only 48". Walkowiak (24th in 1956) and Aimar (18th in 1966) were also doing much worse than non-specialists as Robic, Bahamontes, Pingeon, Van Impe (winner of the TT in 1975), Delgado, etc.
"Mark & Steven Bornfeld" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:yJeFe.8238$ab2.4886@trndny07...
Quoted message said:
Meg Worley said:
A pal and I were trying to remember and failing: Are there any TdF winners who were not that good as time-trialers? The history section of letour.com doesn't specify which stages were ITT, so I can't even figure it out on my own (although that sure beats getting work done this afternoon).
Any of you historians able to help us out here?
Rage away,
meg
Waiting with bated breath for Benjo. Of course, every year when the course is revealed, there are arguments as to whether courses favor climbers or TT specialists. Most of the pure climbers weren't top top TT riders (Van Impe, Bahamontes) but they weren't too shabby in any area. The cliche is that you gain seconds in the TTs but lose minutes on the climbs, and surely there have been years that the course took advantage of this.
The worst TT by the winner of the Tour is Gino Bartali's in 1948: 28th at 11'59". A year later he proved he could do better and finished second, but still at 7'02". Pantani's was 181th in 1998, but in the prologue and he lost only 48". Walkowiak (24th in 1956) and Aimar (18th in 1966) were also doing much worse than non-specialists as Robic, Bahamontes, Pingeon, Van Impe (winner of the TT in 1975), Delgado, etc.
