The Thread about Nothing....



531Aussie said:
I said this a while ago: for at least a few years, GCN have mostly been a compromised infomercial joke, who are beholden to their sponsors. They escape too much flack because they seem like top blokes who present stuff pleasantly and with some humour. I don't believe for a second that their sponsor's "aero", regular road bike is faster than that Lotus. Hambini poked fun at it at the time.

Their bike comparison tests annoy me, because it's too much about the wheels and tyres. They compare modern bikes with super-aero wheels and fast tyres to old bikes with parachute wheels and **** tyres, then say, "see? This new Canyon is WAY faster". They're reluctant to compare an old bike with 808s to a new bike with 32-hole, round-spoked Open Pros and old Gran Prix tyres.

Sure, it's meant to be harmless entertainment, but plenty of newbies go away thinking they need to spend 6 grand on an aero frame to keep up with their plonker mates on their Sunday morning coffee shop ride.
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They didn't have 808's back in the day, so why would they compare a bike from back then with 808's on? The other thing is, you're not getting 808's on that Lotus - unless you go back and get the very first model that had rims with an outside width of 25mm and even then it'll be a squeeze. It's literally about comparing old kit that we once loved to the new kit that we may think is a bit silly.

My 2010 Cracknfail SuperSix HiMod maxes out at 25mm wide rims and 23mm tires. Not enough space in the forks to fit 25's on a 25mm outside width rim.

They have done tests with older TT bikes and newer wheels and kit. It recall they dug up a Hotta from somewhere and had some fun with it.
 
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531Aussie said:
If riders wanna obsess over gear, they should do so about tyres, tubes and hubs, then rims. It's probably more cost-effective to churn through fast tyres than spend thousands on an "aero" frame
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Tires and tubes (or tubeless), yes. Bearings... unless you've got roubaix cobbles in the bearing races you're not going to make much of a difference.

I forget the guys name, but he was the head of engineering and BS at Zipp before going to re-start Silca, said back in the day to forget fancy bearings unless you want that last second in a hour long TT. They put ceramic bearings in Tony Martin's world championship TT wheels just for that one event but those were the $1,000 a set ceramics not the $300 whoflundungs from Alibaba.
 
classic1 said:
A mate owns a shop. He KNOWS the frame makes **** all difference in watts. He told a good customer who spends 1000s he'd get more improvement shaving his legs. I listened to an podcast with Rohan Dennis before "the incident". Done heaps of testing. I think he said the order in saving watts is position, helmet, wheels, clothing, tyres which had big watt savings and the frame was a very distant last, saving a few watts at best.
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Specialized once said that in their "win tunnel" they measure gains of between 50 and 70 seconds when going from unshaven to shaved legs.

I have a "mate" than has a PhD in fluid dynamics. He designs high pressure systems for hydro cracking technology that helps make petrol from the parts of oil that were once deemed to be "left overs" and destined to go to the asphalt tar pit. Something about pressurizing hydrogen to 4000psi at 3000F and mixing it with once tar like oil at ungodly velocity. In his spare time he races and often borrows equipment for testing from others like him that have way too much disposable income. Probably knows more about fluid dynamics than a dude that wrenches on bikes. He knows his stuff that well that a presentation he did on next generations fuels got the interest on the next set of presenters - the folks from NASA that were doing the sonic boomless supersonic plane. Chats after lead to him blagging tons of tunnel time at Ames in San Jose in one of the seldom used small wind tunnels.

Chet Kyle PhD, of human powered performance and 1984, 88 and 92 TT and track bike fame, believed the the same- that the frame had the possibility to be one of the biggest reducers in drag, just shy of the best set of wheels. Funnily enough, the dude from Lotus that designed the 108 for Barcelona thought the exact same thing... If you didn't geek out on the Cycling Science magazine in the late 80's and early 90's that ended up being a weighty tome of no BS research, a good number of pics of Kyles work can be found here:


He also debunked the BS on "cross chaining" big ring and big sprocket. Loses almost no power on a well maintained chain.

While most of the drag does come from the rider, the frame makes a huge difference. I know that with the same position on my old psuedo 653 TT bike and on a Cervelo P3 - both using my wheels (28 spoke Flo 30 rims with Dura Ace front hub and PowerTap rear), I'm about 2kmh faster on the Cervelo at 300 watts but the Cervelo would give me the option to get into a better position than my old bike would allow. That 653 was 76 degree seat.
 
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Pogi is eyeing the World Champs.

"That rainbow jersey looks good a Matthieu but I think it would look better on me." With 4,500 meters of climbing for the men, I'd say he'd have a chance.
 
classic1 said:
I may have missed bars in the above. Narrower bars with an aero profile.save heaps too
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Pogi is on 37cm wide bars. Custom ENVE units. 165mm cranks so he can get his overall position a little lower and compact.

I think I could learn to live with those rather than that cone of shame that Jonas had on his head during the last TT. Rather than throwing crisps in their face, a quick high pressure hose from behind and down the back of that conical garbage can...
 
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classic1 said:
I just watched the Spike Lee movie Da 5 Bloods.

Lee can sway from brilliant to ****. This was ****. Nearly turned it off it was that bad. BlacKKKlansman was ace but this sucked and it was at least 40 minutes too long. And Spike, you can make a point without laying it on with a trowel. Christ he over does it. The critics loved it though. Figures.

I rate Spike below his brothers Bruce and Christopher and way below his sister Sara on the Lee scale index.
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Geddy, Christopher, Bruce, Sara.

Watched the Director's Cut of Amadeus a few weeks back. That took a turn for the dark side...

Also on the craptacular side, The Shining mini-series. Apparently closer to Stephen King's vision in the book. Utterly forgettable. I enjoyed the book but enjoyed Kubrick's version much better.
 
swampy1970 said:
The other reason Pros rode tubs was the weight and supposedly comfort.
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I've also been told that, despite what we get told, a lot of pros prioritize comfort over stiffness in bikes because they do million miles over mostly rural roads. It's just the sprinters who put up with a slightly rougher ride for the stiffness. Eh, it might be ********
 
swampy1970 said:
They didn't have 808's back in the day, so why would they compare a bike from back then with 808's on? The other thing is, you're not getting 808's on that Lotus - unless you go back and get the very first model that had rims with an outside width of 25mm and even then it'll be a squeeze. It's literally about comparing old kit that we once loved to the new kit that we may think is a bit silly.
Click to expand...
Ok, how about some old Zipps, Heds or Cosmics on an older bike compared to a "super-bike" with MA40s? You don't think those tests are too much about the wheels are tyres? FFS, some of the GCN bike comparisons have the shittiest tyres imaginable on the older bikes, which gives them little chance
 
swampy1970 said:
Tires and tubes (or tubeless), yes. Bearings... unless you've got roubaix cobbles in the bearing races you're not going to make much of a difference.

I forget the guys name, but he was the head of engineering and BS at Zipp before going to re-start Silca, said back in the day to forget fancy bearings unless you want that last second in a hour long TT. They put ceramic bearings in Tony Martin's world championship TT wheels just for that one event but those were the $1,000 a set ceramics not the $300 whoflundungs from Alibaba.
Click to expand...
I mean just making sure hubs are running smoothly with new or new-ish steel bearings, not getting expensive bearings
 
swampy1970 said:
I think I could learn to live with those rather than that cone of shame that Jonas had on his head ....
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Speaking of shame, I DARE someone to go riding with an aero beak :D
1721739338377.png
 
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531Aussie said:
I've never seen this. It popped up on Youtube when I was watching something else. I put a note on my mirror about 30 years ago to get it on video or dvd, but never did.

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View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93Cb5tfD_PY
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That will keep me entertained this evening after I've watched the WorldSBK SSP race.
 
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