The Thread about Nothing....

[swampy1970]

When was this?

3 months ago following his crash in the Tour of the Basque Country or whatever it's called now.

Jonas Vingegaard suffers broken collarbone, ribs, Evenepoel fractures clavicle, scapula in Itzulia Basque Country crash

Jay Vine suffers fractured vertebrae in mass fall

www.cyclingnews.com

He was in ICU for approx a week and then late April transferred by plane to a hospital of his choosing. Dude was in bad shape. I'm not a fan of his but glad his outcome is good.

 

[swampy1970]

P

This prediction is looking good Swampy

It could depend on the weather. Stands to reason that Jonas who comes from a land of ice loves the hot weather and Pogi doesn't (sarcasm) but I've been wondering about the Remco wildcard. If he had persuaded Pogi to go with him on his attack the other day, Jonas would be third now.

 

[swampy1970]

Is anybody going "hmmm" about Pogacar?

Does the Giro and wins, then gets Covid but bounces back and looks like he's got the TdF sewn up.

I don't believe in freakish physiology.

I don't think that record is all about freakish physiology.

Pogi was sitting in the wheel of Jourgensen and Jonas and apparently pulling some of the best watts that he's done in the third week of the Tour just to stay in the wheel. Compare to Pantani in 98, he didn't launch his effort until a 1/3 or 1/2 way up the climb. The bottom half is steeper, so the time differences would be greater. A chunk of that time would be just from this.

Doping. 1998 was "The Festina Affair" year. Dopers **** their pants and their schedules probably were shot to ****. Pantani was likely one of those, given that when he broke his femur in 96 his hospital records showed a hematocrit level of 60.1%. The uber doped Pantani we all knew wasn't allowed to be the uber doped rider he wanted to be because the Tour slapped a 50% limit asap. I can't even imagine how much of a shock to the system that would have been.

Equipment. We fondly look back to kit of old and think it was the best and then some dude rides both under similar conditions and proves us wrong. It's easy to forget how much better modern bikes are. Would you think that a Lotus 110 superbike that Boardman rode to TdF Prologue yellow smashing Indurain by more than a dozen seconds would be slower than a modern road bike without tri-bars? That was a full on state of the art TT bike back when Pantani was riding. The stuff of legends.

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View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4vUncijjDo


I couldn't image a time where the bike that Boardman used for the "Ultimate hour record" in 96 (he used the road bike with two chainstays and not the single sided one that was ultra aero for the Barcelona Olympics in 92) would be slower with a rider on it that a "standard" road bike. Ok, this wasn't a "scientific test" but at a moderately controlled level the result were consistent over 4 rides by 2 different good riders.

The other part of the equipment is the wheels. Tubulars glued with the good ol' Mastik 1 had **** rolling resistance. **** ro;;omg resistance to even compared to clinchers of the day. Michelin were even saying that with their clinchers of the time. NuTrak won me over on that one - plus their rubber was gumball sticky and ace in corners. Rolling resistance wise, tubs where garbage compare to tubeless systems of today. Granted, if you glued your tubs on with shelac or other tack tyre glue, things would be closer but for standard road use it's the way it is. Two years ago I had a quick ride on a coworkers Pinarello Dogma with Evne SES 4.5 wheels on, just like Pogi is riding. He had Conti 5000 standard road race tyres on (Pogi was riding the TT tyres on that stage) and it felt like I was somehow powered by the bike. I'd been a big doubter of "super wide is better" but his 28C tyres were closer to 31mm and when I rode up the ramp out of our parking garage it was just a brain ****. It didn't make sense. For reference my "good bike" is the Dura Ace equivalent to what Nibali rode to Giro victory in 2010 and it felt utter **** compared to this. That said my Cracknfail is ungodly on the descents. It's like it reads my brain...

But the other factor is the weather. Was there a huge wind that blew in just the right direction. Was there low air pressure. Was riding a shorter stage a factor, stages are getting shorter...

I have 20% sceptic living in the back of my head and 80% until they get popped doping it's all good. Everything advances - the riders genetically, diet, training and resting and even doping. There will always be folks looks for an edge. It's the way of the world. Personally I would like to see stiffer penalties for those that are popped, base it on a ranking scale: rider failed test on the "Bumpenshitzen cobbled van ballenbreaker" neopro race gets banned for 4 years. ProTour rider dopes in a conquest for TdF glory - ban the whole ****ing team for life. Make the stakes that high.

 

[swampy1970]

I got the 90 figure from this video article... a vid I stumbled on during the unspeakably dull stage after the first rest day.

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What an amazing athlete. Rather prickly character, but I admire his extraordinary talent and obdurate competitive spirit, along with his intolerance for anything that would smack of "woke tosh".

Do you get the impression that riders back then were a lot more 'chunky'? Today's riders seem to look emaciated by comparison.

Hinault was ace. Shame that he went through the **** of riding through snow in Liege in 1980. A beyond epic ride that probably helped shitcan his career - even though it was good, but not as good, afterwards.

If you look at Jonas, yes. Too skinny. Pogi, no. He's looking "mr muscles" this year and before that he just looked like a skinny young early 20-something racer.

VdP doesn't looks overly skinny and smashes it on the one day races - he looks "about right."

Van Aert always looks slightly too tubby - probably because of the whiny ******** he carries with him. I could go off on a rant about that selfish **** but I don't think he is deserving of my time right now.

Sometimes I think Roglic pushes the weight loss too hard and maybe that's why he always gets hurt when he crashes - then again I think his late coming to the bike racing game doesn't do him any favors in the bike handling department. Sometimes, watching him going down hills makes my ass pucker up more than the most violent of horror movies. I dig his tenacity but ****, his descending leaves something to be desired but hats off for the effort. When your race history includes as many DNF's with broken shoulders or shoulders looking like raw steak as it does finishes, maybe you should reconsider your future.

 

[classic1]

My tactic for Vingegaard to beat Pogicar was not to crash in the Basque Tour 3 months ago.

You won't get this sort of insightful coverage on SBS people.

Cadel Evans is on. The boring weirdo nearly made me fall asleep. "Siri, show me someone with aspergers".

 

[paulambry]

Speaking of crashes, has there ever been a previous period where so many top riders (Froome + Bernal + Evenepoel + Vinegaard) have had such serious crashes?

 

[classic1]

I think Mitch Docker said on the Cycling Podcast a former little bird at the UCI called Mick Rogers said stacks had increase by 50% since they brought in the 3km rule. No idea why.

There's a few ex pros out there speculating a number of neo pros are getting signed up based on Watt outputs without having the skills, and that the current trend for training over racing means riders are not as comfortable riding in a big bunch. They lose skills by not racing. Docker and McKenzie both say it about the new pros. Old school racing everything as kids.

 

[swampy1970]

My tactic for Vingegaard to beat Pogicar was not to crash in the Basque Tour 3 months ago.

You won't get this sort of insightful coverage on SBS people.

Cadel Evans is on. The boring weirdo nearly made me fall asleep. "Siri, show me someone with aspergers".

I'm not sure that tactic would have worked...

 

[swampy1970]

I'm predicting that Pogi will take Remco in the TT.

Just to mentally screw Jonas over for next year...

 

[paulambry]

Agreed. And I wouldn't be surprised if Remco comes in third. Jonas will be doing his best to salvage something from the stage, even if Pogi beats him.

 

[531Aussie]

I've never seen this. There are a few shots of the Aussies, Rob Crowe, Grant Rice, Darren Lawson and Rob McLachlan. They crashed in the warm-up. Despite being ranked number 2, they finished 12th, partly because Crowe got a puncture

Interview with Rob Crowe - 1992 Olympics Team Time Trial | Mummu

These were the words bouncing around Rob Crowe’s head as he set off on a ‘suicidal’ solo breakaway on the final stage of the 1991 Tour of Tasmania. Read!

blog.mummucycling.com

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View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8HixKu7ZhU

 

[531Aussie]

Can remember a mate telling me about this freak skinny teenager kicking everyone's **** at VFL Park in the mid 90s, lapping the field, with fields containing international reps. Cadel Evans. Dad saw him win that Tour of Tassie up Mt Wellington, I think 98. Smashed Neil Stephens.

Do you remember who it was?

 

[531Aussie]

I couldn't image a time where the bike that Boardman used for the "Ultimate hour record" in 96 (he used the road bike with two chainstays and not the single sided one that was ultra aero for the Barcelona Olympics in 92) would be slower with a rider on it that a "standard" road bike. Ok, this wasn't a "scientific test" but at a moderately controlled level the result were consistent over 4 rides by 2 different good riders.

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I said this a while ago: for at least a few years, GCN have mostly been a compromised infomercial joke, who are beholden to their sponsors. They escape too much flack because they seem like top blokes who present stuff pleasantly and with some humour. I don't believe for a second that their sponsor's "aero", regular road bike is faster than that Lotus. Hambini poked fun at it at the time.

Their bike comparison tests annoy me, because it's too much about the wheels and tyres. They compare modern bikes with super-aero wheels and fast tyres to old bikes with parachute wheels and **** tyres, then say, "see? This new Canyon is WAY faster". They're reluctant to compare an old bike with 808s to a new bike with 32-hole, round-spoked Open Pros and old Gran Prix tyres.

Sure, it's meant to be harmless entertainment, but plenty of newbies go away thinking they need to spend 6 grand on an aero frame to keep up with their plonker mates on their Sunday morning coffee shop ride.

 

[531Aussie]

The other part of the equipment is the wheels. Tubulars glued with the good ol' Mastik 1 had **** rolling resistance. **** ro;;omg resistance to even compared to clinchers of the day. Michelin were even saying that with their clinchers of the time. NuTrak won me over on that one - plus their rubber was gumball sticky and ace in corners. Rolling resistance wise, tubs where garbage compare to tubeless systems of today. Granted, if you glued your tubs on with shelac or other tack tyre glue, things would be closer but for standard road use it's the way it is. Two years ago I had a quick ride on a coworkers Pinarello Dogma with Evne SES 4.5 wheels on, just like Pogi is riding. He had Conti 5000 standard road race tyres on (Pogi was riding the TT tyres on that stage) and it felt like I was somehow powered by the bike. I'd been a big doubter of "super wide is better" but his 28C tyres were closer to 31mm and when I rode up the ramp out of our parking garage it was just a brain ****. It didn't make sense. For reference my "good bike" is the Dura Ace equivalent to what Nibali rode to Giro victory in 2010 and it felt utter **** compared to this. That said my Cracknfail is ungodly on the descents. It's like it reads my brain...

I was told that one of the main reasons pros used tubulars was because they're heaps likely to get pinch flats, and because they're easier/safer to ride on flat for a few miles if they really have to.

Speaking of which, for only the second time ever, the other night, I got pinch flats in both tubes when I rode over a rock. Boo. Like most regular humans, I carry only one spare tube. The holes in the front tube were way too big to patch. The rear wasn't as bad, but because there were two holes and it was a bit dark, it took me two shots to patch it successfully. The whole ******** took about 40 minutes. Talk about first world problems, hey? Hee hee

 

[classic1]

The one that got me Nev was descending Kemmelberg riding a C40 with a pair of 32 spoke Ambrosio rims, wobbling around on a straight bit like it was an old Penny farthing, then belting down there on a modern bike like it was on an airport runaway. Called ******** straight away. Colnago geometry is dialled, compare a modern Pinarello or Specialized and there's **** all difference on the geometry. I think my Dogma is like 5mm longer than my Colnago Dream (exact same geometry as a C40 or C50), everything else is near identical, angles, wheelbase, front centre, the lot. The only real difference in that descent circumstance is tyres and a little bit of frame flex.

 

[classic1]

I said this a while ago: for at least a few years, GCN have mostly been a compromised infomercial joke, who are beholden to their sponsors. They escape too much flack because they seem like top blokes who present stuff pleasantly and with some humour. I don't believe for a second that their sponsor's "aero", regular road bike is faster than that Lotus. Hambini poked fun at it at the time.

Their bike comparison tests annoy me, because it's too much about the wheels and tyres. They compare modern bikes with super-aero wheels and fast tyres to old bikes with parachute wheels and **** tyres, then say, "see? This new Canyon is WAY faster". They're reluctant to compare an old bike with 808s to a new bike with 32-hole, round-spoked Open Pros and old Gran Prix tyres.

Sure, it's meant to be harmless entertainment, but plenty of newbies go away thinking they need to spend 6 grand on an aero frame to keep up with their plonker mates on their Sunday morning coffee shop ride.

A mate owns a shop. He KNOWS the frame makes **** all difference in watts. He told a good customer who spends 1000s he'd get more improvement shaving his legs. I listened to an podcast with Rohan Dennis before "the incident". Done heaps of testing. I think he said the order in saving watts is position, helmet, wheels, clothing, tyres which had big watt savings and the frame was a very distant last, saving a few watts at best.

 

[classic1]

I may have missed bars in the above. Narrower bars with an aero profile.save heaps too

 

[531Aussie]

A mate owns a shop. He KNOWS the frame makes **** all difference in watts. He told a good customer who spends 1000s he'd get more improvement shaving his legs. I listened to an podcast with Rohan Dennis before "the incident". Done heaps of testing. I think he said the order in saving watts is position, helmet, wheels, clothing, tyres which had big watt savings and the frame was a very distant last, saving a few watts at best.

If riders wanna obsess over gear, they should do so about tyres, tubes and hubs, then rims. It's probably more cost-effective to churn through fast tyres than spend thousands on an "aero" frame

 

[classic1]

I just watched the Spike Lee movie Da 5 Bloods.

Lee can sway from brilliant to ****. This was ****. Nearly turned it off it was that bad. BlacKKKlansman was ace but this sucked and it was at least 40 minutes too long. And Spike, you can make a point without laying it on with a trowel. Christ he over does it. The critics loved it though. Figures.

I rate Spike below his brothers Bruce and Christopher and way below his sister Sara on the Lee scale index.

 

[swampy1970]

I was told that one of the main reasons pros used tubulars was because they're heaps likely to get pinch flats, and because they're easier/safer to ride on flat for a few miles if they really have to.

Speaking of which, for only the second time ever, the other night, I got pinch flats in both tubes when I rode over a rock. Boo. Like most regular humans, I carry only one spare tube. The holes in the front tube were way too big to patch. The rear wasn't as bad, but because there were two holes and it was a bit dark, it took me two shots to patch it successfully. The whole ******** took about 40 minutes. Talk about first world problems, hey? Hee hee

Stage 2 of the Giro comes to mind. Pogi got a flat and wanted to stop before the sharp corner at the start of the climb - same corner where Pantani biffed it in 98. His team car said "change after the corner" and then watched Pogi have a quick lie down... Just like Pantani, he got back up and won the stage.

The other reason Pros rode tubs was the weight and supposedly comfort.

Depending on where I rode, I'd sometimes take two tubes. The roads I really like are subject to change on a weekly basis, especially in the winter.