Stile help please

I noticed that Message-ID: <[email hidden]> from GSV
Three Minds in a Can contained the following:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I doubt if these dog friendly Gaps "should" be provided though.

"There is no legal requirement to make provision for dogs, despite the
fact that they are an accepted accompaniment for walkers" is what my
Shropshire 'laws and standards for stiles' crib sheet says. So don't
take any dogs you can't carry, or which can't do basic agility!

There has only been one stile that I have had to lift Magic over and
that was a metal ladder affair. Having said that, the standard stile
design (staggered step affairs) isn't very dog friendly. A bit too
complex to jump cleanly and difficult for a dog to climb.

--
Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

I noticed that Message-ID: <[email hidden]> from GSV
Three Minds in a Can contained the following:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Perhaps they could install "Kissing Gates" instead.

They're talking about (some places) it under the 'disabled access', no
discrimination, EU laws, etc. requirements. Personally I can't see that
a way to get a wheelchair, Zimmer frame, or whatever onto XYZ-moor is
particularly helpful, given the state of the paths once you get there,
but hey, this is bureaucracy we are talking about, it doesn't ahve to
make sense.

I think a wheelchair would be a no no for most cross country walks,
unless you could get a motorised track laying one. But there must be
plenty of people who can walk ok or reasonably ok but find stiles
challenging.
--
Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

In article <[email hidden]>, Fran
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Agreed wholeheartedly. PC is guaranteed to make me see red.
If I join a committee I expect to see a chairman. It's a job
description, not a reflection on the post holder. Bring back
golliwogs and Little Black Sambo, say I. Either that or ban
Goldilocks since she was so appallingly caucasian...

Not forgetting the Black and White Minstrels - another victim of PC.
--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk

In article <[email hidden]>, Dave Fawthrop
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 19:52:54 +0000, Simon Caldwell
<[email hidden]> wrote:

| On Sat, 8 Jan 2005 17:41:27 +0000, "W. D. Grey"
| <[email hidden]> wrote:
|
| >
| >All things in moderation or are you always such a pratt!
| >
| >"There but for the Grace of God go I" as the saying goes.
|
| If God chooses to bestow his grace elsewhere and I end up in a
| wheelchair, I sincerely hope I'll retain a sense of humour.

Hope you won't demand wheelchair access along Striding Edge.

Should b OK if they've only got one wheel!
--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk

W. D. Grey said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Fran
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Agreed wholeheartedly. PC is guaranteed to make me see red.
If I join a committee I expect to see a chairman. It's a job
description, not a reflection on the post holder. Bring back
golliwogs and Little Black Sambo, say I. Either that or ban
Goldilocks since she was so appallingly caucasian...

Not forgetting the Black and White Minstrels - another victim of PC.

PC is nauseating, imo, but not all common consideration amounts to PC.

No-one was caricaturing either Goldilocks or the White Minstrels based
on their appearance: they were with gollywogs, Little Black Sambo and
the Black Minstrels, though. I feel there's a genuine distinction
there.

I'm sure no-one intended to be offensive when gollywogs, Little Black
Sambo and the B&W Minstrels first began, but don't we live and learn?
Things change. Terms commonly used in my youth to refer to physically
and mentally disabled people aren't used any more, because it turned
out they were hurtful.

Sometimes it's not easy to know where to draw the line between PC and
common consideration, but I've no doubt that there is a line to be
drawn.

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

Allan Gould <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

How long will it be until this happens?

Two things cause this thought
a) if someone wants public funding to build a new trail in the USA, it
has to be wheel-chair-accessible
b) I am told by someone who has just bought a new (private) house
(Yorkshire) that the downstairs toilet is wheel-chair accessible: all
toilets in newly built houses have to be wheel-chair accessible
(Building Regs)

Many high paths are already flagged, although I haven't seen many, I
last did the Snake Path when it was a morass of mud and snow.

However, since few wheelchair users will read this group, a few
thoughts: ;-)

Nine years ago my wife's cancer reached her spine, and she could not
walk. I hired a wheelchair as soon as she was out of hospital, and
bought a brand new car, determined that she was going to get some fresh
air, resigned to the fact that she would not walk again.

I headed for the local country park, (Dominic knows which one), because
the paths had been gravelled, and gates had been installed which allow
wheelchairs to pass. It seemed an ideal opportunity to take her to
our favourite walk, where we also use to take the dog.
Unfortunately, having got her there, about twenty yards along the path,
the roughness caused her such pain that I had to give up and retreat,
dismayed beyond belief.

I suppose it would detract from such areas if the path had been tarmac,
but it would have enhanced the last few months of my wife's life no end!
I am not suggesting that this should be widespread(!), just perhaps
appropriate areas which attract older people.

In fact, our local pavement flags were so badly aligned that it was only
possible to proceed at a snail's pace, and I'm glad to say that our "PC"
local authority have remedied this, by laying tarmac instead, and by
lowering kerbs at junctions to make life bearable for wheelchair and
electric trolley users.

I don't regard this as PC, I regard it as helping those who are less
lucky than myself to have a slightly better quality of life.
I realise that it is difficult to appreciate this when we have all our
faculties.
:-)

I don't know where you obtained the info about new trails in the US.
Reference?

The idea of making downstairs lavatories easier for wheelchair use seems
a sound one, rather than the victim or the local council having to pay
for expensive alterations if and when necessary. This happened when
a lifetime friend of mine contracted MND, and took three years to die.

You have to look ahead, realise that we are all living longer, and that
by time some of you are in your 90s you might have some mobility
problems.

Meanwhile - happy walking!
--
Gordon Harris

On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 23:57:25 +0000, Peewiglet <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

W. D. Grey said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Fran
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Agreed wholeheartedly. PC is guaranteed to make me see red.
If I join a committee I expect to see a chairman. It's a job
description, not a reflection on the post holder. Bring back
golliwogs and Little Black Sambo, say I. Either that or ban
Goldilocks since she was so appallingly caucasian...

Not forgetting the Black and White Minstrels - another victim of PC.

PC is nauseating, imo, but not all common consideration amounts to PC.

No-one was caricaturing either Goldilocks or the White Minstrels based
on their appearance: they were with gollywogs, Little Black Sambo and
the Black Minstrels, though. I feel there's a genuine distinction
there.

I'm sure no-one intended to be offensive when gollywogs, Little Black
Sambo and the B&W Minstrels first began, but don't we live and learn?
Things change. Terms commonly used in my youth to refer to physically
and mentally disabled people aren't used any more, because it turned
out they were hurtful.

Sometimes it's not easy to know where to draw the line between PC and
common consideration, but I've no doubt that there is a line to be
drawn.

Best wishes,

Gollywogs are back - seen just before Christmas. I'd have bought one,
but we already have a superb specimen.

--

R
o
o
n
e
y

Gordon Harris said:

Allan Gould <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

How long will it be until this happens?

Two things cause this thought
a) if someone wants public funding to build a new trail in the USA, it
has to be wheel-chair-accessible
b) I am told by someone who has just bought a new (private) house
(Yorkshire) that the downstairs toilet is wheel-chair accessible: all
toilets in newly built houses have to be wheel-chair accessible
(Building Regs)

Many high paths are already flagged, although I haven't seen many, I
last did the Snake Path when it was a morass of mud and snow.

However, since few wheelchair users will read this group, a few
thoughts: ;-)

Nine years ago my wife's cancer reached her spine, and she could not
walk. I hired a wheelchair as soon as she was out of hospital, and
bought a brand new car, determined that she was going to get some fresh
air, resigned to the fact that she would not walk again.

I headed for the local country park, (Dominic knows which one), because
the paths had been gravelled, and gates had been installed which allow
wheelchairs to pass. It seemed an ideal opportunity to take her to
our favourite walk, where we also use to take the dog.
Unfortunately, having got her there, about twenty yards along the path,
the roughness caused her such pain that I had to give up and retreat,
dismayed beyond belief.

I suppose it would detract from such areas if the path had been tarmac,
but it would have enhanced the last few months of my wife's life no end!
I am not suggesting that this should be widespread(!), just perhaps
appropriate areas which attract older people.

In fact, our local pavement flags were so badly aligned that it was only
possible to proceed at a snail's pace, and I'm glad to say that our "PC"
local authority have remedied this, by laying tarmac instead, and by
lowering kerbs at junctions to make life bearable for wheelchair and
electric trolley users.

I don't regard this as PC, I regard it as helping those who are less
lucky than myself to have a slightly better quality of life.
I realise that it is difficult to appreciate this when we have all our
faculties.
:-)

I don't know where you obtained the info about new trails in the US.
Reference?

The idea of making downstairs lavatories easier for wheelchair use seems
a sound one, rather than the victim or the local council having to pay
for expensive alterations if and when necessary. This happened when
a lifetime friend of mine contracted MND, and took three years to die.

You have to look ahead, realise that we are all living longer, and that
by time some of you are in your 90s you might have some mobility
problems.

Meanwhile - happy walking!

No reason at all why country parks shouldn't get wheelchair access -
but *not* gravel paths - whose bright idea was that? Not someone who's
ever used a wheelchair!

--

R
o
o
n
e
y

In article <[email hidden]>, W. D. Grey
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Fran
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Agreed wholeheartedly. PC is guaranteed to make me see red.
If I join a committee I expect to see a chairman. It's a job
description, not a reflection on the post holder. Bring back
golliwogs and Little Black Sambo, say I. Either that or ban
Goldilocks since she was so appallingly caucasian...

Not forgetting the Black and White Minstrels - another victim of PC.

Aye, but it were cr*p so I was glad when it went!

--

Dominic Sexton

In article <[email hidden]>, Gordon Harris
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

I suppose it would detract from such areas if the path had been tarmac,
but it would have enhanced the last few months of my wife's life no
end!
I am not suggesting that this should be widespread(!), just perhaps
appropriate areas which attract older people.

My sister-in-law's father has fairly advanced MS. He has a fancy
electric buggy with fat tyres which take out a lot of the minor bumps
but still finds it very uncomfortable to ride along unsurfaced paths for
any distance. Over the holidays we were trying to think of places to
take him out in the countryside for a bit of the fresh air and sadly
could not think of many.

Any pointers for tarmac paths in attractive settings within an hour's
drive from Crewe would be appreciated...

Until you have an involvement with people who have these needs it is
very difficult to appreciate how hard it is for them to do things we
take for granted.

--

Dominic Sexton

In message <[email hidden]>, Dominic Sexton
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Gordon Harris
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

I suppose it would detract from such areas if the path had been
tarmac, but it would have enhanced the last few months of my wife's
life no end!
I am not suggesting that this should be widespread(!), just perhaps
appropriate areas which attract older people.

My sister-in-law's father has fairly advanced MS. He has a fancy
electric buggy with fat tyres which take out a lot of the minor bumps
but still finds it very uncomfortable to ride along unsurfaced paths
for any distance. Over the holidays we were trying to think of places
to take him out in the countryside for a bit of the fresh air and sadly
could not think of many.

Any pointers for tarmac paths in attractive settings within an hour's
drive from Crewe would be appreciated...

There is a path along the river Lune starting from Halton just to the
North of Lancaster that might fit the bill. The journey time from Crewe
to Lancaster is probably about 80 minutes, but the distance from the
motorway to the start of the walk is about 5 minutes at the most (though
a steep, narrow and bendy 5 minutes)

--
Michael Farthing
Aardvark Ltd

In article <[email hidden]>, Geoff Berrow
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

I think a wheelchair would be a no no for most cross country walks,
unless you could get a motorised track laying one. But there must be
plenty of people who can walk ok or reasonably ok but find stiles
challenging.

The effort required to push an adult laden wheelchair up Pen-y-Fan
wouldn't bear consideration yet I saw a young lady pushing one of those
three wheeled child buggies up, and by damn she was struggling. The
buggie wasn't much different in weight to a wheelchair IMO.

I think no one would consider a policy of general wheelchair access, but
the are some lowland paths which might be accessible to disabled folk.

--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk

On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 10:54:51 +0000, Dominic Sexton
<[email hidden]> uttered:

Quoted message said:

My sister-in-law's father has fairly advanced MS. He has a fancy
electric buggy with fat tyres which take out a lot of the minor bumps
but still finds it very uncomfortable to ride along unsurfaced paths for
any distance. Over the holidays we were trying to think of places to
take him out in the countryside for a bit of the fresh air and sadly
could not think of many.

Any pointers for tarmac paths in attractive settings within an hour's
drive from Crewe would be appreciated...

Have you though of cycle paths, they're footpaths too.

--
Dewi,

(remove spin for email)

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

No reason at all why country parks shouldn't get wheelchair access -
but *not* gravel paths - whose bright idea was that? Not someone who's
ever used a wheelchair!

Or even a modern (I don't mean those 3-wheeled things)
pushchair. My old pram will cope admirably, but those stupid
little 4" wheels really are the pits when it comes to pushing
the things on anything other than a tarmac path.
--
All the best to everyone in 2005
- Fran

Fran said:

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

No reason at all why country parks shouldn't get wheelchair access -
but *not* gravel paths - whose bright idea was that? Not someone who's
ever used a wheelchair!

Or even a modern (I don't mean those 3-wheeled things)
pushchair. My old pram will cope admirably, but those stupid
little 4" wheels really are the pits when it comes to pushing
the things on anything other than a tarmac path.

That's right. The newer All Terrain Buggies look quite good though.

--

R
o
o
n
e
y

In article <[email hidden]>, Dewi
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 10:54:51 +0000, Dominic Sexton
<[email hidden]> uttered:

Quoted message said:

My sister-in-law's father has fairly advanced MS. He has a fancy
electric buggy with fat tyres which take out a lot of the minor bumps
but still finds it very uncomfortable to ride along unsurfaced paths for
any distance. Over the holidays we were trying to think of places to
take him out in the countryside for a bit of the fresh air and sadly
could not think of many.

Any pointers for tarmac paths in attractive settings within an hour's
drive from Crewe would be appreciated...

Have you though of cycle paths, they're footpaths too.

Yes, we know of a few but finding a few more would give him some extra
interest. Several reservoirs near here have good tarmac access roads so
when the weather improves he will hopefully get out to see a few new
areas.

--

Dominic Sexton

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

No reason at all why country parks shouldn't get wheelchair access -
but *not* gravel paths - whose bright idea was that? Not someone who's
ever used a wheelchair!

Or even a modern (I don't mean those 3-wheeled things)
pushchair. My old pram will cope admirably, but those stupid
little 4" wheels really are the pits when it comes to pushing
the things on anything other than a tarmac path.

That's right. The newer All Terrain Buggies look quite good though.

No doubt some are - the ones made by Land Rover, for instance;
however I suspect the majority seen around are no more than
expensive status symbols and of very limited use off road.
--
All the best to everyone in 2005
- Fran

"Fran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> No reason at all why country parks shouldn't get wheelchair access -
> but *not* gravel paths - whose bright idea was that? Not someone who's
> ever used a wheelchair!
>
Or even a modern (I don't mean those 3-wheeled things)
pushchair. My old pram will cope admirably, but those stupid
little 4" wheels really are the pits when it comes to pushing
the things on anything other than a tarmac path.

That's right. The newer All Terrain Buggies look quite good though.

No doubt some are - the ones made by Land Rover, for instance;
however I suspect the majority seen around are no more than
expensive status symbols and of very limited use off road.

Sorry - isn't that a definition of Land Rover??

druidh

On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 14:18:27 GMT, "druidh" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Fran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

>> No reason at all why country parks shouldn't get wheelchair access -
>> but *not* gravel paths - whose bright idea was that? Not someone who's
>> ever used a wheelchair!
>>
>Or even a modern (I don't mean those 3-wheeled things)
>pushchair. My old pram will cope admirably, but those stupid
>little 4" wheels really are the pits when it comes to pushing
>the things on anything other than a tarmac path.

That's right. The newer All Terrain Buggies look quite good though.

No doubt some are - the ones made by Land Rover, for instance;
however I suspect the majority seen around are no more than
expensive status symbols and of very limited use off road.

Sorry - isn't that a definition of Land Rover??

That's a definition of Range Rover.

No one buys a Land Rover for the school run - they are basic, to say
the least. The kids would not approve.

--

R
o
o
n
e
y

In article <[email hidden]>, Rooney
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 14:18:27 GMT, "druidh" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Fran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] said...
> That's right. The newer All Terrain Buggies look quite good though.
>
No doubt some are - the ones made by Land Rover, for instance;
however I suspect the majority seen around are no more than
expensive status symbols and of very limited use off road.

Sorry - isn't that a definition of Land Rover??

That's a definition of Range Rover.

No one buys a Land Rover for the school run - they are basic, to say
the least. The kids would not approve.

The Disco is quite refined but you are right about the Defender.

--

Dominic Sexton