Speed displays

lardyninja said:

There's a section of road near here with several traffic islands. Not
only is it notorious for speeding but it seems that many motorists
here seem to think that the 2 seconds saved on their journey to the
back of the next queue is worth risking the lives of cyclists by
squeezing them at these islands. In fact one of them scared the life
out of me last week as he miscalculated and ended up skidding to a
halt right next to me and almost hitting the bollard.

Anyway, today they've installed one of those displays which tells
speeders how fast they are going and to slow down. Of the admittedly
small number of motorists I saw on my journey going past this sign, it
didn't seems to make any difference to their driving. Is there any
evidence that they actually do any good or are they just a waste of
money?

LN

Conclusions of TRL548:

Clearly, drivers can be influenced to reduce speed when
they are specifically targeted, with fixed signs alone
likely to have less effect.

Vehicle-activated signs appear to be very effective in
reducing speeds; in particular, they are capable of
reducing the number of drivers who exceed the speed
limit and who contribute disproportionately to the
accident risk, without the need for enforcement such as
safety cameras.

Vehicle-activated signs can be operated at thresholds
well below normal police enforcement levels.

There is no evidence that in time, drivers become less
responsive to the signs, even over three years.

Operating costs are also low.

In this study, a substantial accident reduction has been
demonstrated.

pk

"lardyninja" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anyway, today they've installed one of those displays which tells
speeders how fast they are going and to slow down. Of the admittedly
small number of motorists I saw on my journey going past this sign, it
didn't seems to make any difference to their driving. Is there any
evidence that they actually do any good or are they just a waste of
money?

LN

The ones in Fakenham are ignored by the vast majority of drivers - this
includes the 20mph limit ones on the road that includes the main pedestrian
& cycle ways into Fakenham College & High School.

p.k. said:

There is no evidence that in time, drivers become less
responsive to the signs, even over three years.

Did the study find "boy racer" types who would view the sign as a
challenge, ie. "whats the biggest number we can get on it?"
--
Chris Johns

wafflycat said:

"lardyninja" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anyway, today they've installed one of those displays which tells
speeders how fast they are going and to slow down. Of the admittedly
small number of motorists I saw on my journey going past this sign, it
didn't seems to make any difference to their driving. Is there any
evidence that they actually do any good or are they just a waste of
money?

LN

The ones in Fakenham are ignored by the vast majority of drivers - this
includes the 20mph limit ones on the road that includes the main
pedestrian & cycle ways into Fakenham College & High School.

According to a TRL study, the 20 mph ones in Fakenham resulted in mean
speeds reducing from 32.5 mph to 25.0 mph at one site, and from 28.5 mph
to 23.4 mph at another. At the site with 'before' data, the proportion
of vehicles exceeding 35 mph was reduced from 70% to 12%, and the
proportion exceeding 30 mph dropped from 93% to 42%.

The TRL results tend to suggest that the impact of the signs in Fakenham
is very significant indeed.

There is increasing evidence that anti-car bigots resent the the use of
these type of 'vehicle activated signs' because of their success, and
attempt to discredit them at every opportunity. Some refuse to
acknowledge the fact that road safety can be improved by consent, rather
than by criminalising large proportions of the motoring population.
Suggestions have been made that the signs are being misused in some
places to diminish their reputation, and to maintain speed cameras as
the number one road safety tool, because of their superior revenue
raising powers.

--
Matt B

lardyninja said the following on 06/11/2006 14:11:

Quoted message said:

Anyway, today they've installed one of those displays which tells
speeders how fast they are going and to slow down. Of the admittedly
small number of motorists I saw on my journey going past this sign, it
didn't seems to make any difference to their driving. Is there any
evidence that they actually do any good or are they just a waste of
money?

I'd go with the latter. We have some here that flash up a supercilious
"50" (in a 50 limit) at anything much over 45. They are universally
ignored. I'm sure some civil servant somewhere will spout statistics
about their effectiveness, but statistics on paper never match real life.

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

We have a couple of these near where I live and I wonder whether there's a difference in speed at the sensor and 200 metres after it. It's seems to me that, just like they do for cameras, people slow down 'til they've passed the "trigger point" (don't know what it's really called) then speed up again.

Luckily I don't need to worry about such machines. My 20yr old renault five sees to that; 0-60 eventually. Last year it managed 2500 miles. 3000 less than my Il Pompino.

And finally, if she's on here, thanks to the young lady on a very whizzy bit of kit(chen [censored]) who stopped next to me on Priory Lane last week and very politely asked me if I knew my brake light was out (car not bike).

Matt B said:

Suggestions have been made that the signs are being
misused in some places to diminish their reputation, and to maintain
speed cameras as the number one road safety tool, because of their
superior revenue raising powers.

I've seen reports to that effect too (can't find them at the moment.

VAS = Cost

Camera = Revenue

Which one do budgets & financial targets tend to encourage?

pk

lardyninja said:

There's a section of road near here with several traffic islands. Not
only is it notorious for speeding but it seems that many motorists here
seem to think that the 2 seconds saved on their journey to the back of
the next queue is worth risking the lives of cyclists by squeezing them
at these islands. In fact one of them scared the life out of me last
week as he miscalculated and ended up skidding to a halt right next to
me and almost hitting the bollard.

Anyway, today they've installed one of those displays which tells
speeders how fast they are going and to slow down. Of the admittedly
small number of motorists I saw on my journey going past this sign, it
didn't seems to make any difference to their driving. Is there any
evidence that they actually do any good or are they just a waste of
money?

LN

the light up ones work quite well localy which has low traffic, where my
girlfriend lives they do not where they seem to be totaly ingnored, i
suspect thats mostly due to the heavy traffic, which has a sort of herd
mentality.

roger

Paul Boyd twisted the electrons to say:

Quoted message said:

I'd go with the latter. We have some here that flash up a supercilious
"50" (in a 50 limit) at anything much over 45.

There's one on the approach to a village near York. Due to the curvature
of the road it's possible to set off it's "30mph sign" whilst still
outside the 30 limit, it's also then possible ("alledgedly"😉 to exceed
the 30mph limit for a distance without setting it off again. Basically
it's radar is mis-aligned with the road!

I suppose I should really report it to someone ...
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...

Matt B said:

Some refuse to
acknowledge the fact that road safety can be improved by consent, rather
than by criminalising large proportions of the motoring population.

It isn't cameras that criminalise vast tracts of the motoring
population. They manage it themselves.

Given half a chance, I'd set up a covert speed trap and haul everyone
over the limit off the road for a talking to. They'd get really [censored] at tryign to save a few seconds and wasting a few minutes or more
instead.
Most motorists cannot judge a speed appropriate for the conditions
beyond what they will not crash at.

...d

On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 15:39:15 +0000 someone who may be Paul Boyd
<usenet.dont.work@plusnet> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Anyway, today they've installed one of those displays which tells
speeders how fast they are going and to slow down. Of the admittedly
small number of motorists I saw on my journey going past this sign, it
didn't seems to make any difference to their driving. Is there any
evidence that they actually do any good or are they just a waste of
money?

I'd go with the latter. We have some here that flash up a supercilious
"50" (in a 50 limit) at anything much over 45. They are universally
ignored. I'm sure some civil servant somewhere will spout statistics
about their effectiveness, but statistics on paper never match real life.

If officials were interested they would simply install traffic
lights which are normally green, but which change to red for a while
if people are driving too fast. They have been installed in other
places, IIRC France is one example, especially where there is one
main road going through a town or village. Motorists soon get the
idea.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

David Hansen <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

If officials were interested they would simply install traffic
lights which are normally green, but which change to red for a while
if people are driving too fast. They have been installed in other
places, IIRC France is one example, especially where there is one
main road going through a town or village. Motorists soon get the
idea.

Absolutely. IIRC, they have them in Portugal - and they've made a massive
difference. One benefit with these lights is that everyone around knows
it's you who's responsible for the delay and suddenly speeding is much less
acceptable.

Of course, it won't happen over here - the greedy scammers are too hooked
on the gravy train to worry about proper safety.

lardyninja said:

There's a section of road near here with several traffic islands. Not
only is it notorious for speeding but it seems that many motorists here
seem to think that the 2 seconds saved on their journey to the back of
the next queue is worth risking the lives of cyclists by squeezing them
at these islands. In fact one of them scared the life out of me last
week as he miscalculated and ended up skidding to a halt right next to
me and almost hitting the bollard.

Anyway, today they've installed one of those displays which tells
speeders how fast they are going and to slow down. Of the admittedly
small number of motorists I saw on my journey going past this sign, it
didn't seems to make any difference to their driving. Is there any
evidence that they actually do any good or are they just a waste of
money?

LN

I'm sure they are there to scare the bejesus out of me. There I am
cycling quietly along towards one of them & suddenly it lights up at 15
mph over the limit to let me know that some supercharged twit is about
to belt past. Happens all the flipping time.

Stan Cox

David Martin said:

Matt B said:

Some refuse to
acknowledge the fact that road safety can be improved by consent, rather
than by criminalising large proportions of the motoring population.

It isn't cameras that criminalise vast tracts of the motoring
population. They manage it themselves.

They do not obtain a criminal record from VASs.

Quoted message said:

Given half a chance, I'd set up a covert speed trap and haul everyone
over the limit off the road for a talking to. They'd get really [censored]
off at tryign to save a few seconds and wasting a few minutes or more
instead.

Given the same chance I'd forget the spurious speed limit criteria and
haul over all of those who were driving carelessly, whatever speed they
were travelling. Why waste time on the safe drivers when it is the
dangerous ones who cause all the problems???

Quoted message said:

Most motorists cannot judge a speed appropriate for the conditions
beyond what they will not crash at.

The evidence of the number of motoring trips undertaken and the number
of collisions occurring suggests otherwise.

--
Matt B

David Hansen said:

On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 15:39:15 +0000 someone who may be Paul Boyd
<usenet.dont.work@plusnet> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Anyway, today they've installed one of those displays which tells
speeders how fast they are going and to slow down. Of the admittedly
small number of motorists I saw on my journey going past this sign, it
didn't seems to make any difference to their driving. Is there any
evidence that they actually do any good or are they just a waste of
money?

I'd go with the latter. We have some here that flash up a supercilious
"50" (in a 50 limit) at anything much over 45. They are universally
ignored. I'm sure some civil servant somewhere will spout statistics
about their effectiveness, but statistics on paper never match real life.

If officials were interested

The stumbling block, don't you think.

Quoted message said:

they would simply install traffic
lights which are normally green, but which change to red for a while
if people are driving too fast. They have been installed in other
places, IIRC France is one example, especially where there is one
main road going through a town or village. Motorists soon get the
idea.

Yes, I've heard/read of them in Portugal. They work on the same
principal as VASs, they draw attention, and public humiliation, to the
violator. They may well be even more effective as they actually
inconvenience people too :-)

--
Matt B

Matt B said:

Suggestions have been made that the signs are being misused in some
places to diminish their reputation, and to maintain speed cameras as
the number one road safety tool, because of their superior revenue
raising powers.

Of course the best solution for suitable roads is average speed
cameras. As used on the A77 for 29 miles south of Glasgow. Compared to
pre cameras the road is now much more pleasant to drive. No more boy
racers blasting past at 90 mph. And its not a money raiser either. Only
49 drivers caught between August and November. Before the Average speed
cams that many were caught every week by police patrols. As we all know
cameras are only raise revenue from drivers who choose to break the
law.
An interesting effect is that as (in good conditions) almost
everyone drives at the speed limit there is actually no need to check
your speedo very often, you just drive at the speed of other traffic.
This does away with an argument used by some apologists for speeding
drivers that cameras are unsafe since drivers can't watch the road
whilst reading their speedometer.
http://news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=254152006

Iain

Chris Johns came up with the following;:

Quoted message said:

p.k. said:

There is no evidence that in time, drivers become less
responsive to the signs, even over three years.

Did the study find "boy racer" types who would view the sign as a
challenge, ie. "whats the biggest number we can get on it?"

... but they don't. If a sign is on, say, a 40 limit, when the speed
registered is over 40 the sign merely flashes.

--
Paul ...
(8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Did the study find "boy racer" types who would view the sign as a
challenge, ie. "whats the biggest number we can get on it?"

.. but they don't. If a sign is on, say, a 40 limit, when the speed
registered is over 40 the sign merely flashes.

I think some do. IIRC[1] there was a thread age ago about whether they'd
register speeding urc-ers on their bicycles.

Mark Thompson said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Did the study find "boy racer" types who would view the sign as a
challenge, ie. "whats the biggest number we can get on it?"

.. but they don't. If a sign is on, say, a 40 limit, when the speed
registered is over 40 the sign merely flashes.

I think some do. IIRC[1] there was a thread age ago about whether they'd
register speeding urc-ers on their bicycles.

About three weeks ago I managed to get one to register 15mph as I
approached it, I was the only vehicle there at the time so it must have
been triggered by me. Sadly some git must have noticed this little
oversight and they have since adjusted the sensor such that I no longer
register at all. Is there a hidden message here?

Terry Duckmanton