Speed displays

Matt B said:

David Martin said:

Matt B said:

Some refuse to
acknowledge the fact that road safety can be improved by consent, rather
than by criminalising large proportions of the motoring population.

It isn't cameras that criminalise vast tracts of the motoring
population. They manage it themselves.

They do not obtain a criminal record from VASs.

They are criminals if they break the law. If they get a FPN then they
are a convicted criminal.

Is that too hard to undersatand (or am I only a criminal if I get
caught?)

...d

David Martin said:

Matt B said:

David Martin said:

Matt B wrote:
> Some refuse to
> acknowledge the fact that road safety can be improved by consent, rather
> than by criminalising large proportions of the motoring population.
It isn't cameras that criminalise vast tracts of the motoring
population. They manage it themselves.

They do not obtain a criminal record from VASs.

They are criminals if they break the law. If they get a FPN then they
are a convicted criminal.

Is that too hard to undersatand (or am I only a criminal if I get
caught?)

No, like I said, they do not obtain a criminal record from VASs. Is the
object of the exercise to give people criminal records or to cut the
number of road casualties?

--
Matt B

David Martin said:

They are criminals if they break the law. If they get a FPN then they
are a convicted criminal.

Is that too hard to undersatand (or am I only a criminal if I get
caught?)

No, there are motons that think that breaking the law doesn't make
you a criminal - it's only if you get caught, apparently.

We had one in our local press a while ago. He was outraged that a
policeman had stopped him after he drove past a red cross on the
motorway. Apparently he only did it for the good of mankind and it
was perfectly safe, but some arrogant policeman thought there might be
a good reason for closing the lane and made the poor persecuted
motorist into a criminal by stopping him and not backing down when
told he should be out catching criminals.

It's actually, literally incredible the mental gymnastics some car
drivers will go to to justify their law-breaking.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

David Martin wrote on 06/11/2006 19:34 +0100:

Quoted message said:

They are criminals if they break the law. If they get a FPN then they
are a convicted criminal.

Akshually they are not. The FPN does not make you a convicted criminal.
According to the Home Office "Receiving a penalty notice does not
count as getting a conviction." and "If you do pay the fine, you won’t
be prosecuted and no record of your offence will be kept."

The definition of a conviction is: The proving or finding a person
guilty of an offence with which he is charged before a legal tribunal.
OED

--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci

"[email hidden]" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Of course the best solution for suitable roads is average speed
cameras. As used on the A77 for 29 miles south of Glasgow. Compared to
pre cameras the road is now much more pleasant to drive.

You mean these cameras?

http://www.ayrshore.com/crash/crash.htm

"Will Cove" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"[email hidden]" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Of course the best solution for suitable roads is average speed
cameras. As used on the A77 for 29 miles south of Glasgow. Compared to
pre cameras the road is now much more pleasant to drive.

You mean these cameras?

http://www.ayrshore.com/crash/crash.htm

Blimey, that's a really impressive bit of complete bollocks. Would you care
to post a comment on the crash by somebody who actually knows what they are
talking about?

BTW You never answered my last question...

clive

Ian Smith said:

It's actually, literally incredible the mental gymnastics some car
drivers will go to to justify their law-breaking.

Just as incredible as the similar gymnastice gone through (by some) to
justify cycling RLJ's, pavement cyclists etc!

pk

in message <[email hidden]>, David

Martin (') said:

Given half a chance, I'd set up a covert speed trap and haul everyone
over the limit off the road for a talking to. They'd get really [censored]
off at tryign to save a few seconds and wasting a few minutes or more
instead.

H'mmm... there's an idea. Stop each car caught speeding and divert them off
the road into a field. Give the driver the option of

(a) remaining in the field for one hour for each 5mph over the limit, or
(b) appearing in court the following morning.

If speeding regularly made you late getting to your destination, people
wouldn't do it.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; Our modern industrial economy takes a mountain covered with trees,
;; lakes, running streams and transforms it into a mountain of junk,
;; garbage, slime pits, and debris. -- Edward Abbey

in message <[email hidden]>, Ian Smith

(') said:

It's actually, literally incredible the mental gymnastics some car
drivers will go to to justify their law-breaking.

We see it on this very froup all too often. This past week, particularly.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

The Conservative Party now has the support of a smaller proportion of
the electorate in Scotland than Sinn Fein have in Northern Ireland.

Will Cove said:

"[email hidden]" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Of course the best solution for suitable roads is average speed
cameras. As used on the A77 for 29 miles south of Glasgow. Compared to
pre cameras the road is now much more pleasant to drive.

You mean these cameras?

http://www.ayrshore.com/crash/crash.htm

Yes those cameras Suggesting that fatal crash happened because of the
cameras were there is ludicrous. So drivers never drive badly on camera
free roads then?. The A77 has a long history of fatal ccidents at
junctions long before cameras were installed.
Rather than draw dodgy conclusions from one crash lets see what the
accident rates look like over a 2 year period on the road.
Iain

Clive George wrote on 06/11/2006 20:32 +0100:

Quoted message said:

"Will Cove" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"[email hidden]" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Of course the best solution for suitable roads is average speed
cameras. As used on the A77 for 29 miles south of Glasgow. Compared to
pre cameras the road is now much more pleasant to drive.

You mean these cameras?

http://www.ayrshore.com/crash/crash.htm

Blimey, that's a really impressive bit of complete bollocks. Would you
care to post a comment on the crash by somebody who actually knows what
they are talking about?

Thanks for dragging that one out of my killfile - really! I had to
check the date three times to make sure it wasn't April 1. Amazing that
some people apparently believe it.

--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, David

Martin (') said:

Given half a chance, I'd set up a covert speed trap and haul everyone
over the limit off the road for a talking to. They'd get really [censored]
off at tryign to save a few seconds and wasting a few minutes or more
instead.

H'mmm... there's an idea. Stop each car caught speeding and divert them off
the road into a field. Give the driver the option of

(a) remaining in the field for one hour for each 5mph over the limit, or
(b) appearing in court the following morning.

If speeding regularly made you late getting to your destination, people
wouldn't do it.

How big is your field?
--
Cheers
the.Mark

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, David

Martin (') said:

Given half a chance, I'd set up a covert speed trap and haul everyone
over the limit off the road for a talking to. They'd get really [censored]
off at tryign to save a few seconds and wasting a few minutes or more
instead.

H'mmm... there's an idea. Stop each car caught speeding and divert them off
the road into a field. Give the driver the option of

(a) remaining in the field for one hour for each 5mph over the limit, or
(b) appearing in court the following morning.

If speeding regularly made you late getting to your destination, people
wouldn't do it.

How big is your field?
--
Cheers
the.Mark

Mark Thompson said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Did the study find "boy racer" types who would view the sign as a
challenge, ie. "whats the biggest number we can get on it?"

.. but they don't. If a sign is on, say, a 40 limit, when the speed
registered is over 40 the sign merely flashes.

I think some do. IIRC[1] there was a thread age ago about whether they'd
register speeding urc-ers on their bicycles.

We have had one installed at the bottom of a hill as I come home, I
usually clock around 20 on it.

--
Don Whybrow

Sequi Bonum Non Time

"My God! The thought of that evil man, loose in London--with money, from
God only knows what source--fomenting riot and rebellion during a public
emergency--and in control of an Engine-driven press! It's nightmarish!"
(Gibson-Sterling, "The Difference Engine"😉

Don Whybrow said:

Mark Thompson said:

Quoted message said:

>Did the study find "boy racer" types who would view the sign as a
>challenge, ie. "whats the biggest number we can get on it?"

.. but they don't. If a sign is on, say, a 40 limit, when the speed
registered is over 40 the sign merely flashes.

I think some do. IIRC[1] there was a thread age ago about whether they'd
register speeding urc-ers on their bicycles.

Only if they were situated in royal parks..

...d

On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 20:36:01 +0000, Simon Brooke <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, David

Martin (') said:

Given half a chance, I'd set up a covert speed trap and haul everyone
over the limit off the road for a talking to. They'd get really [censored]
off at tryign to save a few seconds and wasting a few minutes or more
instead.

H'mmm... there's an idea. Stop each car caught speeding and divert them off
the road into a field. Give the driver the option of

(a) remaining in the field for one hour for each 5mph over the limit, or
(b) appearing in court the following morning.

If speeding regularly made you late getting to your destination, people
wouldn't do it.

Dayum Simon, you're not as dumb as you look. ;-D

Probably impractical, though.

Will Cove said:

"[email hidden]" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Of course the best solution for suitable roads is average speed
cameras. As used on the A77 for 29 miles south of Glasgow. Compared to
pre cameras the road is now much more pleasant to drive.

You mean these cameras?

http://www.ayrshore.com/crash/crash.htm

Ah, unbiased opinion from a website for petrolheads.

--
Don Whybrow

Sequi Bonum Non Time

After things go from bad to worse, the cycle will repeat itself.

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 20:36:01 +0000, Simon Brooke <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, David

Martin (') said:

Given half a chance, I'd set up a covert speed trap and haul everyone
over the limit off the road for a talking to. They'd get really [censored]
off at tryign to save a few seconds and wasting a few minutes or more
instead.

H'mmm... there's an idea. Stop each car caught speeding and divert them off
the road into a field. Give the driver the option of

(a) remaining in the field for one hour for each 5mph over the limit, or
(b) appearing in court the following morning.

If speeding regularly made you late getting to your destination, people
wouldn't do it.

Dayum Simon, you're not as dumb as you look. ;-D

Probably impractical, though.

A version of this exists in Germany: put a pedestrian crossing with a
traffic light in the village centre, at the school or whatever, and have
the light turn red if an approaching car drives over the speedlimit.
Works pretty well.

--
---
Marten

p.k. said:

VAS = Cost

But no onerous requirements before you can put one up

Quoted message said:

Camera = Revenue

But ridiculous conditions have to be met

Quoted message said:

Which one do budgets & financial targets tend to encourage?

I hope VASs work, because they can be put where you'd never get
permission for a speed camera.

Colin McKenzie

--
No-one has ever proved that cycle helmets make cycling any safer at
the population level, and anyway cycling is about as safe per mile as
walking.
Make an informed choice - visit www.cyclehelmets.org.

David Hansen said:

If officials were interested they would simply install traffic
lights which are normally green, but which change to red for a while
if people are driving too fast. They have been installed in other
places, IIRC France is one example, especially where there is one
main road going through a town or village. Motorists soon get the
idea.

Wouldn't ours just jump them, or is there a camera to enforce the red
light?

Colin Mckenzie

--
No-one has ever proved that cycle helmets make cycling any safer at
the population level, and anyway cycling is about as safe per mile as
walking.
Make an informed choice - visit www.cyclehelmets.org.