Soldering Cable ends

Tom Nakashima said:

"_" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

jim beam said:

_ wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 19:49:57 -0700, jim beam wrote:
>
>> Jeff wrote:
>>> <[email hidden]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email hidden]...
>>>
>>>> Stainless wires are easily silver soldered but most of us don't have
>>>> the flux or oxy-acetylene torch to do it.
>>>>
>>>> Jobst Brandt
>>> Thanks. I have the acetylene torch and some silver solder and flux,
>>> but
>>> I like the shrink wrap solution better. I've already done one to test
>>> and am about to go out into my garage to finish. ...not sure that I
>>> would want to get my acetylene torch near my bike.
>>>
>>> J
>>>
>>>
>> don't do that - excess heat removes the temper from the cable. use
>> ordinary soft solder, an electric soldering iron, and the magic
>> ingredient, liquid acid flux, available in the plumbing department of
>> your local hardware store. neutralize with baking soda solution
>> afterwards.
> Useless advice.
>
> The strength of the end of the cable is of no concern.
if the "end of the cable" means the heat affected part of the cable is
guaranteed to be outside of the is clamp, that would be fine.

What part of the cable would you be soldering? Most of us just do the end
- as would the op.

Really, it's only the tip of the cables, 1/16" is all you need to solder to
keep the ends from fraying. Tin the iron with silver solder, then quickly
touch the cable with the iron and the solder...."DONE!"
No flux, baking soda, or cleaner is necessary.
-tom

simply not possible with stainless - the passive oxide layer prevents
solder wetting. aggressive flux is necessary to disrupt the oxide.

_ said:

jim beam said:

_ said:

On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 19:49:57 -0700, jim beam wrote:

> Jeff wrote:
>> <[email hidden]> wrote in message
>> news:[email hidden]...
>>
>>> Stainless wires are easily silver soldered but most of us don't have
>>> the flux or oxy-acetylene torch to do it.
>>>
>>> Jobst Brandt
>> Thanks. I have the acetylene torch and some silver solder and flux, but
>> I like the shrink wrap solution better. I've already done one to test
>> and am about to go out into my garage to finish. ...not sure that I
>> would want to get my acetylene torch near my bike.
>>
>> J
>>
>>
> don't do that - excess heat removes the temper from the cable. use
> ordinary soft solder, an electric soldering iron, and the magic
> ingredient, liquid acid flux, available in the plumbing department of
> your local hardware store. neutralize with baking soda solution afterwards.
Useless advice.

The strength of the end of the cable is of no concern.

if the "end of the cable" means the heat affected part of the cable is
guaranteed to be outside of the is clamp, that would be fine.

What part of the cable would you be soldering? Most of us just do the end
- as would the op.

i've seen people do the region above the clamp. if done with excess
heat [gas torch], that /will/ weaken the cable.

aka Jobst Brandt said:

...
Today, with liability claims as they are (with technically impractical
juries)...

All juries should be composed of engineers and scientists.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
When did ignorance of biology become a "family value"?

Tom Sherman said:

aka Jobst Brandt said:

...
Today, with liability claims as they are (with technically impractical
juries)...

All juries should be composed of engineers and scientists.

as long as the engineers are not the kind that think they can eliminate
metal fatigue in a material that doesn't strain age.

jim beam said:

Tom Nakashima wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Really, it's only the tip of the cables, 1/16" is all you need to solder to
keep the ends from fraying. Tin the iron with silver solder, then quickly
touch the cable with the iron and the solder...."DONE!"
No flux, baking soda, or cleaner is necessary.
-tom

simply not possible with stainless - the passive oxide layer prevents
solder wetting. aggressive flux is necessary to disrupt the oxide.

Can't stainless be MIG welded? i.e. with no flux-- well MIG usually
involves no flux anyway.

Ben C said:

jim beam said:

Tom Nakashima wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Really, it's only the tip of the cables, 1/16" is all you need to solder to
keep the ends from fraying. Tin the iron with silver solder, then quickly
touch the cable with the iron and the solder...."DONE!"
No flux, baking soda, or cleaner is necessary.
-tom

simply not possible with stainless - the passive oxide layer prevents
solder wetting. aggressive flux is necessary to disrupt the oxide.

Can't stainless be MIG welded? i.e. with no flux-- well MIG usually
involves no flux anyway.

yes, of course. but that's not soft solder and a whole different heat
range! cable ends from factory are plasma cut - that melts and "seals"
the ends most effectively and the heat affected zone is only a couple of
mm. if you want to use thousands of dollars of gear to crack this nut,
use the plasma cutter, not a tig welder.

Tom Sherman said:

Quoted message said:

...
Today, with liability claims as they are (with technically impractical
juries)...

Quoted message said:

All juries should be composed of engineers and scientists.

You missed the part where none of these jury members asked any
questions. That is the problem. They are all so macho that they
think it a sign of stupidity to as, and therefore must make their
decisions on emotions rather than understanding of the case.

Jobst Brandt

Quoted message said:

Tom Sherman said:

Quoted message said:

...
Today, with liability claims as they are (with technically impractical
juries)...

Quoted message said:

All juries should be composed of engineers and scientists.

You missed the part where none of these jury members asked any
questions. That is the problem. They are all so macho that they
think it a sign of stupidity to as, and therefore must make their
decisions on emotions rather than understanding of the case.

I missed that post. To what sort of jury are you referring? Trial
juries? I don't recall being allowed to ask any questions. Nor do I
recall a specific admonition forbidding it, but am certain that it was
discouraged. I've been on several civil and criminal juries.

--
Joe Riel

Dans le message de news:[email hidden],
Joe Riel <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Tom Sherman said:

> ...
> Today, with liability claims as they are (with technically
> impractical juries)...

Quoted message said:

All juries should be composed of engineers and scientists.

You missed the part where none of these jury members asked any
questions. That is the problem. They are all so macho that they
think it a sign of stupidity to as, and therefore must make their
decisions on emotions rather than understanding of the case.

I missed that post. To what sort of jury are you referring? Trial
juries? I don't recall being allowed to ask any questions. Nor do I
recall a specific admonition forbidding it, but am certain that it was
discouraged. I've been on several civil and criminal juries.

When he gets going on real life experiences, twisted as his social
astigmatism may be, he might even convince himself they are not true. The
Brandtian premise : I am right and there is no universe but me.

BTW, you might ask him about how often he is NOT asked to offer testimony in
court after having been deposed or interviewed. You see, in a court, with
or without a jury, credibility and expertise are examined by neutral
parties.
--
Sandy

The above is guaranteed 100% free of sarcasm,
denigration, snotty remarks, indifference, platitudes, fuming demands that
"you do the math", conceited visions of a better world on wheels [or
otherwise]
according to [insert NAME here].

-
"Our knowledge is a little island in a great ocean of non-knowledge."
- Edward O. Wilson

Joe Riel said:

Quoted message said:

Tom Sherman said:

> ...
> Today, with liability claims as they are (with technically impractical
> juries)...

Quoted message said:

All juries should be composed of engineers and scientists.

You missed the part where none of these jury members asked any
questions. That is the problem. They are all so macho that they
think it a sign of stupidity to as, and therefore must make their
decisions on emotions rather than understanding of the case.

I missed that post. To what sort of jury are you referring? Trial
juries? I don't recall being allowed to ask any questions. Nor do I
recall a specific admonition forbidding it, but am certain that it was
discouraged. I've been on several civil and criminal juries.

It varies from state to state. I believe it's becoming more common. Here's
a law review article on the practice:

http://lawreview.kentlaw.edu/articles/78-3/mott.pdf (pdf file)

Sandy said:

Dans le message de news:[email hidden],
Joe Riel <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Tom Sherman writes:

>> ...
>> Today, with liability claims as they are (with technically
>> impractical juries)...

> All juries should be composed of engineers and scientists.

You missed the part where none of these jury members asked any
questions. That is the problem. They are all so macho that they
think it a sign of stupidity to as, and therefore must make their
decisions on emotions rather than understanding of the case.

I missed that post. To what sort of jury are you referring? Trial
juries? I don't recall being allowed to ask any questions. Nor do I
recall a specific admonition forbidding it, but am certain that it was
discouraged. I've been on several civil and criminal juries.

When he gets going on real life experiences, twisted as his social
astigmatism may be, he might even convince himself they are not true. The
Brandtian premise : I am right and there is no universe but me.

Jurors are allowed to ask questions of witnesses in some jurisdictions:

http://lawreview.kentlaw.edu/articles/78-3/mott.pdf

Quoted message said:

BTW, you might ask him about how often he is NOT asked to offer testimony in
court after having been deposed or interviewed. You see, in a court, with
or without a jury, credibility and expertise are examined by neutral
parties.

Do you have some evidence that he's frequently rejected as a witness
because of lack of credibility (and not, say, because his testimony
wouldn't suit the interests of the party)?

Joe Riel said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> ... Today, with liability claims as they are (with technically
> impractical juries)...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

All juries should be composed of engineers and scientists.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You missed the part where none of these jury members asked any
questions. That is the problem. They are all so macho that they
think it a sign of stupidity to ask, and therefore must make their
decisions on emotions rather than understanding of the case.

Quoted message said:

I missed that post. To what sort of jury are you referring? Trial
juries? I don't recall being allowed to ask any questions. Nor do I
recall a specific admonition forbidding it, but am certain that it was
discouraged. I've been on several civil and criminal juries.

We're talking about liability suits in which unwarranted damages are
awarded and precedent set.

When plaintiff's attorney is examining his expert witness and the
witness blathers jargon that no one can decipher, it is the defense's
job to object to the line questioning or ask for a clearer explanation
of what is being presented... or at least do a clearer job when
questioning that witness himself.

In one case in which I testified, the plaintiff's attorney summarized
my testimony to prove exactly the opposite of what I said. The
defense said nothing and I objected, telling the attorney to ask me if
he wants my testimony, not to create it from whole cloth. The judge
allowed my objection and instructed the attorney to not rephrase my
testimony.

In this case I and the bicycle industry prevailed. That is my purpose
in testifying in cases that are obviously "fishing trips" for money
from an industry that does not need this sort of expense.

As for the crack in the road. It seems the organizers should have
reconnoitered the route and either fill the crack, set up barriers or
use a different road. We have "century rides" in this area that go
over 4209ft Mt. Hamilton. The road has center stripe reflectors that
are sunk in square edged slots about five inches wide and an inch
deep, four to six feet long tapering in depth from both ends. This is
done to protect them from snow plows that tend the road in winter.

http://mthamilton.ucolick.org/public/pictures/snowpics/

These are hazardous to cross at small angles when descending and
riders at various times, (not in the event that I know of) fell and
broke bones when inadvertently crossing one of these gaps. I also
know of no one who has held the highway department liable. It is a
state California highway HWY130.

Jobst Brandt