schmaltz

Boron Elgar said:

Margaret Suran said:

Jess Askin said:

I'm told there are, or were, multi-ethnic poultry stores in New York where
they ask you how you want your chicken killed -- the Jewish way, the Muslim
way, or the goyish way. I don't know what the goyish way is -- maybe they
put it out in the street and let a car run over it.

--
Jess Askin
Iowa, USA

No, that is not possible. Unless only non-kosher, non-Orthodox Jews
bought their chickens in such a store.

If your grandmother would read your post, she would not schepf naches

Quoted message said:

from you. :o)

I have a vague memory of my grandmother swinging a chicken around my
head 3 times.

I used to go with my mother to the poultry store, where she would pick
out a live chicken from the cages in the front part of the shop. Then,
the bird would be taken in back and a little while later my mother
would be given a wrapped parcel. We'd have chicken soup that night. I
loved the unlaid eggs.

I also remember watching my mom singe the feathers from chicken feet
on the gas burner of the stove.

Boron

I believe that swinging the chicken is something one does only before
a specific holiday, Yom Kippur. It is a sort of sacrifice. The
chicken has to take on your sins. I is called a Kapures Chicken, or
something like that.

It is not that long ago, that all butcher shops sold unlaid eggs and
before that, butchers would actually give them away, because few
people wanted them or the giblets. When we first came here and had
little money, our butcher would always have a nice package of those
eggs and some giblets on Friday. This was not a Jewish butcher,
shopping in such a store was too expensive. I also liked unlaid eggs,
but not as much as my father, so I pretended not to like them, so that
he could have my share. Had he known that I like them, he would have
made sure that his eggs would go to me. :o)

Quoted message said:

Swinging a chicken around one's head three times is an act of
attonement performed before yom kippur called, in Yiddish, "schlugging
kappores." "Kappores" comes from the Hebrew word for attonement
(kippurim or kapporos [the first is a masculine form, the second a
feminine], like in Yom Kippur or Yom Ha'kippurim). I think, but may
well be wrong, that to schlug means to swing. When it became hard to
find live chickens in cities, chickens were replaced with money held in
a handkerchief. I've forgotten what happened to the chicken/money after
it was schlugged.

-bwg

Shlug means hit, beat, like the German "Schlagen". You can probably
figure out what happened to the chicken. The money was put back into
your pocket, I would assume.

When you whirled the chicken around the head, it took on all your sins
of the passed year. Are you sure about the word Kapures meaning
atonement? I thought it meant doomed, as being killed in the act of
being swung around or later and I thought it was a sacrifice.

"Jess Askin" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

"Dog3" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Jess Askin" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

"Dog3" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> "Jess Askin" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:
>
> > OK, I saved all my lumps of chicken fat for a year, and now I
> > have two mayonnaise jars full of schmaltz. What do I do next?
>
> It's been rendered, right? I use it in a lot of things but it's
> excellent for sauteing potatoes, mishagos and is a must in chopped
> liver. Sometimes
I
> use it on chicken thighs and drumsticks. I'll coat the chicken,
> toss on S&P and bake at 350 until done. Good stuff.

Mishagos is a food? I know my cooking has sometimes been described
as meshuganah, but I never knew what that meant.

I don't know if it's Jewish or not. It's one of the dishes that is
served at Pumpernickles Deli. I have it for breakfast sometimes.
It's corned beef hash with hash browned style potatoes. It's a bit
salty but tasty in the morning.

Sounds good, but I sense it's not a traditional Jewish dish.

It is not a kosher deli although most of the items are kosher. I don't
know if it's traditional or not. I've been to a lot of Jewish homes for
holidays etc. and never heard the dish referenced.

Michael

Dog3 said:

It is not a kosher deli although most of the items are kosher.

If it's not a kosher deli than nothing served there is kosher, NOTHING!

Sheldon

Margaret Suran said:

Boron Elgar said:

Margaret Suran said:

Jess Askin wrote:

>I'm told there are, or were, multi-ethnic poultry stores in New York where
>they ask you how you want your chicken killed -- the Jewish way, the Muslim
>way, or the goyish way. I don't know what the goyish way is -- maybe they
>put it out in the street and let a car run over it.
>
>--
>Jess Askin
>Iowa, USA
>
>

No, that is not possible. Unless only non-kosher, non-Orthodox Jews
bought their chickens in such a store.

If your grandmother would read your post, she would not schepf naches

Quoted message said:

from you. :o)

I have a vague memory of my grandmother swinging a chicken around my
head 3 times.

I used to go with my mother to the poultry store, where she would pick
out a live chicken from the cages in the front part of the shop. Then,
the bird would be taken in back and a little while later my mother
would be given a wrapped parcel. We'd have chicken soup that night. I
loved the unlaid eggs.

I also remember watching my mom singe the feathers from chicken feet
on the gas burner of the stove.

Boron

I believe that swinging the chicken is something one does only before
a specific holiday, Yom Kippur. It is a sort of sacrifice. The
chicken has to take on your sins. I is called a Kapures Chicken, or
something like that.

It is not that long ago, that all butcher shops sold unlaid eggs and
before that, butchers would actually give them away, because few
people wanted them or the giblets. When we first came here and had
little money, our butcher would always have a nice package of those
eggs and some giblets on Friday. This was not a Jewish butcher,
shopping in such a store was too expensive. I also liked unlaid eggs,
but not as much as my father, so I pretended not to like them, so that
he could have my share. Had he known that I like them, he would have
made sure that his eggs would go to me. :o)

Even then, the kindness and goodness we all see in you now, was
already evident.

Boron

On Thu 04 Aug 2005 05:04:15p, Boron Elgar wrote in rec.food.cooking:

Quoted message said:

Margaret Suran said:

Boron Elgar said:

On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 14:25:06 -0400, Margaret Suran
<[email hidden]> wrote:

>
>Jess Askin wrote:
>
>
>>I'm told there are, or were, multi-ethnic poultry stores in New York
>>where they ask you how you want your chicken killed -- the Jewish
>>way, the Muslim way, or the goyish way. I don't know what the goyish
>>way is -- maybe they put it out in the street and let a car run over
>>it.
>>
>>--
>>Jess Askin
>>Iowa, USA
>>
>>
>
>No, that is not possible. Unless only non-kosher, non-Orthodox Jews
>bought their chickens in such a store.
>
>If your grandmother would read your post, she would not schepf naches

>from you. :o)

I have a vague memory of my grandmother swinging a chicken around my
head 3 times.

I used to go with my mother to the poultry store, where she would pick
out a live chicken from the cages in the front part of the shop. Then,
the bird would be taken in back and a little while later my mother
would be given a wrapped parcel. We'd have chicken soup that night. I
loved the unlaid eggs.

I also remember watching my mom singe the feathers from chicken feet
on the gas burner of the stove.

Boron

I believe that swinging the chicken is something one does only before
a specific holiday, Yom Kippur. It is a sort of sacrifice. The
chicken has to take on your sins. I is called a Kapures Chicken, or
something like that.

It is not that long ago, that all butcher shops sold unlaid eggs and
before that, butchers would actually give them away, because few
people wanted them or the giblets. When we first came here and had
little money, our butcher would always have a nice package of those
eggs and some giblets on Friday. This was not a Jewish butcher,
shopping in such a store was too expensive. I also liked unlaid eggs,
but not as much as my father, so I pretended not to like them, so that
he could have my share. Had he known that I like them, he would have
made sure that his eggs would go to me. :o)

Even then, the kindness and goodness we all see in you now, was
already evident.

Boron

I cannot imagine anyone not agreeing with that. Margaret is one of the
most caring loving people I know.

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
____________________________________________

Give me a smart idiot over a stupid genius any day.
Sam Goldwyn, 1882-1974

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Virus Database (VPS): 0531-3, 08/04/2005
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"Margaret Suran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jess Askin said:

I'm told there are, or were, multi-ethnic poultry stores in New York

where

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

they ask you how you want your chicken killed -- the Jewish way, the

Muslim

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

way, or the goyish way. I don't know what the goyish way is -- maybe

they

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

put it out in the street and let a car run over it.

--
Jess Askin
Iowa, USA

No, that is not possible. Unless only non-kosher, non-Orthodox Jews
bought their chickens in such a store.

If your grandmother would read your post, she would not schepf naches
from you. :o)

Oy! Is that the Baptist grandmother or the Episcopalian grandmother?

"Sheldon" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Dog3 said:

It is not a kosher deli although most of the items are kosher.

If it's not a kosher deli than nothing served there is kosher, NOTHING!

Sheldon

Wrong.

Jess Askin said:

"Margaret Suran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If your grandmother would read your post, she would not schepf naches
from you. :o)

Oy! Is that the Baptist grandmother or the Episcopalian grandmother?

Either one. All grandmothers, no matter of which religion and
ethnicity schepf naches from their grandchildren. Being a Grandmother
or Grandfather is just about the best thing that happens to one as one
gets old. The rest sucks. :o(

"Margaret Suran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jess Askin said:

"Margaret Suran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If your grandmother would read your post, she would not schepf naches
from you. :o)

Oy! Is that the Baptist grandmother or the Episcopalian grandmother?

Either one. All grandmothers, no matter of which religion and
ethnicity schepf naches from their grandchildren. Being a Grandmother
or Grandfather is just about the best thing that happens to one as one
gets old. The rest sucks. :o(

Please explain schepf naches

In article <[email hidden]>, Margaret Suran
<[email hidden]> wrote:
(snip)

Quoted message said:

Being a Grandmother or Grandfather is just about the best thing that
happens to one as one gets old.

But being a Fairy Godmother is even better, no?
OB "Food"
* Exported from MasterCook Mac *

Cherry Slushies

Recipe By : Posted to rec.food cooking by Barb Schaller 8-5-05
Serving Size : 5 Preparation Time :0:00
Categories : Beverages

Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method
-------- ------------ --------------------------------
12 Bing cherries -- pitted
4 cups ice
1/2 teaspoon cherry flavored sugar free Kool-Aid
2 1/2 cups cold water
1/2 cup sugar or 7-8 packets of Equal

Put all ingredients in blender on 'mix' or 'ice crush' setting for 30-45
seconds. Pour into glasses. Each serving contains 89 calories and 0
grams fat.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Per serving (excluding unknown items): 0 Calories; 0g Fat (0% calories
from fat); 0g Protein; 0g Carbohydrate; 0mg Cholesterol; 9mg Sodium

NOTES : Saint Paul Pioneer Press, Sunday February 23, 1997; Eleanor
Ostman's column. From the book, "Down Home Cookin' without the Down
Home Fat."

_____
--
-Barb, <http://www.jamlady.eboard.com> 8/3/05 New York-Vermont tab (no pictures
yet, though)

I was making the statement based on memory and kappores' phonetic
similarity to kippur and kippurim. In Hebrew the custom is called
kapporot. (Kapporos would be the ashkenazi pronunciation. In yiddish it
turns in to kappores or kappuris or various other pronunciations
according to various other accents. I believe that kapporot should be
the feminine form of the masculine kippurim (where's Isadora when I
need her?)). It was 30 years ago, and I've forgotten a lot, so I went
back and questioned my memory's validity. I quickly came up with a
couple URLs that corroborate my memory. I don't know how relaible they
are as sources, but I suspect that if I took more time reseearching
this I would find more evidence... Here are a couple URLs:
<http://www.torahtots.com/holidays/yomkipur/yomkstr.htm>
<http://www.funmunch.com/events/yom_kippur/law_and_custom.shtml>

The OU site (Orthodox Union) web site is less specific:
<http://www.ou.org/chagim/yomkippur/chicken.htm>

I like the image the phrase "beat the chicken" conjures up. Kind of
like "choke the chicken." Years ago on a conference call with a woman
who ran a 24-hour shop (medical records at a large medical center) she
complained about the third shift slouching off -- she didn't want them
sitting around all night "flogging the log". Two of us fell off our
chairs. The third didn't get the reference. Adler, who got it, claiming
he couldn't hear her, asked her to repeat herself...

-bwg

I was making the statement based on memory and kappores' phonetic
similarity to kippur and kippurim. In Hebrew the custom is called
kapporot. (Kapporos would be the ashkenazi pronunciation. In yiddish it
turns in to kappores or kappuris or various other pronunciations
according to various other accents. I believe that kapporot should be
the feminine form of the masculine kippurim (where's Isadora when I
need her?)). It was 30 years ago, and I've forgotten a lot, so I went
back and questioned my memory's validity. I quickly came up with a
couple URLs that corroborate my memory. I don't know how relaible they
are as sources, but I suspect that if I took more time reseearching
this I would find more evidence... Here are a couple URLs:
<http://www.torahtots.com/holidays/yomkipur/yomkstr.htm>
<http://www.funmunch.com/events/yom_kippur/law_and_custom.shtml>

The OU site (Orthodox Union) web site is less specific:
<http://www.ou.org/chagim/yomkippur/chicken.htm>

I like the image the phrase "beat the chicken" conjures up. Kind of
like "choke the chicken." Years ago on a conference call with a woman
who ran a 24-hour shop (medical records at a large medical center) she
complained about the third shift slouching off -- she didn't want them
sitting around all night "flogging the log". Two of us fell off our
chairs. The third didn't get the reference. Adler, who got it, claiming
he couldn't hear her, asked her to repeat herself...

-bwg

Margaret, I'm having trouble finding the chapter and verse in
<http://www.ou.org/kosher/prime r.html> that forbids a kosher butcher
from selling to muslims or gentiles, or that forbids an orthodox jew
from shopping in a store that sells both kosher and traife foods. I am
Jewish, I was brought up modern orthodox and I (my family) did shop in
supermarkets that sold both kosher and traife packaged goods. Meats we
bought only from a kosher butcher, but again, I dont know why a kosher
butcher's products would not be kosher because he also catered to
non-Jews. What would happen in a (possibly small) mostly Jewish town
with a small minority of gentiles but no non-kosher butcher? Would the
Jews not shop at a Kosher butcher because he also sold meat to the
Gentiles?

-bwg

Margaret, I'm having trouble finding the chapter and verse in
<http://www.ou.org/kosher/prime r.html> that forbids a kosher butcher
from selling to muslims or gentiles, or that forbids an orthodox jew
from shopping in a store that sells both kosher and traife foods. I am
Jewish, I was brought up modern orthodox and I (my family) did shop in
supermarkets that sold both kosher and traife packaged goods. Meats we
bought only from a kosher butcher, but again, I dont know why a kosher
butcher's products would not be kosher because he also catered to
non-Jews. What would happen in a (possibly small) mostly Jewish town
with a small minority of gentiles but no non-kosher butcher? Would the
Jews not shop at a Kosher butcher because he also sold meat to the
Gentiles?

-bwg

Quoted message said:

Margaret, I'm having trouble finding the chapter and verse in
<http://www.ou.org/kosher/prime r.html> that forbids a kosher butcher
from selling to muslims or gentiles,

Nobody claimed that. Where do you think you saw that on rfc?

or that forbids an orthodox jew

Quoted message said:

from shopping in a store that sells both kosher and traife foods.

Again, nobody claimed that. An Orthodox Jew can buy anything tref,
including meat, in a non kosher food shop, but cannot eat it, as well
as some other foods. That is a big difference. He cannot buy and eat
kosher cheese, for example, if it is cut with the same knife as
non-kosher cheese. He can buy and eat a package of kosher cheese that
has not been opened.

The kosher butcher is the exception. Either it is kosher or it is
not. I saw a friend today, a very Orthodox Jew from Brooklyn and he
confirmed that only a butcher shop that has been carefully examined by
the proper authorities that can issue the proper certification, is
deemed "clean" enough to sell meats that may be consumed by the Orthodox.

Hey, if you are really interested, email me and I will give you my
friend's telephone number. He will explain everything. With my
non-kosher background, I am the wrong person for all this. I do not
know very much (read "nothing"😉 about Jewish dietary laws.

Quoted message said:

I am
Jewish, I was brought up modern orthodox and I (my family) did shop in
supermarkets that sold both kosher and traife packaged goods. Meats we
bought only from a kosher butcher, but again, I dont know why a kosher
butcher's products would not be kosher because he also catered to
non-Jews.

Nobody ever said that. Please, quote it if you know where you saw
that. Every kosher butcher shop has many non-kosher customers,
especially Muslims, who have similar dietary laws. I certainly never
said anything like this.

What would happen in a (possibly small) mostly Jewish town

Quoted message said:

with a small minority of gentiles but no non-kosher butcher? Would the
Jews not shop at a Kosher butcher because he also sold meat to the
Gentiles?

I am waiting for you to tell me where you think I (or someone else)
said something like this.

Quoted message said:

-bwg

Quoted message said:

Margaret, I'm having trouble finding the chapter and verse in
<http://www.ou.org/kosher/prime r.html> that forbids a kosher butcher
from selling to muslims or gentiles,

Nobody claimed that. Where do you think you saw that on rfc?

or that forbids an orthodox jew

Quoted message said:

from shopping in a store that sells both kosher and traife foods.

Again, nobody claimed that. An Orthodox Jew can buy anything tref,
including meat, in a non kosher food shop, but cannot eat it, as well
as some other foods. That is a big difference. He cannot buy and eat
kosher cheese, for example, if it is cut with the same knife as
non-kosher cheese. He can buy and eat a package of kosher cheese that
has not been opened.

The kosher butcher is the exception. Either it is kosher or it is
not. I saw a friend today, a very Orthodox Jew from Brooklyn and he
confirmed that only a butcher shop that has been carefully examined by
the proper authorities that can issue the proper certification, is
deemed "clean" enough to sell meats that may be consumed by the Orthodox.

Hey, if you are really interested, email me and I will give you my
friend's telephone number. He will explain everything. With my
non-kosher background, I am the wrong person for all this. I do not
know very much (read "nothing"😉 about Jewish dietary laws.

Quoted message said:

I am
Jewish, I was brought up modern orthodox and I (my family) did shop in
supermarkets that sold both kosher and traife packaged goods. Meats we
bought only from a kosher butcher, but again, I dont know why a kosher
butcher's products would not be kosher because he also catered to
non-Jews.

Nobody ever said that. Please, quote it if you know where you saw
that. Every kosher butcher shop has many non-kosher customers,
especially Muslims, who have similar dietary laws. I certainly never
said anything like this.

What would happen in a (possibly small) mostly Jewish town

Quoted message said:

with a small minority of gentiles but no non-kosher butcher? Would the
Jews not shop at a Kosher butcher because he also sold meat to the
Gentiles?

I am waiting for you to tell me where you think I (or someone else)
said something like this.

Quoted message said:

-bwg