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Re: Strokes

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
11 June 2005
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27 June 2005
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David
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  1. "Micheal Artindale" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Besides the Im strokes; front crawl, back crawl, breast stroke, and
    butterfly, what other strokes are there?

    Thanks

    Micheal

    Competition Styles
    There are four swimming styles commonly swum in competitions. Three of them
    are regulated by the FINA. These three are:

    Breaststroke
    Backstroke
    Butterfly
    A fourth competition is for unregulated styles and is called freestyle.
    During freestyle, it is possible to swim any style on this list. Due to the
    superior speed, most swimmers choose front crawl for freestyle competitions.
    For medley swimming freestyle is any style except breaststroke, backstroke,
    and butterfly.

    Recreational Styles
    There are a large number of different recreational swimming styles. Some of
    them are swum on the breast, some on the back, and some on the side. Of
    course, all the competition strokes can be swum recreationally.

    On the Breast
    Front Crawl is the fastest swimming style.
    Trudgen (also known as Trudgeon): The trudgen is similar to the front crawl,
    except it is swum with a scissor kick
    Trudgen Crawl: Similar to the trudgen, but with a flutter kick between the
    scissor kicks
    Double Trudgen: Similar to the trudgen, but the sides of the scissor kick
    alternate
    Double Trudgen Crawl: Similar to the double trudgen, but with a flutter kick
    between the scissor kicks
    Dolphin Crawl: Similar to front crawl, but with a dolphin kick. One kick per
    arm or two kicks per cycle. This style is often used in training.
    Catch up stroke: A variation of the front crawl where one arm always rests
    at the front while the other arm performs one cycle.
    Breaststroke
    Heads-Up Breaststroke: Similar to the breaststroke, but the head stays out
    of the water. This style is very popular for recreational and swimmers and
    also for rescue swimmers approaching a victim.
    Butterfly
    Slow Butterfly (also known as Moth stroke): Similar to butterfly, but with
    an extended gliding phase, Breathing during the pull/push phase, return head
    into water during recovery. This style uses four kicks or more per cycle.
    Dog Paddle: face over water and paddling alternatingly with the hands.
    Human Stroke: Similar to the dog paddle, but the arms reach out more and
    pull farther down.
    Survival Travel Stroke: Alternating underwater arm stroke, one cycle for
    propulsion, one for lift to stay on the surface. This style is slow but
    sustainable.
    Snorkeling: Swimming on the breast using a snorkel, usually in combination
    with masks and fins. Any stroke on the breast can be used, and there is no
    need to lift or turn the head for breathing.

    On the Back
    Backstroke (also known as Back Crawl)
    Elementary Backstroke: Both arms move synchronized with a small synchronized
    kick. This is also sometimes known as the Lifesaving Kick
    Inverted Breaststroke: Similar to Elementary Backstroke, but with a
    breaststroke kick.
    Inverted Butterfly: Similar to Elementary backstroke, but with a dolphin
    kick. This is often used for training.
    Back Double Trudgen: Similar to the Backstroke, but with a scissor kick to
    alternating sides.
    Flutter Back Finning: Symmetrically underwater arm recovery with flutter
    kick.
    Feet First Swimming: A very slow stroke on the back where a breaststroke
    movement with the arms propels the body forward feet first. This is often
    used for training.

    On the Side
    Side Stroke: Lying on the side with alternating underwater recovery and a
    scissor kick
    Overarm Sidestroke: Similar to the side stroke, but with a over water
    recovery of the top arm

    Other
    Corkscrew Swimming: Alternating between Front crawl and backstroke every
    arm. This leads to a constant rotation of the swimmer. The stroke is used
    mainly for training purposes
    Underwater Swimming: any style with underwater recovery can be swum under
    water for certain distances depending on the need for air. Underwater
    swimming on the back has the additional possibility of water entering the
    nose. The swimmer can breathe out through the nose or wear a nose clip. Some
    swimmers can close their nostrils with the upper lip.
    Gliding: The swimmer is stretched with the arms to the front, the head
    between the arms and the feet to the back. This streamlined shape minimizes
    resistance and allows the swimmer to glide, for example after a start, a
    push off from a wall, or to rest between strokes.
    Turtle stroke: on the breast, extend right arm then pull, after pushing with
    the left leg (while opposite limbs are recovering), then opposite limbs
    repeat this process, i.e. left arm pulls after right leg pushes. Uses
    muscles of the waist. Head can easily be above or below water: this is a
    slow but very sustainable stroke, popular with turtles and newts.

    Special Purpose Styles
    A number of strokes are only used for special purposes, e.g. to manipulate
    an object (a swimmer in distress, a ball), or just to stay afloat. (see
    also: Drowning)

    Manipulating Objects
    Lifesaving Stroke: Similar to the side stroke, but only the bottom arm moves
    while the top arm tows a swimmer in distress
    Lifesaving Approach Stroke (also known as Heads-Up Crawl): Similar to the
    front crawl, but with the eyes to the front above the water level, such as
    to observe the surroundings as for example a swimmer in distress or a ball
    Water polo stroke: This stroke is used for Water polo and is similar to
    front crawl, but with head above the water and a slightly inward curved arm
    to keep the ball between the arms and in front of the head.
    Pushing Rescue Stroke: This stroke helps assisting a tired swimmer: The
    tired swimmer lies on the back and the rescuer swims a breaststroke kick and
    pushes against the soles of the tired swimmer
    Pulling Rescue Stroke: This stroke helps assisting a swimmer in distress.
    The both swimmers lie on the back, and the rescuer grabs the armpits of the
    swimmer in distress and performs a breaststroke kick (on the back) for
    forward motion. The kick has to be not too shallow as otherwise the victim
    will be hit.
    Pulling Rescue Stroke (Unconscious Victim): Similar to the Pulling Rescue
    Stroke, except the rescuer holds the head by the cheeks and underneath the
    chin, and ensures that the mouth and nose are out of the water
    Pulling Rescue Stroke (Uncooperative Victim): Similar to the Pulling Rescue
    Stroke, except that the victim is uncooperative, e.g. due to panic. To
    reduce the danger to the rescuer, one arm of the victim is twisted on the
    back to restrict movement and to bring the victim in a favorable position
    for transport. The arm may be twisted with one or both hands depending on
    the circumstances, and an eventual available hand may pull the victim by his
    shoulders or his chin.
    Shoulder Pulling Rescue Stroke: Both swimmers are on the breast, and the
    victim hangs from the shoulders of the rescuer. This stroke works only with
    a cooperative victim, and has the advantages that the rescuer can use both
    hands and arms for a forward motion using breaststroke. The breaststroke
    kick should be very deep to avoid kicking the victim in the stomach. The
    victim can also perform a breaststroke or flutter kick. The victim must keep
    his shoulders in the water and must not push the shoulders of the rescuer
    down.
    Clothes Swimming: The swimmer is wearing clothes that restrict movement when
    wet, i.e. almost all clothes. This is done to practice situations were the
    swimmer fell in the water dressed or the rescuer did not have time to
    undress. Due to the restricted movement and the weight of the wet clothes
    over water (weightless under water!) an overarm recovery is not possible.
    Most swimmers swim breaststroke, but any stroke with underwater recovery is
    feasible.
    Rescue Tube Swimming: The lifeguard pulls a flotation device, which is
    pushed forward when approaching the victim.

    Without Forward Motion
    Back Floating (also known as dead man float): Lying on the back with minimal
    leg movement, and staying afloat with the natural buoyancy. Only the face is
    over the water. This style is only to stay afloat and to rest.
    Survival floating: Similar to the back floating, except on the breast. The
    head is raised periodically for breathing. This is very useful for observing
    objects in the water using a mask or goggles. Often in combination with a
    snorkel
    Treading water: The swimmer is in the water heads up and feet down.
    Different kicks and hand movements to stay afloat. This is useful to keep
    the head out of the water for a better view or to catch an object as for
    example in water polo.
    Sculling: This is a figure 8 movement of the hands for forward motion or
    upward lift. Use in surf lifesaving, water polo, synchronized swimming and
    treading water.

  2. "David" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    For medley swimming freestyle is any style except breaststroke,


    backstroke,

    Quoted message said:

    and butterfly.

    This is jurisdiction-dependent; some areas' rules are more restrictive.

  3. In article <[email hidden]>,

    jtaylor said:

    "David" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    For medley swimming freestyle is any style except breaststroke,


    backstroke,

    Quoted message said:

    and butterfly.

    This is jurisdiction-dependent; some areas' rules are more restrictive.

    I'm trying to think of a jurisdiction whose rules are more restrictive
    than those. Could you explain?

    USMS rule 101.5.2 states:

    In an event designated freestyle, the swimmer may swim any style,
    except that in a medley relay or individual medley event,
    freestyle means any style other than butterfly, breaststroke,
    or backstroke. Some part of the swimmer must break the surface of
    the water throughout the race, except it shall be permissible for
    the swimmer to be completely submerged during the turn and for a
    distance of not more than 15 meters (16.4 yards) after the start
    and each turn. By that point the head must have broken the surface.

    The FINA, USA Swimming, etc, rules are essentially the same. All say
    that a swimmer in the "freestyle" leg of a medley may use any stroke (or
    combination of strokes) other than one that would have been legal in the
    other three legs. And that a swimmer in a "freestyle" race may use any
    stroke at all, barring trivial concerns such as walking on the bottom,
    pulling on the lane rope, underwater swimming past the 15m mark, etc.

    Of course, almost everybody will swim some variation of the front crawl.
    But I can't think of any jurisdiction that requires the front crawl.

    Ross

  4. "Ross Bogue" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    I'm trying to think of a jurisdiction whose rules are more restrictive
    than those. Could you explain?

    USMS rule 101.5.2 states:

    Al Gore did not invent the internet, nor do US rules govern swimming in
    other jurisdictions.

    Three examples:

    a) Speedo Junior League has some races where "freestyle" mean any stroke
    other than Breaststroke;

    b) SWORSA rules state "In a Medley Relay and in the Individual Medley events
    the term "freestyle" means Front Crawl.
    Front Crawl is swum on the breast, using alternating arm motions and
    alternating vertical motions of the feet".

    c) BSF rules state: "...in Medley races, Meet Officials interpret
    "freestyle" to mean FRONT CRAWL only".

  5. In article <[email hidden]>,

    jtaylor said:

    Al Gore did not invent the internet, nor do US rules govern swimming in
    other jurisdictions.

    No, but FINA is as close to a world-wide standard as you can get. The
    USMS rule is almost word-for-word identical to FINA rules SW5.1-3.

    SW 5.1 Freestyle means that in an event so designated the swimmer
    may swim any style, except that in individual medley or medley
    relay events, freestyle means any style other than backstroke,
    breaststroke or butterfly.

    SW 5.2 Some part of the swimmer must touch the wall upon completion
    of each length and at the finish.

    SW 5.3 Some part of the swimmer must break the surface of the water
    throughout the race, except it shall be permissible for the swimmer
    to be completely submerged during the turn and for a distance of
    not more than 15 metres after the start and each turn. By that
    point, the head must have broken the surface.

    Quoted message said:


    Three examples:

    a) Speedo Junior League has some races where "freestyle" mean any stroke
    other than Breaststroke;

    Bizarre. Speedo knows better. I wonder why they did that?

    Quoted message said:

    b) SWORSA rules state "In a Medley Relay and in the Individual Medley events
    the term "freestyle" means Front Crawl.
    Front Crawl is swum on the breast, using alternating arm motions and
    alternating vertical motions of the feet".

    c) BSF rules state: "...in Medley races, Meet Officials interpret
    "freestyle" to mean FRONT CRAWL only".

    Are those the Southwest Ontario Recreational Swim Association and the
    Bahamas Swim Federation? Even more bizarre. Again, I presume they
    speak with FINA regularly. I wonder why they did that?

    Ross

  6. jtaylor said:

    Al Gore did not invent the internet, ...

    Nor did he claim to invent the internet:

    BLITZER: "I want to get to some of the
    substance of domestic and international
    issues in a minute, but let's just wrap
    up a little bit of the politics right
    now."

    "Why should Democrats, looking at the
    Democratic nomination process, support
    you instead of Bill Bradley, a friend of
    yours, a former colleague in the Senate?
    What do you have to bring to this that
    he doesn't necessarily bring to this
    process?"

    GORE: "Well, I will be offering -- I'll be
    offering my vision when my campaign begins.
    And it will be comprehensive and sweeping.
    And I hope that it will be compelling
    enough to draw people toward it. I feel
    that it will be."

    "But it will emerge from my dialogue with
    the American people. I've traveled to
    every part of this country during the last
    six years. During my service in the United
    States Congress, I took the initiative in
    creating the Internet. I took the initiative
    in moving forward a whole range of
    initiatives that have proven to be important
    to our country's economic growth and
    environmental protection, improvements in our
    educational system."

    Blitzer didn't challenge Gore's statement
    because he knew that Gore and Gingrich had
    co-authored much of the legislation behind
    the early internet.

    "Bob and I believe that the vice president
    deserves significant credit for his early
    recognition of the importance of what has
    become the Internet."
    - Robert Kahn and Vinton Cerf, seconded by
    Dave Farber, Sep 28 2000

  7. "Ross Bogue" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    FINA is as close to a world-wide standard as you can get.

    FINA rules only govern competitions that are sanctioned by FINA. This a
    tiny fraction of all meets; and to almost all competitiors, FINA rules are
    irrelevant.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    Three examples:

    a) Speedo Junior League has some races where "freestyle" mean any stroke
    other than Breaststroke;

    Bizarre. Speedo knows better. I wonder why they did that?

    It would be interesting to hear

    a) reason(s) for suggesting that one ruleset is "better" than another; and
    b) reason(s) for suggesting that a clothing company should set swimming
    rules

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    b) SWORSA rules state "In a Medley Relay and in the Individual Medley


    events

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the term "freestyle" means Front Crawl.
    Front Crawl is swum on the breast, using alternating arm motions and
    alternating vertical motions of the feet".

    c) BSF rules state: "...in Medley races, Meet Officials interpret
    "freestyle" to mean FRONT CRAWL only".

    Are those the Southwest Ontario Recreational Swim Association and the
    Bahamas Swim Federation? Even more bizarre.

    Why do you think they are "bizzare"? Is it because they are not the same as
    USS or FINA rules? You should look closer to home then - remember the
    Kristine Quance debacle?

  8. In article <[email hidden]>,

    jtaylor said:


    It would be interesting to hear

    a) reason(s) for suggesting that one ruleset is "better" than another; and

    I suppose the main one is just the reason for having rules at all: to
    reduce arguments. If you'll be inviting swimmers from different regions
    to meet together, it helps if they all agree.

    Quoted message said:

    b) reason(s) for suggesting that a clothing company should set swimming
    rules

    Good question. Speedo has been a MAJOR supporter of swimming around the
    world. They certainly have the right to set the rules if they're paying
    for the meet. But usually they don't. Usually they adopt the rules of
    a local sanctioning body instead.

    Was there some conflict between sanctioning bodies that led Speedo to
    form their own league and adopt their own rules? And why'd they see a
    need to adopt rules so different from the national bodies?

    Quoted message said:


    Why do you think they are "bizzare"? Is it because they are not the same as
    USS or FINA rules?

    There are several possibilities. Their rules could be different because
    they were written before FINA existed. Or they may have had some local
    problem that needed to be addressed. Etc.

    It would be bizarre for a local body to intentionally adopt different
    rules just to be different.

    Quoted message said:

    You should look closer to home then - remember the
    Kristine Quance debacle?

  9. jtaylor said:


    "Ross Bogue" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    FINA is as close to a world-wide standard as you can get.

    FINA rules only govern competitions that are sanctioned by FINA. This a
    tiny fraction of all meets; and to almost all competitiors, FINA rules are
    irrelevant.

    That's news to me. Everywhere I've competed subscribed to FINA rules.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Three examples:

    a) Speedo Junior League has some races where "freestyle" mean any stroke
    other than Breaststroke;

    Bizarre. Speedo knows better. I wonder why they did that?

    It would be interesting to hear

    a) reason(s) for suggesting that one ruleset is "better" than another; and
    b) reason(s) for suggesting that a clothing company should set swimming
    rules

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    b) SWORSA rules state "In a Medley Relay and in the Individual Medley


    events

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the term "freestyle" means Front Crawl.
    Front Crawl is swum on the breast, using alternating arm motions and
    alternating vertical motions of the feet".

    c) BSF rules state: "...in Medley races, Meet Officials interpret
    "freestyle" to mean FRONT CRAWL only".

    Are those the Southwest Ontario Recreational Swim Association and the
    Bahamas Swim Federation? Even more bizarre.

    Why do you think they are "bizzare"? Is it because they are not the same as
    USS or FINA rules? You should look closer to home then - remember the
    Kristine Quance debacle?

  10. Otis B. Driftwood said:

    That's news to me. Everywhere I've
    competed subscribed to FINA rules.

    I used to officiate a YMCA league and
    they had their own rulebook. Some of
    the swimmers had to remember different
    rules when they swam in high school.

  11. Man o' Tea said:
    Otis B. Driftwood said:

    That's news to me. Everywhere I've
    competed subscribed to FINA rules.

    I used to officiate a YMCA league and
    they had their own rulebook. Some of
    the swimmers had to remember different
    rules when they swam in high school.

    At the end of the day, there are four IM strokes. They are, Butterfly,
    Backstroke, Breaststroke, and Freestyle. Freestyle is always performed
    as crawlstroke in an IM, whether the rules require it or not.

    Also, lets get all our cards on the table. Front crawlstroke is
    redundant, because there is no back crawlstroke. You can't crawl on
    your back. It's just crawlstroke and backstroke. That's it. All you
    swimmers out there... stop saying front crawl. It's just crawl, or
    crawlstroke. Or best of all, freestyle.When you say freestyle, it
    means crawlstroke.

    And, lest we forget, don't say laps; say lengths. Or, if you say laps,
    use it to mean lengths.

    The two types of turn are the flip turn and the open turn. There is no
    "suicide" turn.

    Let a faster swimmer pass you in one of two ways. If a swimmer passes
    you in the middle of the legth, don't speed up to try to keep him from
    passing. Instead just relax and glide or take a few slow strokes until
    he is gone. If a faster swimmer doesn't pass you in the middle of the
    length, pull up at the wall on the side you swim in on, and let him
    pass. ie, if you are circling to the right in your lane, pull up at
    the end on the right hand side of the lane, and let the faster swimmer
    pass you on the left.

    If a faster swimmer taps your feet, you are not required to stop
    mid-length to let him buy. You can let him by in either of the ways
    described above.

    Don't push off in front of a faster swimmer.

    Don't swim breaststroke in a lane of people swimming freestyle, unless
    you are a very fast breaststroker.

    Don't wear watches and other jewelry in a lap swimming lane.

    Don't wear perfume or cologne into the pool.

    Don't eat garlic if you intend to swim the next day.

    Brush your teeth, floss, and rinse your mouth before you get in the
    pool.

    If you have longish hair, wear a cap.

    Don't stop a swimmer to discuss the rules with him.

  12. "Otis B. Driftwood" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    jtaylor said:


    "Ross Bogue" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    FINA is as close to a world-wide standard as you can get.

    FINA rules only govern competitions that are sanctioned by FINA. This a
    tiny fraction of all meets; and to almost all competitiors, FINA rules


    are

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    irrelevant.

    That's news to me. Everywhere I've competed subscribed to FINA rules.

    You've only swum in international meets?

  13. "Otis B. Driftwood" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Also, lets get all our cards on the table. Front crawlstroke is
    redundant, because there is no back crawlstroke. You can't crawl on
    your back.

    I trust you are tongue-in-cheek above - because otherwise you are completely
    wrong.

  14. jtaylor said:


    "Otis B. Driftwood" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Also, lets get all our cards on the table. Front crawlstroke is
    redundant, because there is no back crawlstroke. You can't crawl on
    your back.

    I trust you are tongue-in-cheek above - because otherwise you are completely
    wrong.

    I'm serious, and I'm sure you can't crawl on your back.

  15. jtaylor said:


    "Otis B. Driftwood" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    jtaylor said:


    "Ross Bogue" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    > FINA is as close to a world-wide standard as you can get.

    FINA rules only govern competitions that are sanctioned by FINA. This a
    tiny fraction of all meets; and to almost all competitiors, FINA rules


    are

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    irrelevant.

    That's news to me. Everywhere I've competed subscribed to FINA rules.

    You've only swum in international meets?

    Don't think I ever have.

  16. "Otis B. Driftwood" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    jtaylor said:


    "Otis B. Driftwood" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Also, lets get all our cards on the table. Front crawlstroke is
    redundant, because there is no back crawlstroke. You can't crawl on
    your back.

    I trust you are tongue-in-cheek above - because otherwise you are


    completely

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    wrong.

    I'm serious, and I'm sure you can't crawl on your back.

    Then

    a) why is there a stroke named "back crawl"; and (to prevent you advancing
    your previous incorrect reasoning)
    b) why is there a stroke (legal to perform in backSTROKE races) called
    "elementary backstroke"

  17. "Otis B. Driftwood" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    ..

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    That's news to me. Everywhere I've competed subscribed to FINA rules.

    You've only swum in international meets?

    Don't think I ever have.

    Then if you check your meet packages again, I think you find that the rules
    that were applied were those of whatever local authority sanctioned the
    competition.

    Some examples:

    a) the upcoming ConocoPhillips (U.S.) National Championships (don't worry,
    an oil company and an electronics firm are not deciding the rules) meet
    package states: "USA Swimming Rules and Regulations will govern the conduct
    of these Championships".

    b) the upcoming Heritage Queensland (Aus.) SC Championships meet package
    states "All Swimming Queensland General Rules and Championship By-Laws
    apply".

    c) the 2005 LMR Championships (B.C., Canada) meet package stated "SNC rules
    will be followed along with Swim B.C. rules denoted in the technical guide
    and LMR rules. The FINA one start rule as well as the SNC warm up procedures
    will be in effect."

    d) the 2005 New Zealand Youth and Open Championships meet package stated
    "This meet will be swum under SNZ Regulations with the specific conditions &
    criteria: (a list of special rules, set by the meet organisers, followed)".

    Now, of course, nothing prevents a meet organising or sanctioning body from
    choosing to use any or all FINA rules, but in practice, they do otherwise.
    If you thought you were always swimming under FINA rules perhaps you should
    read your meet packages more carefully next time - you might find yourself
    upset by your ignorance. As before, remember Kristine Quance?

  18. jtaylor said:


    "Otis B. Driftwood" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    jtaylor said:


    "Otis B. Driftwood" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    >
    > Also, lets get all our cards on the table. Front crawlstroke is
    > redundant, because there is no back crawlstroke. You can't crawl on
    > your back.

    I trust you are tongue-in-cheek above - because otherwise you are


    completely

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    wrong.

    I'm serious, and I'm sure you can't crawl on your back.

    Then

    a) why is there a stroke named "back crawl"; and (to prevent you advancing
    your previous incorrect reasoning)
    b) why is there a stroke (legal to perform in backSTROKE races) called
    "elementary backstroke"

    j, we're talking about the IM strokes. Backstroke is the stroke used
    in IMs. Backstroke is the stroke used in competition. In the FINA
    rules, backstroke is called backstroke.

    I don't know the reason why there is a stroke called elementary
    backstroke. You tell me.

    When we refer to the IM strokes, we are not talking about elementary
    backstroke.

  19. Otis B. Driftwood said:

    When we refer to the IM strokes, we
    are not talking about elementary
    backstroke.

    Do the FINA rules preclude elementary
    backstroke? As I recall, mostly you
    just have to stay on your back and
    turn properly. I've never seen anyone
    do elementary back in masters meets,
    but someone from Equatorial Guinea
    might do it at the Olympics someday.

  20. Man o' Tea said:
    Otis B. Driftwood said:

    When we refer to the IM strokes, we
    are not talking about elementary
    backstroke.

    Do the FINA rules preclude elementary
    backstroke? As I recall, mostly you
    just have to stay on your back and
    turn properly. I've never seen anyone
    do elementary back in masters meets,
    but someone from Equatorial Guinea
    might do it at the Olympics someday.

    I'm pretty sure you can do it. My point was never to say there was no
    such stroke. My point is that when we talk about the IM strokes, we
    are talking about the four strokes we always see in competitions. When
    you mean elementary backstroke, you say elementary backstroke. If you
    just say backstroke when you mean elementary backstroke, your meaning
    will rarely be understood without further explanation. If you say back
    crawl, youth will laugh at you.

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