Pro-Lite Bracciano Wheelset c/w spoke ties

[alienator]

Are Ksrium Sls considered stiff? I can't pick the difference.

I guess that depends on what you mean by stiff: measured lateral stiffness or ride stiffness. Ksyriums have been measured to have a roughly average lateral stiffness, but ride stiffness rating is almost entirely subjective. I tried a set of Ksyriums for a few hours one day (Ksyrium Elites), and my impression was, "meh." It is safe to say that lowering inflation pressure makes any wheel feel more compliant.

 

[danfoz]

Originally Posted by cheetahmk7 .

Are Ksrium Sls considered stiff? I can't pick the difference.

Different spokes and hubs than the SL's but subjectively I would put the current generation Ksyrium Elites in the stiffer category for a low spoke count wheel and certainly compared to another low spoke count wheel, the Zipp 101's which felt somewhat noodly under duress. The 101's descended fine (a function of lateral stiffness?), just didn't feel responsive comparatively when winding up in a sprint (rotational stiffness of the rear wheel). However the Ksyriums weren't as perceptably stiff imo as another pair of low spoke wheels I rode for awhile, the Shimano DA 50 carbon/alloy clinchers. Obviously things like rim height, flange width and height, spoke thickness, tension, lacing pattern, and quantity are all going to be factors in determining a wheels stiffness. Adding some psi to tires can also make them feel more snappy and responsive, but doubt that would help a soft wheel descend with any additional confidence.

 

[Eichers]

Originally Posted by cheetahmk7 .
Surely not all the harshness is coming from the non-drive side of the rear wheel?

Hi cheetahmk7, I did my first ride on this rear wheel this morning, a 60km ride, and it is a harsher than the same wheel, tyre, and tyre pressure without the spoke braces /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif

There is actually less bounce in the wheel but the nice part is when the road is smooth the wheel definitely wants to go ... interesting /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif

I believe the way around this, while still retaining the performance, is to use latex or r-air tubes like one of the following tubes in your rear wheel ...

http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-track-bike/panaracer-panaracer-tubes-inner-road-panaracer-r-air-lightweight-tube/panatube150
http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-track-bike/michelin-aircomp-latex-inner-tube/michtube350
http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-track-bike/michelin-aircomp-latex-tube/michtubm240
Vredestein latex tubes ...
etc

Thanks KL /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif

 

[danfoz]

Latex does indeed rule the day. Latex inner tubes that is. A relatively cheap way to enjoy quite a few benefits over butyl, seemingly minor in some cases. I'll never use anything else if at all possible. Vittoria. Could be a problem if you are allergic. Be sure to consult your physician.

 

[Eichers]

Originally Posted by danfoz .

Latex does indeed rule the day. Latex inner tubes that is. A relatively cheap way to enjoy quite a few benefits over butyl, seemingly minor in some cases. I'll never use anything else if at all possible. Vittoria. Could be a problem if you are allergic. Be sure to consult your physician.

Hi danfoz, /img/vbsmilies/smilies/eek.gif Vittoria. Could be a problem if you are allergic. Be sure to consult your physician. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/eek.gif, please explain ... thanks KL /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif

 

[danfoz]

Originally Posted by KLabs .

Hi danfoz, /img/vbsmilies/smilies/eek.gifVittoria. Could be a problem if you are allergic. Be sure to consult your physician. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/eek.gif, please explain ... thanks KL /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif

Vittoria is the brand I'm using. As for the latex allergy, apparently it induces severe skin reaction in a small segment of the population, but I am no doctor.

 

[alienator]

Vittoria is the brand I'm using. As for the latex allergy, apparently it induces severe skin reaction in a small segment of the population, but I am no doctor.

You're correct. It does, and in fact asking about a latex allergy is standard fare at hospitals, now, as well as many doctors' offices.

 

[Eichers]

Thanks guys /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif

Hi cheetahmk7, I use the the Panaracer R'Air tubes, which can be patched after a puncture, are light, keep air pressure nearly as good as a light weight butyl tubes (1 or 2 days), and are non-allergenic (at least the R'Air tubes never given me a rash).

If you use this tube just make sure you talcum powder it first so that it doesn't stick ... thanks KL /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif

 

[dhk2]

Originally Posted by KLabs .

Hi cheetahmk7, I did my first ride on this rear wheel this morning, a 60km ride, and it is a harsher than the same wheel, tyre, and tyre pressure without the spoke braces /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif

There is actually less bounce in the wheel but the nice part is when the road is smooth the wheel definitely wants to go ... interesting /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif

I believe the way around this, while still retaining the performance, is to use latex or r-air tubes like one of the following tubes in your rear wheel ...

http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-track-bike/panaracer-panaracer-tubes-inner-road-panaracer-r-air-lightweight-tube/panatube150
http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-track-bike/michelin-aircomp-latex-inner-tube/michtube350
http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-track-bike/michelin-aircomp-latex-tube/michtubm240
Vredestein latex tubes ...
etc

Thanks KL /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif

kl, sorry to be skeptical, but you're a biased observer. That's not an insult, just a fact about all of us humans who have pre-conceived notions.

Would be interesting if you could do a "blind" test with these wheels, to see if you could tell which was which without already knowing. The idea would be to have a helper/observer mount one rear wheel or the other without you knowing which is which. A coin toss could be used to determine which wheel is mounted. Then you do a short trial ride on a specified course, say 1 km on a track, without looking at the wheel. The observer could watch you go around to ensure you don't look down, or a fender-shield could be installed blocking your view, or you could wear a helmet cam.....some way to ensure you didn't get a peak at the rear wheel.

When you return, you state which one you've just ridden and it's recorded next to the helper's note on which is actually installed. Repeat for a set of 20 trials, then look at the results. My guess is that you'll be right no more than random chance would predict.....about 10 right out of 20. If you want to make the experiment even more valid, repeat the trials with the observer becoming the rider. If you do this, and show that you can guess which wheel is which 100%, then I'd think those little clip-on "braces" might be doing something.

Note, the wheels have to be identical in all respects except for the little brace things. The wheel/tire assembly also should be equally true and balanced before doing the test, as the wheel that feels "bouncy" to you is likely just more out of round or out of balance than the other one. There are probably lots more conditions, but those would only be important if your first blind experimental results showed positive, ie, indicated you could actually tell when you were riding the "braced" wheel.

 

[Eichers]

Hi dhk2, ok ... Thanks KL

 

[Eichers]

Originally Posted by KLabs .

Hi cheetahmk7, I did my first ride on this rear wheel this morning, a 60km ride, and it is a harsher than the same wheel, tyre, and tyre pressure without the spoke braces /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif

There is actually less bounce in the wheel but the nice part is when the road is smooth the wheel definitely wants to go ... interesting /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif

I believe the way around this, while still retaining the performance, is to use latex or r-air tubes like one of the following tubes in your rear wheel ...

http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-track-bike/panaracer-panaracer-tubes-inner-road-panaracer-r-air-lightweight-tube/panatube150
http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-track-bike/michelin-aircomp-latex-inner-tube/michtube350
http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-track-bike/michelin-aircomp-latex-tube/michtubm240
Vredestein latex tubes ...
etc

Thanks KL /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif

Hi cheetahmk7, what do you think of this approach ... Thanks KL /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif

 

[cheetahmk7]

I will give it a try without the braces but I won't run latex tubes. Having to pump tyres up every time that I want to go for a ride is very unappealing and it can lead to tube failures near the stem.

 

[Eichers]

Hi cheetahmk7, let us know your thoughts on the difference(s) /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif

I use the the Panaracer R'Air tubes, which are not latex but are like latex re supple ride, can be patched after a puncture, are light, keep air pressure nearly as good as a light weight butyl tubes, and and non-allergenicdo (no rash).

thanks KL /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif

 

[cheetahmk7]

How robust are those tubes?

I have about three years stock of tubes so I can't see myself swapping over anytime soon.

 

[danfoz]

Originally Posted by cheetahmk7 .

I will give it a try without the braces but I won't run latex tubes. Having to pump tyres up every time that I want to go for a ride is very unappealing and it can lead to tube failures near the stem.

Would really depend on the type of pump head one uses. Some pump heads lock on via a quick release and zero force is applied to release. Also in today's world of widely available mass media we would likely be hearing about it if it were happening with any prevalence.

 

[cheetahmk7]

I used to pump up my tyres before every ride but I stopped doing this when I realised that most of my flats were as a result of the tube failing near the stem. We are only talking about a flat every 6 to 12 months but still a nuisance. This was still with pumps sporting a quick release.

 

[danfoz]

Two flats in a year is a pretty good track record and I'm guessing about 2 or 3 flats was probably my yearly average (although I had one fateful ride many years ago when I flatted 3 times within 20 minutes on one ride, and only had two patches). Since I switched to latex last summer I haven't flatted once. That could be coincidence, but I've been inflating almost every day.

 

[dhk2]

Originally Posted by cheetahmk7 .

I used to pump up my tyres before every ride but I stopped doing this when I realised that most of my flats were as a result of the tube failing near the stem. We are only talking about a flat every 6 to 12 months but still a nuisance. This was still with pumps sporting a quick release.

You might try a different tube. I had the same problem for years using Bontrager tubes from an LBS. About every 6 months, tube would fail near the stem. Switched to Conti tubes, problem solved. They are noticeable thicker in the bond area between the stem and tube body.

Assume you've checked the stem hole in the rim for burrs and correct size. I "padded" the hole with duct tape from the underside on my rims, used stem nuts tightened down, then no stem nuts, nothing seemed to matter. I've changed wheels since then, but the Conti tubes are definitely a keeper. They save a lot of time, frustration and money vs the old cheapies I used before.

 

[danfoz]

Originally Posted by dhk2 .

You might try a different tube. I had the same problem for years using Bontrager tubes from an LBS. About every 6 months, tube would fail near the stem. Switched to Conti tubes, problem solved. They are noticeable thicker in the bond area between the stem and tube body.

Assume you've checked the stem hole in the rim for burrs and correct size. I "padded" the hole with duct tape from the underside on my rims, used stem nuts tightened down, then no stem nuts, nothing seemed to matter. I've changed wheels since then, but the Conti tubes are definitely a keeper. They save a lot of time, frustration and money vs the old cheapies I used before.

I had a blowout problem around the valves using Conti Race "Light" inner tubes. I had two of them just blowout at the valve after installing while the bike was sitting still. Had not ridden a single mile on them. Checked for burrs, etc. nothing. This happened same day with two tubes purchased at the same time (bad batch?). The first blew out, I installed the second tube and 3 minutes later BOOOM! No problems with the regular Conti Race tubes, but I will never use another Race Light.

 

[alienator]

Michelin inner tubes: it's what the gods ride.