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Paris-Nice

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5 March 2006
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bobke
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  1. whiteboytrash said:

    You're right.... 🙂

    “This allows me one more day of recuperation. Milan-San Remo is just a few days away and I want to save all of my strength for that test,” added Boonen. He also revealed that he would be compensating his team-mates himself for the 2,000-euro prize for the points winner at Paris-Nice that he sacrificed when he quit the race, with Samuel Sanchez inheriting that title.

    Boonen will spend Monday inspecting the final 55km for the San Remo route with his team-mates, will then return home for a day on Tuesday, before undertaking his final long training session before San Remo of six hours plus on Wednesday.

    That's some schedule : he finishes P-N.
    Then he travels to Milan - then back to Monaco.
    Then back to SanRemo to prepare for MSR.

    Even if I had the ability to a pro - I think that this is what would knacker me.
    The travel - the different food - sleeping in a different bed practically every second night.
    That's without the racing and training.
    These boys earn their money.

  2. [quote="Catabolic_Jones"]
    And congrats to Floyd! Although, thumbs down on the 70's cop chique:
    QUOTE]

    He does look a bit like King Richard in that shot, doesn't he?

  3. limerickman said:

    That's some schedule : he finishes P-N.
    Then he travels to Milan - then back to Monaco.
    Then back to SanRemo to prepare for MSR.

    Even if I had the ability to a pro - I think that this is what would knacker me.
    The travel - the different food - sleeping in a different bed practically every second night.
    That's without the racing and training.
    These boys earn their money.


    He has to go back to Belgium to check in with Frank Vanden Broucke's veterinarian.

    OK Im sorry I couldnt resist...I couldnt resist.
    But why WOULD he go back to Belgium which is freezing and covered in snow.
    He said he wanted to get away to be alone and train.

    I donmt really care but I know all you guys said the same stuff about Lance when he would go away after Dauphine and train at altitude etc see Ferrari and pick up all his micro doses of EPO.

  4. lazysegall said:

    Whats with this only GTs matter bias. Have you watched a classic? It's a different even entirely, especially the kind Boonen wins. By the end of his career when he wins all the classics and a maybe a GT be prepared to call him one of the top 3 riders ever.

    Yeah I might be crazy, but he has the potential. He probably won't do it, but he is capable of it. Assuming of course that he is clean.

    i don't have any GT bias... i love the classic. i agree that Boonen has great potential and is likely going to go down as a great classics rider if he keeps going like he's going... but he's just not GT material, primarily because of his lack of climbing ability.. but their's no shame in being a great classics rider. to me, it actually seems that the people that say he's going to win GTs have the GT bias... like, unless he wins GTs that he won't be worthy of being considered among the greats? i disagree with that completely.

  5. doctorSpoc said:

    i don't have any GT bias... i love the classic. i agree that Boonen has great potential and is likely going to go down as a great classics rider if he keeps going like he's going... but he's just not GT material, primarily because of his lack of climbing ability.. but their's no shame in being a great classics rider. to me, it actually seems that the people that say he's going to win GTs have the GT bias... like, unless he wins GTs that he won't be worthy of being considered among the greats? i disagree with that completely.


    Big Tom does not have the body to be a Grand Tour rider. He is a sprinter that can climb short hills that the classics offer. To win the GT you have to be able to be a mountain goat. Look at the GT winners..... There really wasn't a 1st class sprinter on the podium. Sure Eddy could sprint. But cycling has changed. The make-up of the teams have changed. Back then Eddy's team rode strictly for him, no one had aspirations of their own..ala Lance Armstrong.
    Sean Kelly was a great example of this. Kelly could climb very well. Kelly could sprint with the best of them. Kelly could win any Classic by going off the front.... But he could not win the TDF. And Kelly may be one of the top 10 riders of all time. It could even be argued he was second only to Merckx as the greatest all arounder. He did win the Tour of Spain but it was not contested like it is today.
    I feel way too much emphasis is on the TDF. As an American the TDF was the only race we had offered to us as fans.... But now with all the different types of internet sites and videos we have the classics available to us now. Personally, I think because of the importance of the TT and climbs in the TDF it has become pretty boring except for a stage now and then... A rider like Zabel who rides most of the year and challenges for the podium on a regular basis is far more of a great rider then a Lance, JU, or a Pantani...... I think back to Roches year of TDF, Giro, and the Worlds and realize today what a year he had!!!!!!

  6. Funny, I seem to remember a certain American who was going to be a great one day rider - until he lost some weight and, voila, emerged as a TdF champion...

  7. micron said:

    Funny, I seem to remember a certain American who was going to be a great one day rider - until he lost some weight and, voila, emerged as a TdF champion...

    You can subdivide the Classics... there are the flat classics (like roubaix, flanders etc.) and there are the hilly classic (Liège-Bastogne-Liège, Lombardi, Gent-Wevelgem, Flèche Wallonne, San Sebastian)... Milan SanRemo kinda staddles hilly and flat

    you'll see different sets of riders at the front of hilly classics (Bettini, DiLuca, Vinokourov, Rebellin, Boogered (don't know how man 2nd place finishes this guy has but he has a lot, ).. post GT season add all the top ten riders from the GTs Cunego, Basso, Valverde) and flat classics (Van Petegem, Wesseman, Boonen, Museeuw etc) and you'll notice GT riders at the front of the hilly sort of classics races. hilly classics suit the GT types that are more well rounded riders (i.e. not pure climbers.. they need huge mountain passes to really shine). hilly classic riders have the tools to possibly be GT contenders but for whatever reason... can't TT, can't ride consistently for a month, personality etc are just not good Stage racers and don't figure into GTs

    the point is that Armstrong was the hilly sort of classics rider... 1st at Fleche-Wallone, 2nd at Paris-Nice too.. so it put him into the ballpark, it was just his pure climbing ability that limited him... Di Luca, another hilly classics rider is trying to make the same sort of transition himself, Boogered tried but was not able to become a great GT rider but he is one of the greatest one day hilly classics riders out there.. more 2nd places that Ullrich 🙂

    Boonen is not in the ballpark of being a GT racer he's sitting in the parking lot outside the stadium..

  8. doctorSpoc said:

    ... Milan SanRemo kinda staddles hilly and flat


    Hey ? 😕

    milansanremo.co.uk2006sanremoroute.htm

  9. whiteboytrash said:

    Hey ? 😕

    milansanremo.co.uk2006sanremoroute.htm

    in that those little bumps at the end of almost 300km give the hilly classics type riders a chance.. not that it is a hilly classic per se

  10. micron said:

    Funny, I seem to remember a certain American who was going to be a great one day rider - until he lost some weight and, voila, emerged as a TdF champion...


    The chemo therapy was what made the weight loss possible. I really doubt that Lance could have had the weight loss that he had without it. If I understand chemo, what it does is destroys the body. That's it's job. Then the cancer re-hab re-builds the body.

    Even then , Lance was a whole different rider. He was not a sprinter. He wasn't bad, but the difference between a man that can sprint at the end of the day against other tired riders and a true sprinter is vast.

    And something else no one seems to talk about is the great stage racers ability to recover after a hard day. That ability is what makes stage racers TDF champions. Maybe Boonen has that ability, but few cyclists do. Indurain and Lemond was noted for their ability to do that.
    It was said, and this is maybe be a TDF myth, that Indurain's heart beat would slow up to a normal heart beat on the downward side of a major climb. That his recovery HB was just unreal.

    Plus, cycling is evolving into a specialized game where riders try and base their whole season on one event or several events in a certain part of the season. Being a great Classics rider and a World Champion carries a whole lot of weight. Boonen does not need the TDF.

  11. [font=Verdana]No. Chemotherapy kills red blood cells and the proteins which form that allow the cancer to reproduce. (This is where EPO helps - its important to maintain almost normal red blood cell count and keep your platelets up). The weight loss comes from post chemotherapy related nausea as you are unable eat solids or digest food as well as you normally could... you also lose your sense of taste and do not want to eat. (Most patients eat ice). In addition to this you are bed ridden and tired for large periods of the day and you lose muscle mass from the lack of movement. (Most patients with cancer are out patients and are not bed ridden. Lance was)
    [/font]

    wolfix said:

    The chemo therapy was what made the weight loss possible. I really doubt that Lance could have had the weight loss that he had without it. If I understand chemo, what it does is destroys the body. That's it's job. Then the cancer re-hab re-builds the body.

    Even then , Lance was a whole different rider. He was not a sprinter. He wasn't bad, but the difference between a man that can sprint at the end of the day against other tired riders and a true sprinter is vast.

    And something else no one seems to talk about is the great stage racers ability to recover after a hard day. That ability is what makes stage racers TDF champions. Maybe Boonen has that ability, but few cyclists do. Indurain and Lemond was noted for their ability to do that.
    It was said, and this is maybe be a TDF myth, that Indurain's heart beat would slow up to a normal heart beat on the downward side of a major climb. That his recovery HB was just unreal.

    Plus, cycling is evolving into a specialized game where riders try and base their whole season on one event or several events in a certain part of the season. Being a great Classics rider and a World Champion carries a whole lot of weight. Boonen does not need the TDF.

  12. whiteboytrash said:

    [font=Verdana]No. Chemotherapy kills red blood cells and the proteins which form that allow the cancer to reproduce. (This is where EPO helps - its important to maintain almost normal red blood cell count and keep your platelets up). The weight loss comes from post chemotherapy related nausea as you are unable eat solids or digest food as well as you normally could... you also lose your sense of taste and do not want to eat. (Most patients eat ice). In addition to this you are bed ridden and tired for large periods of the day and you lose muscle mass from the lack of movement. (Most patients with cancer are out patients and are not bed ridden. Lance was)
    [/font]


    I have no real medical background, but after spending many hours in the cancer hospitol with family I can see the toll it takes. I don't think Lance would have ever been a contender fo the TDF without cancer.

  13. wolfix said:

    The chemo therapy was what made the weight loss possible. I really doubt that Lance could have had the weight loss that he had without it. ...

    myth... weight loss yes.. because of cancer no... at least according to Ed Coyle.. the pysiologist that Lance allowed to follow his progression though the years...

    "...During Coyle's study, Armstrong was diagnosed with cancer and underwent surgery and chemotherapy. Remarkably, Armstrong showed no ill effects from the cancer upon his recovery. It has been suggested that Armstrong lost weight from the cancer, making him a leaner (and better) cyclist. But Armstrong's weight eight months after his chemotherapy was the same as before his cancer treatment, according to Coyle.

    However, surviving cancer almost certainly made Armstrong a stronger athlete mentally. Sports scientists agree that Armstrong is one of the most disciplined and focused athletes in the world..."

    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/07/0722_050722_armstrong_2.html

  14. doctorSpoc said:

    myth... weight loss yes.. because of cancer no... at least according to Ed Coyle.. the pysiologist that Lance allowed to follow his progression though the years...

    "...During Coyle's study, Armstrong was diagnosed with cancer and underwent surgery and chemotherapy. Remarkably, Armstrong showed no ill effects from the cancer upon his recovery. It has been suggested that Armstrong lost weight from the cancer, making him a leaner (and better) cyclist. But Armstrong's weight eight months after his chemotherapy was the same as before his cancer treatment, according to Coyle.

    However, surviving cancer almost certainly made Armstrong a stronger athlete mentally. Sports scientists agree that Armstrong is one of the most disciplined and focused athletes in the world..."

    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/07/0722_050722_armstrong_2.html

    Well I think that there was certainly muscle wasting from whatever sources during his treatment--calorie loss, lack of use, and chemo. Chemo breaks down any cell thats replicating and certainly can have lasting effects of direct toxicity.. Little known fact, Lance certainly lost 10-25 % of his renal function as a side effect of the chemo,. Known fact. If it can do that to kidenys it can do that to muscle...there just isnt much evidence with high level athletes of performance studies pre and post chemo...right??

    Since his tri days which involved a lot of upper body work, he certainly lost that bulk aftyer cnacer as any picture will show. He also may have lost a fair amount of muscle mass, gained weight back after treatment but regardless of absolute weight, the real question is percentage body fat v muscle mass lost post cancer. WHatever. He came back a slimmer rider.

    He also became disciplined and with the knowledge that with a strict diet he could maintain a weight that with his power output could keep him with the top climbers, it was AFTER the Vuelta 98 that he really slimmed down as the pictures will show. The Vuelta showed him somewhat thinner to be sure, but also that with loss of maybe 10 pounds more he could stay with the best climbers. What no one really knew including Lance and Bruyneel was that when at peak training he would DROP their asses like Sestriere.

    But to quote him they must have known something because after the initial ITT in 1999, he said that his coaches and team and advisors thought his real strength would be his climbing not his TT so that "maybe" be could try and hold on to the jersey in the mountains. Funny eh?

    The other issue with his high cadence is from Indurain that it does less danage and stress on muscles compared to mashing larger gears uphill and the muscles recover better allowing repeated high level performances. Before Lance powered uphill. Because of his very high VO2Max and low lactate produced this new pedalling aloowed him to limit muscle fatigue and stress. Before he would destroy himself in a one day race and not be able to sustain over and over in stage races as he did later.

  15. wolfix said:

    And something else no one seems to talk about is the great stage racers ability to recover after a hard day. That ability is what makes stage racers TDF champions. Maybe Boonen has that ability, but few cyclists do. Indurain and Lemond was noted for their ability to do that.
    It was said, and this is maybe be a TDF myth, that Indurain's heart beat would slow up to a normal heart beat on the downward side of a major climb. That his recovery HB was just unreal.

    Indurain was a freak - in terms of his physicality.

    Indurain's max heart rate was 196 : within 60 seconds of ceasing exercise that heart rate would drop to the low 50's.
    His resting rate was 28.

    His doctor Sabino Padilla measured Indurain's numbers : his lung capacity was double the size of a normal human being.
    His resting heart rate was substantially lower than normal human beings.
    His heart processed one litre of blood at full capacity every minute - way ahead of all other measurements recorded for athletes.
    Sabino Padilla noted that the region where Indurain is from - produces a number of noted endurance athletes like Lejarreta, the marathon runner Martin Fiz.

  16. micron said:

    Funny, I seem to remember a certain American who was going to be a great one day rider - until he lost some weight and, voila, emerged as a TdF champion...

    There is some evidence that suggests that his improvement was not just from weight loss. 😉

  17. mitosis said:

    There is some evidence that suggests that his improvement was not just from weight loss. 😉


    Lance did pretty well in Paris Nice before cancer.
    1996:
    Final overall:

    1. Laurent Jalabert (Fra) Once 34.28.14
    2. Lance Armstrong (USA) Motorola + 0.43
    3. Chris Boardman (Eng) Gan + 0.47

  18. wolfix said:

    Big Tom does not have the body to be a Grand Tour rider. He is a sprinter that can climb short hills that the classics offer. To win the GT you have to be able to be a mountain goat. Look at the GT winners..... There really wasn't a 1st class sprinter on the podium. Sure Eddy could sprint. But cycling has changed. The make-up of the teams have changed. Back then Eddy's team rode strictly for him, no one had aspirations of their own..ala Lance Armstrong.
    Sean Kelly was a great example of this. Kelly could climb very well. Kelly could sprint with the best of them. Kelly could win any Classic by going off the front.... But he could not win the TDF. And Kelly may be one of the top 10 riders of all time. It could even be argued he was second only to Merckx as the greatest all arounder. He did win the Tour of Spain but it was not contested like it is today.
    I feel way too much emphasis is on the TDF. As an American the TDF was the only race we had offered to us as fans.... But now with all the different types of internet sites and videos we have the classics available to us now. Personally, I think because of the importance of the TT and climbs in the TDF it has become pretty boring except for a stage now and then... A rider like Zabel who rides most of the year and challenges for the podium on a regular basis is far more of a great rider then a Lance, JU, or a Pantani...... I think back to Roches year of TDF, Giro, and the Worlds and realize today what a year he had!!!!!!

    Ahh, but Kelly came in fourth in the TdF, as close as strong climber Andy Hampsten ever got!

  19. tcklyde said:

    Ahh, but Kelly came in fourth in the TdF, as close as strong climber Andy Hampsten ever got!


    That is true. But Andy was a great climber. Kelly was a good climber. And the TDF seems to won by great climbers and /or great time trialers. And Kelly was good at both,but not great. I have watched Andy climb in the Colorado Rockies.. He is not a power climber by no means. Wasn't Andy working for GregLemond when he got 4th place???? I don't remember.

  20. lazysegall said:

    Green Jersey in PN...be serious. There are very few things that actually matter to TB and PN Green Jersey is not one of them...I mean seriously what other sprinters were in the race. Boonen is preparing for MSR, Flanders, Roubaix...don't ask the man to be a gentlemen for a warmup race.

    If anyone can off the top of their head name even 5 winners of the green jersey at PN I will give them a cookie.

    No doubt, it is a warmup race for Boonen, and not the biggest victory. As someone pointed out -- Lim, I think -- the man has a tough schedule.

    Nonetheless, come on. Paris-Nice ain't chopped liver. It's been around for over half a century and a lot of people work hard to make it a good event and a serious and prestigious race. No doubt, many previous winners and planners of the race don't think of it as nothing but training fodder for MSR.

    Boonen started the last stage. So why not finish it? Pulling out devalues the points jersey in the race and makes it less likely future points jerseys will matter.

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