OT Fuel protests

Simon Brooke <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<80pnn1-

Quoted message said:

...and they taste of nothing. If you're going to have flavourless food,
there's no need to import it from the other end of the earth.

Remember though that before WW2 and U boat attacks on cargo ships, we
imported much more of our produce from abroad (OK we had an empire
then). Dig for Victory turned us into a nation of farmers, and look
where we are now! Home grown is not necessarily most efficient or even
best quality.

in message <[email hidden]>, Gawnsoft

(') said:

I'm going to drive this weekend! (Fourth car hire of the year)

Mind you, I am going to drive to Millport for a families' cycling
weekend holiday on Cumbrae...

Say 'Hi' to Sandy.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Due to financial constraints, the light at the end of the tunnel
has been switched off.

Simonb said:

Richard Corfield said:

Simonb said:

Hear, hear! The last 'blockade' was the only time we've ever sat in
our garden during the daytime without hearing the noise of traffic
from the A335, apart from Southampton's FA cup final last(?) year.

I need time still to get my fitness up to being able to do the 30
mile round trip involving a big valley with steep sides 5 days a
week.

I seem to have gone slower today - maybe a side effect of carrying an
ex bathroom suite to the local tip on Sunday. The thought of putting
wheels on the bath and towing it behind a trike did cross my mind,
but in the end it was quicker to carry it between us.

- Richard

Does not compute.

Computes after a second, closer read.

On 18/5/04 7:29 am, in article [email hidden],

Gawnsoft said:

On Mon, 17 May 2004 18:53:30 +0000 (UTC), "al_Mossah"
<[email hidden]> wrote (more or less):

Quoted message said:

Mothers sharing the school run when they live as far as 100m apart from each
other...

Mothers stopping school-running when they live only 5 mins walk from
the school.

My wife does the school run, but only because they leave so late they can't
get there on time if they just walk. Never mind, It's good for the
cardiovascular system.

(No I have never driven the kids to school. It is quicker to walk 300m than
to get the car out of the garage at 8.45 on a weekday).

...d

On 18/5/04 7:33 am, in article
[email hidden], "MartinM"

Quoted message said:

Simon Brooke <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<80pnn1-

Quoted message said:

...and they taste of nothing. If you're going to have flavourless food,
there's no need to import it from the other end of the earth.

Remember though that before WW2 and U boat attacks on cargo ships, we
imported much more of our produce from abroad (OK we had an empire
then).

Very few things. You forget the kitchen garden and village economy. Most of
the food produced was invisible in the economic market as people did grow a
lot more of their own.

Quoted message said:

Dig for Victory turned us into a nation of farmers, and look
where we are now! Home grown is not necessarily most efficient or even
best quality.

It may not be as efficient but you get the benefit of reduced cost (labour
costs virtually nothing), improved flavour, better choice of varieties (no
one grows my favourite apple commercially), and a great deal of
satisfaction.

This year we got an allotment which has taken a great impact on my cycling
time. However I am looking forward to being able to wander into work and
pick up a few punnets of fresh, ripe strawberries in perfect condition on
the way. If you have only ever had supermarket strawberries then you do not
know what you are missing.

Fresh herbs, spinach, tomatoes, peppers, beans, more beans, carrots, beets,
parsnips, potatoes. Pumpkins and courgettes. Grapes and melons.

And during the off season we source veg from a local farm, trying to
minimise the food miles. I haven't bought a jar of honey from the
supermarket because I can't find one that is made in UK, let alone locally.
The local honey producer sells at the farmers market and is delicious.

...d

Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as David
Martin <[email hidden]> breathed:

Quoted message said:

On 18/5/04 7:29 am, in article [email hidden],

Gawnsoft said:

On Mon, 17 May 2004 18:53:30 +0000 (UTC), "al_Mossah"
<[email hidden]> wrote (more or less):

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Mothers sharing the school run when they live as far as 100m apart from each
other...

Mothers stopping school-running when they live only 5 mins walk from
the school.

My wife does the school run, but only because they leave so late they can't
get there on time if they just walk. Never mind, It's good for the
cardiovascular system.

?????

That makes no sense at all, and if the kids don't leave the house until
they'd be late by walking, well just let them be late and after a few
days or so of tellings off and detention they'll soon lean to get up a
few minutes earlier.

Or you could try setting all the clocks in the house 10 minutes fast.

Quoted message said:

(No I have never driven the kids to school. It is quicker to walk 300m than
to get the car out of the garage at 8.45 on a weekday).

And that makes even less sense - if it's quicker to walk than drive, how
does your wife driving them avoid being late?

- Seriously confused!

--
- Pyromancer.
- http://www.inkubus-sukkubus.co.uk <-- Pagan Gothic Rock!
- http://www.littlematchgirl.co.uk <-- Electronic Metal!
- http://www.revival.stormshadow.com <-- The Gothic Revival.

Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as Tony Raven
<[email hidden]> breathed:

Quoted message said:

"Pyromancer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Arrghh - yes, that drives me up the wall! Whenever I know I'll be
stopped for more than a minute or so I switch the engine off (and if the
jam is on a slope, leave it off and roll slowly down using the
footbrake), but everyone else just seems to sit there, idling away,
engines turning over at 900-ish RPM, burning fuel to no purpose and
pumping out huge quantities of exhaust.

Quoted message said:

Air conditioning (esp. yesterday)?

Unnecessary waste of power! :-) <this is a uk.railway in-joke>

Quoted message said:

Rolling on the footbrake is fine but with
power assisted brakes and steering its not always a good idea to use them
without.

Bear in mind I'm talking about the kind of traffic jam where the car in
front pulls forward one car-length and then stops again, rather than
doing likewise I prefer to let the car roll *very* slowly (less than
walking speed, usually) so the lack of power brakes and steering isn't
usually a problenm. If the jam is moving faster than that I tend to try
and idle along steadily in 1st gear, rather than doing the start-stop
tango.

--
- Pyromancer.
- http://www.inkubus-sukkubus.co.uk <-- Pagan Gothic Rock!
- http://www.littlematchgirl.co.uk <-- Electronic Metal!
- http://www.revival.stormshadow.com <-- The Gothic Revival.

Pyromancer <[email hidden]> wrote:

: And that makes even less sense - if it's quicker to walk than drive, how
: does your wife driving them avoid being late?

You're missing the pun. Go back and read David's post again....

--
Arthur Clune http://www.clune.org
"Technolibertarians make a philosophy out of a personality defect"
- Paulina Borsook

Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as Arthur
Clune <[email hidden]> breathed:

Quoted message said:

Pyromancer <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

: And that makes even less sense - if it's quicker to walk than drive, how
: does your wife driving them avoid being late?

Quoted message said:

You're missing the pun. Go back and read David's post again....

Doh! Ok, got it now. Run as in run, not drive. :-)

--
- Pyromancer.
- http://www.inkubus-sukkubus.co.uk <-- Pagan Gothic Rock!
- http://www.littlematchgirl.co.uk <-- Electronic Metal!
- http://www.revival.stormshadow.com <-- The Gothic Revival.

Pyromancer said:

Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as Tony Raven
<[email hidden]> breathed:

Quoted message said:

"Pyromancer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Arrghh - yes, that drives me up the wall! Whenever I know I'll be
stopped for more than a minute or so I switch the engine off (and if the
jam is on a slope, leave it off and roll slowly down using the
footbrake), but everyone else just seems to sit there, idling away,
engines turning over at 900-ish RPM, burning fuel to no purpose and
pumping out huge quantities of exhaust.

Quoted message said:

Air conditioning (esp. yesterday)?

Unnecessary waste of power! :-) <this is a uk.railway in-joke>

Quoted message said:

Rolling on the footbrake is fine but with
power assisted brakes and steering its not always a good idea to use them
without.

Bear in mind I'm talking about the kind of traffic jam where the car in
front pulls forward one car-length and then stops again, rather than
doing likewise I prefer to let the car roll *very* slowly (less than
walking speed, usually) so the lack of power brakes and steering isn't
usually a problenm. If the jam is moving faster than that I tend to try

You say "usually". Does that mean it's sometimes a problem ;-)

Quoted message said:

and idle along steadily in 1st gear, rather than doing the start-stop
tango.

Does this help? Is it better overall to keep moving slowly, or to idle
and them move forward when there's a car or so gap in front? I do as
you do, often, and try to move forward at idle in first gear, but I don't
know if it really helps any.

--
Trevor Barton

On Mon, 17 May 2004 18:34:50 +0100 someone who may be "gavin"
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

I believe that the fuel should be cheaper
for trucks and more expensive for cars. The majority of Europe agrees with
this and discounts diesel relative to petrol.

They also have a range of other taxes on lorries, which those making
spurious comparisons tend to neglect to mention.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

On 18/5/04 11:07 am, in article [email hidden],

Pyromancer said:

Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as David
Martin <[email hidden]> breathed:

Quoted message said:

On 18/5/04 7:29 am, in article [email hidden],

Gawnsoft said:

On Mon, 17 May 2004 18:53:30 +0000 (UTC), "al_Mossah"
<[email hidden]> wrote (more or less):

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Mothers sharing the school run when they live as far as 100m apart from
> each
> other...
Mothers stopping school-running when they live only 5 mins walk from
the school.

My wife does the school run, but only because they leave so late they can't
get there on time if they just walk. Never mind, It's good for the
cardiovascular system.

?????

not a word about driving here. Who mentioned a car?

Quoted message said:

That makes no sense at all, and if the kids don't leave the house until
they'd be late by walking, well just let them be late and after a few
days or so of tellings off and detention they'll soon lean to get up a
few minutes earlier.

Or make them *run*.

Quoted message said:

Or you could try setting all the clocks in the house 10 minutes fast.

They already are. Risk homeostasis in action. I need a clock that runs with
a gaussian accuracy so you know that it is broadly the right time but never
exactly what time it is.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(No I have never driven the kids to school. It is quicker to walk 300m than
to get the car out of the garage at 8.45 on a weekday).

And that makes even less sense - if it's quicker to walk than drive, how
does your wife driving them avoid being late?

She's not driving them. Hence the school *run*. No one mentioned driving my
kids to school until you did. (I mentioned NOT driving them to school).

Quoted message said:

- Seriously confused!

Hopefully less so. It was a pun that appears to have passed you by.

...d

Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as Trevor
Barton <[email hidden]> breathed:

Quoted message said:

Pyromancer said:

Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as Tony Raven
<[email hidden]> breathed:

Quoted message said:

"Pyromancer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

> Arrghh - yes, that drives me up the wall! Whenever I know I'll be
> stopped for more than a minute or so I switch the engine off (and if the
> jam is on a slope, leave it off and roll slowly down using the
> footbrake), but everyone else just seems to sit there, idling away,
> engines turning over at 900-ish RPM, burning fuel to no purpose and
> pumping out huge quantities of exhaust.

Quoted message said:

Air conditioning (esp. yesterday)?

Unnecessary waste of power! :-) <this is a uk.railway in-joke>

Quoted message said:

Rolling on the footbrake is fine but with
power assisted brakes and steering its not always a good idea to use them
without.

Bear in mind I'm talking about the kind of traffic jam where the car in
front pulls forward one car-length and then stops again, rather than
doing likewise I prefer to let the car roll *very* slowly (less than
walking speed, usually) so the lack of power brakes and steering isn't
usually a problenm. If the jam is moving faster than that I tend to try

You say "usually". Does that mean it's sometimes a problem ;-)

LOL!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and idle along steadily in 1st gear, rather than doing the start-stop
tango.

Quoted message said:

Does this help? Is it better overall to keep moving slowly, or to idle
and them move forward when there's a car or so gap in front? I do as
you do, often, and try to move forward at idle in first gear, but I don't
know if it really helps any.

Well, from my own POV it means avoiding extra wear-cycles on the clutch,
brakes, my left knee, etc. I also suspect a line of traffic all going
steadily forward at a low speed causes less noise and consumes less fuel
than one where everyone is revving up, pulling forward a bit, and then
braking again.

Sometimes on motorways I wish we had a system that would force everyone
to slow down to the advisory speed (as in auto-controls that would take
over and prevent boy-racer style behaviour) whenever there's an
obstruction or roadworks, as most of the time if people slowed down
there'd be less delay, but instead you still get idiots racing ahead
only to stand on their brakes a few hundred yards further on, forcing
everyone else into start-stop instead of steady speed.

This is getting seriously OT though!

--
- Pyromancer.
- http://www.inkubus-sukkubus.co.uk <-- Pagan Gothic Rock!
- http://www.littlematchgirl.co.uk <-- Electronic Metal!
- http://www.revival.stormshadow.com <-- The Gothic Revival.

in message <[email hidden]>, Pyromancer

(') said:

Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as David
Martin <[email hidden]> breathed:

Quoted message said:

My wife does the school run, but only because they leave so late they
can't get there on time if they just walk. Never mind, It's good for
the cardiovascular system.

That makes no sense at all, and if the kids don't leave the house
until they'd be late by walking, well just let them be late and after
a few days or so of tellings off and detention they'll soon lean to
get up a few minutes earlier.

Or you could try setting all the clocks in the house 10 minutes fast.

Quoted message said:

(No I have never driven the kids to school. It is quicker to walk 300m
than to get the car out of the garage at 8.45 on a weekday).

And that makes even less sense - if it's quicker to walk than drive,
how does your wife driving them avoid being late?

She doesn't drive, she runs. RTFP.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Tony Blair's epitaph, #1: Here lies Tony Blair.
Tony Blair's epitaph, #2: Trust me.

Pyromancer said:

Bear in mind I'm talking about the kind of traffic jam where the car in
front pulls forward one car-length and then stops again, rather than
doing likewise I prefer to let the car roll *very* slowly (less than
walking speed, usually) so the lack of power brakes and steering isn't

Fair enough on motorways, but I really hate this behaviour as a
pedestrian, because it makes it much more dangerous (at least, I
perceive it as more dangerous) to cross the road in front of you.
Short of a big sign on the car saying "I am rolling slowly forward on
purpose and am still in control of the vehicle" it's tricky to
distinguish this from someone who had stopped and failed to realise
they were on a slope, or hadn't pulled the handbrake on properly for
some reason, or similar.

-dan

--
"please make sure that the person is your friend before you confirm"

Arthur Clune said:

Pyromancer <[email hidden]> wrote:

: And that makes even less sense - if it's quicker to walk than drive, how
: does your wife driving them avoid being late?

You're missing the pun. Go back and read David's post again....

That was hardly a pun and certainly doesn't count as humour. The sun is
evidently addling people's minds. ;-)

--
Michael MacClancy
Random putdown - "He loves nature in spite of what it did to him." -
Forrest Tucker
www.macclancy.demon.co.uk
www.macclancy.co.uk

Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as Daniel
Barlow <[email hidden]> breathed:

Quoted message said:

Fair enough on motorways, but I really hate this behaviour as a
pedestrian, because it makes it much more dangerous (at least, I
perceive it as more dangerous) to cross the road in front of you.
Short of a big sign on the car saying "I am rolling slowly forward on
purpose and am still in control of the vehicle" it's tricky to
distinguish this from someone who had stopped and failed to realise
they were on a slope, or hadn't pulled the handbrake on properly for
some reason, or similar.

I tend to only do this in "out of course" jams, where roadworks or an
accident have blocked or reduced the road and the traffic is piling up.
In normal town driving with rapid traffic light sequences it doesn't
really work. And in a jam I'll always tend to stop for pedestrians,
cyclists, people pulling out of side roads or parking bays, and busses.
Letting someone in isn't going to make any significant difference and
makes for a pleasanter jam for everyone, so why not?

I really don't understand why some people become maniacs behind a
steering wheel, yes it's easy to get wound up but all that gets you is
health problems. Though it can be amusing to watch the "must get ahead
of everyone else" nuts behind getting more and more wound up each time I
let someone else out - they also tend to get very annoyed when I slow to
the correct speed limit at motorway roadworks and they can't pass,
though the advent of roadwork speed cameras calmed lots of them down.

--
- Pyromancer.
- http://www.inkubus-sukkubus.co.uk <-- Pagan Gothic Rock!
- http://www.littlematchgirl.co.uk <-- Electronic Metal!
- http://www.revival.stormshadow.com <-- The Gothic Revival.

On Tue, 18 May 2004 08:35:07 GMT, Simon Brooke <[email hidden]>
wrote (more or less):

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Gawnsoft

(') said:

I'm going to drive this weekend! (Fourth car hire of the year)

Mind you, I am going to drive to Millport for a families' cycling
weekend holiday on Cumbrae...

Say 'Hi' to Sandy.

I'm rather expecting to say 'Hi Sandy can I have some bikes and a
kiddy seat?' :-)

--
Cheers,
Euan
Gawnsoft: http://www.gawnsoft.co.sr
Symbian/Epoc wiki: http://html.dnsalias.net:1122
Smalltalk links (harvested from comp.lang.smalltalk) http://html.dnsalias.net/gawnsoft/smalltalk

On Tue, 18 May 2004 12:46:27 +0100, David Martin
<[email hidden]> wrote (more or less):

Quoted message said:

They already are. Risk homeostasis in action. I need a clock that runs with
a gaussian accuracy so you know that it is broadly the right time but never
exactly what time it is.

That's pretty much what I attempt to do.

I set them all to about 7 minutes fast, in one fell swoop.

I don't check how close to right they are, and then I amend them all
in one fell swoop again about three months later.

(Being careful not to notice which ones are slower time after time,
which ones are faster.)

So I never know for sure if they're fast or slow or about right, and
they all disagree with each other...

--
Cheers,
Euan
Gawnsoft: http://www.gawnsoft.co.sr
Symbian/Epoc wiki: http://html.dnsalias.net:1122
Smalltalk links (harvested from comp.lang.smalltalk) http://html.dnsalias.net/gawnsoft/smalltalk

Gawnsoft said:

I set them all to about 7 minutes fast, in one fell swoop.

I don't check how close to right they are, and then I amend them all
in one fell swoop again about three months later.

(Being careful not to notice which ones are slower time after time,
which ones are faster.)

So I never know for sure if they're fast or slow or about right, and
they all disagree with each other...

My parents' house is an interesting place for time. Mum is congenitally
late, and knowing this has set the clocks fast to get her going sooner,
but the trick is that they're progressively faster the further you get
from the front door! But... she knows more or less how fast they all
are and rather undermines the whole exercise by taking that into account
when getting ready to go anywhere, so remaining congenitally late, but
the effect on anyone else is they never have any idea what the time is.
I think the only safe clock in the place is on the VCR...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/