OT Fuel protests

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 16 May 2004 16:36:10 +0100, "Simon Mason"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

What? In your Volvo? ;-)

Oh yes, I did drive once this week, I'd forgotten.

Yes I can talk. I drive to work when I'm on nights and to collect my beer
supplies to the tune of about 6 times week. So I'm not worthy ;-)

--
Simon Mason
Anlaby
East Yorkshire.
53°44'N 0°26'WT
http://www.simonmason.karoo.net

Simon Mason said:

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

No they aren't. No farmer in Britain runs a commerical business. They're
hugely subsidised out of your tax money - to the tune of (in Scotland)
an average of £26,000 per annum each. And, remember, next time you see
a huge tractor on the road, not only did you pay for it out of your
taxes, but the fuel it's burning doesn't pay a penny to the exchequer.

Are farmers allowed to use red diesel on public roads?

Only in very limited ways. I think they are allowed to use the roads when
vehicles which are used primarily offroad need to be moved from one bit of
land to another. They can't fill up their 4x4 with red diesel since it
will be used on road for other journeys. Also red diesel does contriubute
money to the exchequer, there is a small amount of duty and there is VAT
(probably at 5%)

This applies to other users of red diesel. We use red diesel for our
back-up electricity generators. We can't stick it in our car but I can use
it for cleaning sprockets!

Colin

Colin Blackburn said:

This applies to other users of red diesel.

I seem to remember that the yachting fraternity still benefits from red
diesel. It's used by trawlers and the like and the yachties buy it from the
same pontoons.

Simonb said:

Colin Blackburn said:

This applies to other users of red diesel.

I seem to remember that the yachting fraternity still benefits from red
diesel. It's used by trawlers and the like and the yachties buy it from
the
same pontoons.

Yes, and as they are using red diesel they too can't drive their vehicles
on the highway ;-)

I appreciate that people will use red diesel illegally. I know when we
have got into the position of having an almost empty tank in the car we
have looked at the spare tank containing 500 litres of diesel and thought,
"just a couple of litres won't hurt." However, when we bought the diesel
our details were immediately forwarded to Customs and Excise. Although we
havn't had a visit yet I do expect an Excise man to turn up one day and
dip the tank.

Colin

Simonb said:

I seem to remember that the yachting fraternity still benefits from
red diesel. It's used by trawlers and the like and the yachties buy
it from the same pontoons.

At vastly inflated prices ;-)

--
Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

Victory is ours! Down with Eric the Half A Brain!

in message <[email hidden]>, Simon Mason

(') said:

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

No they aren't. No farmer in Britain runs a commerical business.
They're hugely subsidised out of your tax money - to the tune of (in
Scotland) an average of £26,000 per annum each. And, remember, next
time you see a huge tractor on the road, not only did you pay for it
out of your taxes, but the fuel it's burning doesn't pay a penny to
the exchequer.

Are farmers allowed to use red diesel on public roads?

No, they're not, except within the boundaries of their own farm.
However, I would be enormously surprised if you could find any farm
tractor in Britain that had ever had a fill of DERV.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Iraq war: it's time for regime change...
... go now, Tony, while you can still go with dignity.

Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as Sam Salt
<[email hidden]> breathed:

Quoted message said:

Ran a Half Marathon in Leeds this morning.Of course the majority of the
roads were closed/blocked off.With a few exceptions cars were stood with
their engines running in the resulting long queues.Petrol too expensive ?
Not too expensive to waste evidently.

Arrghh - yes, that drives me up the wall! Whenever I know I'll be
stopped for more than a minute or so I switch the engine off (and if the
jam is on a slope, leave it off and roll slowly down using the
footbrake), but everyone else just seems to sit there, idling away,
engines turning over at 900-ish RPM, burning fuel to no purpose and
pumping out huge quantities of exhaust.

Then again when the engine is running I'm aware of pistons going up and
down, valves opening and closing, and fuel flowing in and burning - I
get the impression many people think of turning on a car as the same as
turning on a radio, and just leave it on till they've finished with it.
:-(

--
- Pyromancer.
- http://www.inkubus-sukkubus.co.uk <-- Pagan Gothic Rock!
- http://www.littlematchgirl.co.uk <-- Electronic Metal!
- http://www.revival.stormshadow.com <-- The Gothic Revival.

Pyromancer said:

Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as Sam Salt
<[email hidden]> breathed:

Quoted message said:

Ran a Half Marathon in Leeds this morning.Of course the majority of the
roads were closed/blocked off.With a few exceptions cars were stood with
their engines running in the resulting long queues.Petrol too expensive ?
Not too expensive to waste evidently.

Arrghh - yes, that drives me up the wall! Whenever I know I'll be
stopped for more than a minute or so I switch the engine off (and if the
jam is on a slope, leave it off and roll slowly down using the
footbrake), but everyone else just seems to sit there, idling away,
engines turning over at 900-ish RPM, burning fuel to no purpose and
pumping out huge quantities of exhaust.

Then again when the engine is running I'm aware of pistons going up and
down, valves opening and closing, and fuel flowing in and burning - I
get the impression many people think of turning on a car as the same as
turning on a radio, and just leave it on till they've finished with it.
:-(

This is a major contrast with Germany, where people routinely turn off
their engines when waiting. At level crossings there are often signs
instructing you to turn off your engine.
--
Michael MacClancy
Random putdown - "His mother should have thrown him away and kept the
stork." - Mae West
www.macclancy.demon.co.uk
www.macclancy.co.uk

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Simon Mason

(') said:

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

No they aren't. No farmer in Britain runs a commerical business.
They're hugely subsidised out of your tax money - to the tune of (in
Scotland) an average of £26,000 per annum each. And, remember, next
time you see a huge tractor on the road, not only did you pay for it
out of your taxes, but the fuel it's burning doesn't pay a penny to
the exchequer.

Are farmers allowed to use red diesel on public roads?

No, they're not, except within the boundaries of their own farm.
However, I would be enormously surprised if you could find any farm
tractor in Britain that had ever had a fill of DERV.

How does that work, seeing as many farms these days seem to be
distributed across the countryside? Some of the farmers around us
have single fields some way away from their barns and house. Or do you
just mean in their 4wds or whatever?

--
Trevor Barton

Michael MacClancy said:

This is a major contrast with Germany, where people routinely turn off
their engines when waiting. At level crossings there are often signs
instructing you to turn off your engine.

Ditto Sweden, IIRC.

Guy

"Pyromancer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Arrghh - yes, that drives me up the wall! Whenever I know I'll be
stopped for more than a minute or so I switch the engine off (and if the
jam is on a slope, leave it off and roll slowly down using the
footbrake), but everyone else just seems to sit there, idling away,
engines turning over at 900-ish RPM, burning fuel to no purpose and
pumping out huge quantities of exhaust.

I do the same, but you have to be careful with modern brakes that are servo
assisted since once the engine is off, you need a lot more foot pressure to
keep the car still. Also, if you leave your ignition on you will dazzle rear
traffic with the high intensity brake lights.

In The Netherlands there is a sign before bridges and railway lines that
says "bridge up?, motor off!". It might even be an offence there to idle
your engine to excess IIRC.

--
Simon Mason
Anlaby
East Yorkshire.
53°44'N 0°26'WT
http://www.simonmason.karoo.net

In article <[email hidden]>,

Simon Mason said:

I do the same, but you have to be careful with modern brakes that are servo
assisted since once the engine is off, you need a lot more foot pressure to
keep the car still.

Does you car not have a hand brake? How odd.

ian

In news:[email hidden],
Simon Mason <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

"Pyromancer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Arrghh - yes, that drives me up the wall! Whenever I know I'll be
stopped for more than a minute or so I switch the engine off (and if
the jam is on a slope, leave it off and roll slowly down using the
footbrake), but everyone else just seems to sit there, idling away,
engines turning over at 900-ish RPM, burning fuel to no purpose and
pumping out huge quantities of exhaust.

I do the same, but you have to be careful with modern brakes that
are servo assisted since once the engine is off, you need a lot more
foot pressure to keep the car still. Also, if you leave your ignition
on you will dazzle rear traffic with the high intensity brake lights.

Alternatively, you can use the handbrake, since then you can actually relax
while waiting, merely keeping half an eye out for when the traffic stops
coming in the other direction as an indication of when to start looking at
the lights. And the car I drive lights the brake lights even with the
ignition off.

A

Simon Mason said:

I do the same, but you have to be careful with modern brakes that are servo
assisted since once the engine is off, you need a lot more foot pressure to
keep the car still. Also, if you leave your ignition on you will dazzle rear
traffic with the high intensity brake lights.

Perhaps you need to get your handbrake fixed?

--
Mark.

Mark Tranchant said:

Simon Mason said:

I do the same, but you have to be careful with modern brakes that are servo
assisted since once the engine is off, you need a lot more foot pressure to
keep the car still. Also, if you leave your ignition on you will dazzle rear
traffic with the high intensity brake lights.

Perhaps you need to get your handbrake fixed?

Perhaps he's got a Mercedes.
--
Michael MacClancy
Random putdown - "A modest little person, with much to be modest about."-
Winston Churchill
www.macclancy.demon.co.uk
www.macclancy.co.uk

"Michael MacClancy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mark Tranchant said:

Simon Mason said:

I do the same, but you have to be careful with modern brakes that are

servo

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

assisted since once the engine is off, you need a lot more foot

pressure to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

keep the car still. Also, if you leave your ignition on you will dazzle

rear

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

traffic with the high intensity brake lights.

Perhaps you need to get your handbrake fixed?

I actually do use my handbrake and I press the button in as well, which is
beyond the capabilities of most people it seems, judging by the rasping
sound in car parks. I was responding to Pyromancer who said :

"Whenever I know I'll be
stopped for more than a minute or so I switch the engine off (and if the
jam is on a slope, leave it off and roll slowly down using the
footbrake"

IIRC it is illegal to coast with your engine off as it is deemed as not
being in proper control of your car.
--
Simon Mason
Anlaby
East Yorkshire.
53°44'N 0°26'WT
http://www.simonmason.karoo.net

"Nick Kew" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Only when the
middle classes start to think about what they're doing (as opposed to
moan about what everyone else is doing) will we cease to be marginalised.

--
Nick Kew

Nick's manifesto: http://www.htmlhelp.com/~nick/

Truck drivers are not the middle classes. The trucks they drive, which are
becoming increasingly expensive to operate, are the arteries of the
economy. The costs of the additional truck drivers required by the Working
Time Directive and increased fuel costs are simply passed on to us all -
whether you buy your potatoes at Lidl or Sainsbury.

We may hate trucks and wish more goods were sent by rail. However, they are
a vital element of our society. I believe that the fuel should be cheaper
for trucks and more expensive for cars. The majority of Europe agrees with
this and discounts diesel relative to petrol. However in sad little Britain,
we have it the other way round.

Gavin

Simon Mason said:

"Pyromancer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Arrghh - yes, that drives me up the wall! Whenever I know I'll be
stopped for more than a minute or so I switch the engine off (and if the
jam is on a slope, leave it off and roll slowly down using the
footbrake), but everyone else just seems to sit there, idling away,
engines turning over at 900-ish RPM, burning fuel to no purpose and
pumping out huge quantities of exhaust.

I do the same, but you have to be careful with modern brakes that are servo
assisted since once the engine is off, you need a lot more foot pressure to
keep the car still. Also, if you leave your ignition on you will dazzle rear
traffic with the high intensity brake lights.

The last two cars I've owned have brake lights that come one whether the
ignition is on or off. This is particularly confusing on the new Micra,
which has keyless ignition and requires you to have your foot on the
brake in order to release the steering lock. People wonder why you're
braking without even having the engine running!

gavin said:

Truck drivers are not the middle classes. The trucks they drive, which are
becoming increasingly expensive to operate, are the arteries of the
economy. The costs of the additional truck drivers required by the Working
Time Directive and increased fuel costs are simply passed on to us all -
whether you buy your potatoes at Lidl or Sainsbury.

Among the other fruits in the supermarket near my office are apples
from the USA and pears from New Zealand. Perhaps the additional
transport costs could be reduced by sourcing these items somewhere
/closer/?

-dan

--
"please make sure that the person is your friend before you confirm"

Simon Mason said:

"Pyromancer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Arrghh - yes, that drives me up the wall! Whenever I know I'll be
stopped for more than a minute or so I switch the engine off (and if the
jam is on a slope, leave it off and roll slowly down using the
footbrake), but everyone else just seems to sit there, idling away,
engines turning over at 900-ish RPM, burning fuel to no purpose and
pumping out huge quantities of exhaust.

I do the same, but you have to be careful with modern brakes that are servo
assisted since once the engine is off, you need a lot more foot pressure to
keep the car still. Also, if you leave your ignition on you will dazzle rear
traffic with the high intensity brake lights.

In The Netherlands there is a sign before bridges and railway lines that
says "bridge up?, motor off!". It might even be an offence there to idle
your engine to excess IIRC.

I think it is in the UK as well:

From the CCN:

Legislation introduced on 2nd February 1998 made it an
offence to cause unnecessary emissions by leaving a
vehicle's engine running unnecessarily whilst stationary.
This extended an existing offence of causing
unnecessary noise by the same means. Enforcement is
predominantly by the police and the offence carries a
maximum fine on conviction of £1,000.
In addition, regulations in December 1997 enabled
seven local authorities – Birmingham, Bristol,
Canterbury, Glasgow, Middlesbrough, Swansea and
Westminster – to issue fixed penalty notices in relation
to any vehicle with an engine running unnecessarily
whilst stationary. The fixed penalty is £20. It is proposed
that these powers by extended more widely in England
and Wales.

Apparently Scotland's ahead of the game:

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=376682004

Never heard of anyone getting done, though.