New Year Resolution

"Doug Freese" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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"Ignoramus21190" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Doug Freese said:

You have an uiphill battle when you converse with someone that thinks
Pringles are complex carbs. Since his definition is so bizarre no
wonder he considers himself LC.

Doug, my friend, if you think that pringles (potato chips) are not
complex carbs, you need serious re-education.

Igor, the potato within is a complex carb but the entire chip is
reprocessed [censored] food and right up there with candy. The product, notice

man, i can't believe i'm chiming in on this but i believe this is what he's
been saying all along. he has not been advocating eating pringles. he uses
the term "complex carb" as a pejorative and he advocates not eating pringles
for that reason. it shouldnt offend us that he doesnt want to eat pringles
for the "right" reasons but we should be happy he doesnt want to eat
pringles...

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the word product, is NOT a complex carb, it's a mixture of spuds,
monoglycerides, salt, vegetable, dextrose, etc - potato dust, fried or
baked in oil and one of those foods that we never eat. It has never,
ever, by anyone other than you labeled a carb much less a complex carb. A
Lorna Doone cookie has flour as it's first ingredient, does that make it a
complex carb. A carrot cake has carrots as a base, it it a vegetable? A
product that is created/mixed/combined is not a carb, fat or protein it's
the isolated ingredients within that get labeled. Why praytell do you
think they list the fats, carbs and protien on every label? It's so the
consumer can make up his mind how much of each he wants to eat.

Please find a book on basic nutrition.

-DF

Runner? said:

"Doug Freese" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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"Ignoramus21190" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 20:26:49 GMT, Doug Freese <[email hidden]> wrote:
> You have an uiphill battle when you converse with someone that thinks
> Pringles are complex carbs. Since his definition is so bizarre no
> wonder he considers himself LC.

Doug, my friend, if you think that pringles (potato chips) are not
complex carbs, you need serious re-education.

Igor, the potato within is a complex carb but the entire chip is
reprocessed [censored] food and right up there with candy. The product, notice

man, i can't believe i'm chiming in on this but i believe this is what he's
been saying all along. he has not been advocating eating pringles. he uses
the term "complex carb" as a pejorative and he advocates not eating pringles
for that reason. it shouldnt offend us that he doesnt want to eat pringles
for the "right" reasons but we should be happy he doesnt want to eat
pringles...

I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) he's been saying
there's no differnce between refined carbs and
complex carbs found in whole foods. But the whole
issue of carbs in the diet _does_ relate mainly to
the processed [censored] that makes one fat and provides
no basic nutrition. There's a difference between
eating broccoli and donuts as an energy source...

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the word product, is NOT a complex carb, it's a mixture of spuds,
monoglycerides, salt, vegetable, dextrose, etc - potato dust, fried or
baked in oil and one of those foods that we never eat. It has never,
ever, by anyone other than you labeled a carb much less a complex carb. A
Lorna Doone cookie has flour as it's first ingredient, does that make it a
complex carb. A carrot cake has carrots as a base, it it a vegetable? A
product that is created/mixed/combined is not a carb, fat or protein it's
the isolated ingredients within that get labeled. Why praytell do you
think they list the fats, carbs and protien on every label? It's so the
consumer can make up his mind how much of each he wants to eat.

Please find a book on basic nutrition.

-DF

Ignoramus21190 said:

Tom Phillips said:

Fruits are mostly water, carbs, but also contain good
amounts of fiber, proteins, and fats and are rich sources
of antioxidants and other nutrients. If you think processed
manufactured substitutes are equal in their physiological
effects you are wrong and view things one dimensionally,
IMO.

No. You misunderstand, so I will try to repeat again. Maybe I will be
redundant, but I want to be clear.

There are (among others) two different distinctions in food, simple
versus complex carbs, and also refined vs unrefined food.

Please do not confuse these two dimensions. There are foods that are

1) refined and contain simple carbs (candy)
2) unrefined and contain simple carbs (apple)
3) refined and contain complex carbs (pringles)
4) unrefined and contain complex carbs (potato)

Not all foods that contain complex carbs are equally
valuable. (however you define their value). But all complex carbs are
starches. A banana, a potato chip, a piece of white bread, a piece of
whole wheat bread, or oatmeal all contain complex carbs.

I'm not confusing the two. I'm saying you can't
separate the value and effects of the carbs from
the type of food it is. But this is typically what
popular diets and food labels do, is lump all
carbs into oversimplified categories.

So it appears you understand this and I understand
what you're saying. I simply state carbs from candy
are not equal to carbs from an apple 😉

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There's a big differnce between refined sugars/carbs
and fruits. You could live and run all year on nothing but
fruit as a source of energy and water. Try that with candy
bars (simple sugars) and you'll only become _ hypoglycemic_.

Some people could also become hyperglycemic, and some luckier ones
will have stable blood sugar.

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> Fruits are not merely sugar, they contain other healthy
> componants refined sugars do not. I believe tomatoes (a fruit) are
> complex carbs.

Check out http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-001-02s022i.html, that is
not the case,all their digestible carbs are sugars. That said, I love
tomatoes and eat them daily.

If you think eating a tomatoe is the same as
eating sugar you're mistaken.

It is not the same, that's why I eat tomatoes and do not eat sugar or
bread.

I do eat whole grains, whether bread or cereal.
Whole wheat is one of the world's most perfect
foods.

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> You may want to split hairs and think of white
> refined starches like donuts as "complex," but
> they're merely empty calories and not nearly
> as complex as whole grains.

They are just as complex. Again, do not confuse complex and refined.

Whether carbs are refined or not is the whole issue.

My point was to clear up misunderstanding of what is a "complex"
carb. Ie, someone said that pringles were not complex carbs, which is
false.

I think I agree with what Doug said in his assessment
of pringles. Refined products take a few isolated
ingredients out of a whole food and thus is no longer
really a "food." Refined carbs are like amputating a
leg and then still calling that leg the "human body."

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I used to believe that complex carbs were better, etc, until I read a
little more about that. The end result is same, sugar in blood that
goes to various organs as source of energy and production of fat etc.

The end result is you miss essential food components
that provide for long term health and energy needs.
Nutrition and energy is more than blood glucose.

I do not disagree with you, but I think that I can do fine with very
little fruits, as long as I eat vegetables.

I'm not telling you what to eat 🙂 Tomatoes BTW are a fruit.

Ignoramus21190 wrote:
You can compare complex carbs

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with simple, if you wish, or refined with unrefined, if you wish, but
not refined vs. complex.

I can and I am 🙂

"Runner?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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man, i can't believe i'm chiming in on this but i believe this is
what he's been saying all along. he has not been advocating eating
pringles. he uses the term "complex carb" as a pejorative and he
advocates not eating pringles

Of course he is using it in the negative. Remember he was citing the
NIH definition of a complex carb and stating that pringles fall within
that definition. That's like saying H2S04 is an element because it has
hydrogen.

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for that reason. it shouldnt offend us that he doesnt want to eat
pringles for the "right" reasons but we should be happy he doesnt want
to eat pringles...

I'm in total agreement that it is junk food but he is labeling it as a
complex carb and dragging complex carbs in the toilet. Complex carbs are
very healthy while simple carbs are not. That's like saying all fats
are bad because some are hydrogenated

-DF

"Doug Freese" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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"Runner?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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man, i can't believe i'm chiming in on this but i believe this is what
he's been saying all along. he has not been advocating eating pringles.
he uses the term "complex carb" as a pejorative and he advocates not
eating pringles

Of course he is using it in the negative. Remember he was citing the NIH
definition of a complex carb and stating that pringles fall within that
definition. That's like saying H2S04 is an element because it has
hydrogen.

Quoted message said:

for that reason. it shouldnt offend us that he doesnt want to eat
pringles for the "right" reasons but we should be happy he doesnt want to
eat pringles...

I'm in total agreement that it is junk food but he is labeling it as a
complex carb and dragging complex carbs in the toilet. Complex carbs are
very healthy while simple carbs are not. That's like saying all fats are
bad because some are hydrogenated

right. i agree. after all that i would say i eat lots of complex carbs but
only if they're accompanied by a decent amount fiber...so i dont eat lots of
potatoes or pasta. i havent had a pringles since i can't remember when and i
dont let my kids eat that [censored] either. they will be hopeless drug addicts or
at least soda-crazed fiends as soon as they are out of my control. i am now
off to the kitchen for my breakfast of Steel Cut Oats, (nothing 'Quick"
about them), banana, soy milk and crossword puzzle. lots of
fiber...especially in that crossword puzzle.

Quoted message said:

-DF

"Ignoramus21190" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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My point was to clear up misunderstanding of what is a "complex"
carb. Ie, someone said that pringles were not complex carbs, which is
false.

It was me and a pringle is NOT a complex carb. It is a [censored] food that
has a bit of spuds in it and is not considered a CC by anyone but you.
Is a carrot cake a vegetable? You are taking the definition of a an
individual nutrient and applying it to a recipe to make a false point to
justify an alleged LC point that carbs are some evil incarnate. We
agree that Pringles are junk food but not CC - not even remotely close.

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I do not disagree with you, but I think that I can do fine with very
little fruits, as long as I eat vegetables.

So tell my why all the versions, new and old, of the food pyramid
include fruits and vegetables in the same sentence and close to the
base?

"Vegetable (3 to 5 servings) and Fruit (2 to 4 servings) Group: A diet
rich in fruits and vegetables is one of the best ways to keep yourself
healthy. If there's anything close to being "proved" in nutrition
research, it's that eating lots of fruits and vegetables reduces the
risk of heart disease, some types of cancer, and other chronic diseases.
"

You can choose not to eat fruit but you are depriving yourself of a
healthy wholesome food but I think we all concluded you are not
interested in health only how you look, i.e. weight. Superficial at
best but we all have god. I guess the fact that the nutrition world,
less the Atkinites, all tout fruits as healthy. Even the NIH which you
like to cite borrowing definitions( although you incorrectly use these
definitions) love fruit.

You do understand that thin does not mean you are healthy, right? You
also understand that endurance running on LC is not healthy? Any eating
regimen that does not support your body or severely limits you when
exercising, should send a message. See the light bulb, see the bulb
light up? Then again health is not your goal but looking thin.

Peruse Harvard School Public Health
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/pyramids.html and they don't
exactly like the goverment run USDA.

-DF

Runner? said:

"Doug Freese" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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"Runner?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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man, i can't believe i'm chiming in on this but i believe this is what
he's been saying all along. he has not been advocating eating pringles.
he uses the term "complex carb" as a pejorative and he advocates not
eating pringles

Of course he is using it in the negative. Remember he was citing the NIH
definition of a complex carb and stating that pringles fall within that
definition. That's like saying H2S04 is an element because it has
hydrogen.

Quoted message said:

for that reason. it shouldnt offend us that he doesnt want to eat
pringles for the "right" reasons but we should be happy he doesnt want to
eat pringles...

I'm in total agreement that it is junk food but he is labeling it as a
complex carb and dragging complex carbs in the toilet. Complex carbs are
very healthy while simple carbs are not. That's like saying all fats are
bad because some are hydrogenated

right. i agree. after all that i would say i eat lots of complex carbs but
only if they're accompanied by a decent amount fiber...so i dont eat lots of
potatoes or pasta.

There's that old fallacy again, guilt by association
This is exactly what igor is doing, labeling all carbs
"bad" and making no distinction between pringles and
fruit (good carbs v bad carbs.) Pasta that is from
_refined_ (bleached) white flour is a bad food choice.
But pasta that is made from whole grains or whole
brown rice is good. Potatoes are another favorite
whipping boy. But the fact is most people eat potatoes
minus the fiber and nutrient rich potato skin...

Ignoramus4718 said:

Tom Phillips said:

Pasta that is from
_refined_ (bleached) white flour is a bad food choice.

Bleaching is a relatively small part of the long chain of processing
of grain into pasta.

Bleached _flour_. Pasta made of durum wheat flour
is not bleached. Are you begging for the killfile?

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But pasta that is made from whole grains or whole
brown rice is good. Potatoes are another favorite
whipping boy. But the fact is most people eat potatoes
minus the fiber and nutrient rich potato skin...

Make sure to remove skin and green parts generously if the potato has
greenish spots.

I eat the whole damn thing. Only thing I remove
is the dirt.

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I have a lot of backbone, I lost weight and kept it off for almost 1.5

years, that's much better than a great majority of fat people can do.>

Then you're a P-U-N-K. Because REAL he-men keep the weight off for
good.
Punk

"Tom Phillips" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

There's that old fallacy again, guilt by association

This is exactly what igor is doing, labeling all carbs
"bad" and making no distinction between pringles and
fruit (good carbs v bad carbs.) Pasta that is from
_refined_ (bleached) white flour is a bad food choice.

I don't call it a bad choice but I will say there are better. I know
relative.

Quoted message said:

Potatoes are another favorite
whipping boy. But the fact is most people eat potatoes
minus the fiber and nutrient rich potato skin...

The potato gets "whipped" because they are seldom eaten without oodles
of goop on it. Cut them thin(with the skin on) and bake on cookie sheet
with some spices and eat them like a pringle. A very healthy carb, sans
any fat, or spray some olive oil on the sheet for a hint of flavor and
fat. I also take a baked potato and put a little low fat cottage cheese
on it - equally healthy. 'Tis the sour cream, butter, or being whipped
with whole mile and butter or transfat margarine that maligns poor Mr..
spud.

-DF

Doug Freese said:

"Tom Phillips" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

There's that old fallacy again, guilt by association

This is exactly what igor is doing, labeling all carbs
"bad" and making no distinction between pringles and
fruit (good carbs v bad carbs.) Pasta that is from
_refined_ (bleached) white flour is a bad food choice.

I don't call it a bad choice but I will say there are better. I know
relative.

It's carbs minus the nutrients nature put there...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Potatoes are another favorite
whipping boy. But the fact is most people eat potatoes
minus the fiber and nutrient rich potato skin...

The potato gets "whipped" because they are seldom eaten without oodles
of goop on it.

I happen to favor boiled w/various seasonings and olive oil.

Quoted message said:

Cut them thin(with the skin on) and bake on cookie sheet
with some spices and eat them like a pringle. A very healthy carb, sans
any fat, or spray some olive oil on the sheet for a hint of flavor and
fat. I also take a baked potato and put a little low fat cottage cheese
on it - equally healthy. 'Tis the sour cream, butter, or being whipped
with whole mile and butter or transfat margarine that maligns poor Mr..
spud.

O.K. -- sometimes I use a few (er, several) dollops
of sour cream 🙂

My grandmother (now deceased) used to show up
after work just to make me (a bachelor) a pan full
of raw fries. She always brightened up a sucky
work day but also always peeled the darn things
and no matter how much I protested she peeled
potatoes, carrots, and anything else she could get
her 19th century hands on.

Her favorite snack was plain donuts and coffee and
to her dying day simply could not tolerate fiber
since the white starch diet she ate for 80 years
permanantly destroyed her digestive system...