New Year Resolution

Ignoramus21190 said:

Tom Phillips said:

Quoted message said:

Consider, cows are vegetarians. So, just _where_
do cows get all that protein?

Cows can also digest cellulose, which we humans cannot. They are true
herbivores, like rabbits etc. They have enormous intestines and chew
their own cud.

i

I think my point was they aren't carnivores 🙂

Quoted message said:

Is that what you tell yourself over and over again, sitting in a dark
room while eating endless bags of pork rinds and bun-less burgers?

If he's sitting in a dark room, how do you know what he's doing?

Ignoramus21190 said:

Tom Phillips said:

Ignoramus21190 said:

Bread and pringles, both of which I mentioned, are "complex carbs"...

No. (unless it's whole grain bread...)

I only consider potatoes to be if the skin is
attached and in an unprocessed form.

You can consider anything you want, but complex carbs are starch, as
simple as that.

http://www.hoptechno.com/book6.htm

You probably should have checked more hits
during your search. Pringles are a refined
(as far as I know) food product and not complex.

Complex carbs are for the most part unprocessed
carbs. A donut is mostly carbs. But it ain't
compex carbs. Starch is only one component of a
complex carb; _fiber_ is another...

From http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002469.htm

Carbohydrates are classified as simple or complex. The classification
depends on the chemical structure of the particular food source and
reflects how quickly the sugar is
digested and absorbed. Simple carbohydrates have one (single) or two
(double) sugars while complex carbohydrates have three or more.

Examples of single sugars from foods include fructose (found in fruits)
and galactose (found in milk products). Double sugars include lactose
(found in dairy), maltose (found in
certain vegetables and in beer), and sucrose (table sugar). Honey is
also a double sugar, but unlike table sugar, contains a small amount of
vitamins and minerals. (NOTE: honey
should not be given to children under 1 year old.)

Complex carbohydrates, often referred to as "starchy" foods, include:

whole grain breads and cereals
starchy vegetables
legumes

Simple carbohydrates that contain vitamins and minerals occur naturally
in:

fruits
milk and milk products
vegetables

Simple carbohydrates are also found in processed and refined sugars such
as:

candy
table sugar
syrups (not including natural syrups such as maple)
regular carbonated beverages

Refined sugars provide calories, but lack vitamins, minerals, and fiber.
Such simple sugars are often called "empty calories" and can lead to
weight gain. Also, many refined
foods, such as white flour, sugar, and polished rice, lack B vitamins
and other important nutrients unless they are marked "enriched." It is
healthiest to obtain carbohydrates,
vitamins, and other nutrients in as natural a form as possible -- for
example, from fruit instead of table sugar.

Leafing through rec.running, I read a message from ignoramus21190
@NOSPAM.21190.invalid of 07 Jan 2005:

Quoted message said:

So, Phil, you are not constantly hungry? If so, I am happy for you.
great job, I saw your pictures, etc.

Not constantly. Due to the amount of running I do, when I am hungry I know
that I can feed that hunger without fear of gaining weight.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

As you know from replys to your posts on rec.running, most runners
will tell you that endurance sports and low-carbing are not
compatible. I happen to agree. You will not be able to run your best
while on such a diet. Of course you can finish a half marathon, and
maybe even a marathon, but it will never be at your best.

Which is fine with me. If I run some annual race 15 minutes faster, at
the cost of a major inconvenience that last a whole year, it seems
like a bad deal to me

What you call an inconvenience I call my love or obsession if you will.

Quoted message said:

-- especially since there is nothing really at stake in those races.

Again, you have a differerent mind set from most poeple reading this group.
When people read your posts they don't realize this. I feel that if I'm
going to put my heart and soul into training for 18 weeks, then there is a
*lot* at stake during the actual race. Sure, there's no money, nobody gives
a hoot in hell if I finish last or DNF. I'm not running for anyone except
myself. That's what makes it all the more important to me.

Phil M.

--
"What counts in battle is what you do once the pain sets in." -John Short,
South African coach.

Leafing through rec.running, I read a message from ignoramus21190
@NOSPAM.21190.invalid of 07 Jan 2005:

Quoted message said:

I understand.

Well that's no fun.

Phil M.

Leafing through rec.running, I read a message from ignoramus21190
@NOSPAM.21190.invalid of 07 Jan 2005:

Quoted message said:

I understand.

Well that's no fun.

Phil M.

Ignoramus21190 said:

Tom Phillips said:

Ignoramus21190 said:

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 08:43:25 -0700, Tom Phillips <[email hidden]> wrote:
> Ignoramus21190 wrote:
>> Bread and pringles, both of which I mentioned, are "complex carbs"...
>
> No. (unless it's whole grain bread...)
>
> I only consider potatoes to be if the skin is
> attached and in an unprocessed form.

You can consider anything you want, but complex carbs are starch, as
simple as that.

http://www.hoptechno.com/book6.htm

You probably should have checked more hits
during your search. Pringles are a refined
(as far as I know) food product and not complex.

Complex carbs are for the most part unprocessed
carbs. A donut is mostly carbs. But it ain't
compex carbs. Starch is only one component of a
complex carb; _fiber_ is another...

You are confusing the two separate dimensions, one simple vs. complex
carbs, and another refined vs. unrefined foods. They are not the
same.

No, I'm not. A donut has no fiber. White refined
flour has no fiber. It's the same.

Quoted message said:

A food item may be made of complex carbs and yet be a refined
product (pringles). Or, a food item may contain simple carbs, no
complex carbs, and yet be unrefined (apple).

I beg to differ, since the skin of apples,
potatoes, etc. does contain fiber...

Quoted message said:

Or, a food item may be
refined and contain simple carbs (candy). Or, a food item may be
"unrefined" and contain starch (boiled potato). There is plenty of
examples in all four combinations of refined vs. unrefined and simple
vs. complex.

A donut is a combination of starch (complex carb) and sugar (simple
carb). A bagel, at least ones without sugar, would be an example of a
complex carb product.

A whole grain bagel, maybe...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

From http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002469.htm

Thanks for a great link. It completely agrees with what I posted
earlier. Let's read on:

Quoted message said:

Carbohydrates are classified as simple or complex. The classification
depends on the chemical structure of the particular food source and
reflects how quickly the sugar is
digested and absorbed. Simple carbohydrates have one (single) or two
(double) sugars while complex carbohydrates have three or more.

Exactly. Starches, which are chains of sugar molecules, are therefore
complex carbs.

Quoted message said:

Examples of single sugars from foods include fructose (found in
fruits) and galactose (found in milk products). Double sugars
include lactose (found in dairy), maltose (found in certain
vegetables and in beer), and sucrose (table sugar). Honey is also a
double sugar, but unlike table sugar, contains a small amount of
vitamins and minerals. (NOTE: honey should not be given to children
under 1 year old.)

You can see that these examples of single sugars include both refined
(table sugar) and unrefined (fruits) foods.

Quoted message said:

Complex carbohydrates, often referred to as "starchy" foods, include:

whole grain breads and cereals
starchy vegetables
legumes

Yep. Pringles and white bread are also "starchy".

Quoted message said:

Simple carbohydrates that contain vitamins and minerals occur naturally
in:

fruits
milk and milk products
vegetables

Simple carbohydrates are also found in processed and refined sugars such
as:

candy
table sugar
syrups (not including natural syrups such as maple)
regular carbonated beverages

Just what I said.

Quoted message said:

Refined sugars provide calories, but lack vitamins, minerals, and
fiber. Such simple sugars are often called "empty calories" and can
lead to weight gain. Also, many refined foods, such as white flour,
sugar, and polished rice, lack B vitamins and other important
nutrients unless they are marked "enriched." It is healthiest to
obtain carbohydrates, vitamins, and other nutrients in as natural a
form as possible -- for example, from fruit instead of table sugar.

Hard to disagree with this.
--
Running Log: http://igor.chudov.com/weightloss/exercise.txt

Ignoramus21190 said:

I have a lot of backbone,

ROFL! Is that why you asked the weight group how to appear more
*rugged*? A man with a backbone would already *be* rugged, dipshit.
Martha
still laughing...

"Tom Phillips" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Hmmm...seems to me you took great personal offense
at my pointing out alcohol was not healthy.

Thanks for cutting to the chase. I had forgotten about this
already. You are a silly grudge-holder with an axe to grind.

cheers,
--
David (in Hamilton, ON)
www.allfalldown.org
www.absolutelyaccurate.com

Quoted message said:

I joined AARC (American Airlines Running Club). Hello to AARC
(Jeph
Abara et al)!

Jeph Abarra is still around! Here's a pic of him (the other guy is me)
from a recent race along the Trinity in FW:

http://www.fwrunco.com/testsite/photos/2004GobblerGallop/imagepages/image11.htm

--
Brian P. Baresch
Fort Worth, Texas, USA
Professional editing and proofreading

If you're going through hell, keep going. --Winston Churchill

"SwStudio" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Ignoramus21190" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message

Quoted message said:

I see. I tried that for one year around 1998 or so. For a year, I ate
no meat whatsoever. How long have you been not eating meat?

Fifteen years of eating nothing that had a face.

Still single? I know TMI. 😉

Quoted message said:

Well, I
introduced fish back into my diet a couple years ago.

You have an uiphill battle when you converse with someone that thinks
Pringles are complex carbs. Since his definition is so bizarre no
wonder he considers himself LC. The reality is, he really does eat
lots of carbs. He has taken such unscientific liberties with the
definitions he is convinced the world is flat.

-DF

"Tom Phillips" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I wonder what Doug eats with his beer?

Why Pringles of course. I need my "complex" carbs. 😉

On a slightly serious note. After my weekend long runs it depends on the
time we finish. I prefer breakfast food and that usually means pancakes
or French toast with a few eggs. If they offer a hungry man like meal
which is a combination of Pancakes, French Toast, eggs and a meat that
had a face, I jump on that.

This morning I had scrambled eggs on a bed of black beans and tortilla
chips with a dollop of sour cream and a splash of salsa cutely named
Mex Brex.

If it's lunch I look for a big bowl of hot soup like black bean, or
vegetarian chili, or an evil vegetable soup with a hunk of grain bread.

Damn all this talk if food and I'm off to the refrig for an early lunch.

You should see what I eat before, during and after one of my races.

-Doug

Brian,
You look really old for a black guy.

"FabulustRunner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Brian,
You look really old for a black guy.

that's the differencce between an accomplished troll like you and a wannabe
like me...i had something very similar to that typed but couldnt bring
myself to click post.

SwStudio said:

"Tom Phillips" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Hmmm...seems to me you took great personal offense
at my pointing out alcohol was not healthy.

Thanks for cutting to the chase. I had forgotten about this
already. You are a silly grudge-holder with an axe to grind.

Uh, hypocrisy has nothing to do with grudges.

I'm simply pointing out you also hold dear
common health fallacies and argue as if you
know what you're talking about when you don't.
I'm neither defending igor nor supporting you,
which is why I posted the medline info...

Ignoramus21190 said:

Tom Phillips said:

Ignoramus21190 said:

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 09:52:25 -0700, Tom Phillips <[email hidden]> wrote:
> Ignoramus21190 wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 08:43:25 -0700, Tom Phillips <[email hidden]> wrote:
>> > Ignoramus21190 wrote:
>> >> Bread and pringles, both of which I mentioned, are "complex carbs"...
>> >
>> > No. (unless it's whole grain bread...)
>> >
>> > I only consider potatoes to be if the skin is
>> > attached and in an unprocessed form.
>>
>> You can consider anything you want, but complex carbs are starch, as
>> simple as that.
>>
>> http://www.hoptechno.com/book6.htm
>
> You probably should have checked more hits
> during your search. Pringles are a refined
> (as far as I know) food product and not complex.
>
> Complex carbs are for the most part unprocessed
> carbs. A donut is mostly carbs. But it ain't
> compex carbs. Starch is only one component of a
> complex carb; _fiber_ is another...

You are confusing the two separate dimensions, one simple vs. complex
carbs, and another refined vs. unrefined foods. They are not the
same.

No, I'm not. A donut has no fiber. White refined
flour has no fiber. It's the same.

Tom, do me a favor and read again the definition of complex carbs that
you posted yourself:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Carbohydrates are classified as simple or complex. The
> classification depends on the chemical structure of the particular
> food source and reflects how quickly the sugar is digested and
> absorbed. Simple carbohydrates have one (single) or two (double)
> sugars while complex carbohydrates have three or more.

As you can see, this definition defines complex carbs as chains of
three or more sugars (polysaccharides).

This definition of complex carbs has no mention of fiber. Fiber is not
at all a requirement for being a "complex carb".

i

But I _like_ fiber 🙂 So compromise and eat
a whole grain donut. I think you're ignoring
the major health issue (empty calories.) The
probelm with all this media and product blitz
about carbs and low carb is it ignores most
food stuffs you buy are refined carbs, whereas
complex carbs are what one typically gets in
whole foods. Fruits are not merely sugar, they
contain other healthy componants refined sugars
do not. I believe tomatoes (a fruit) are complex
carbs.

You may want to split hairs and think of white
refined starches like donuts as "complex," but
they're merely empty calories and not nearly
as complex as whole grains. This is probably why
the medline article specifically listed "whole
grain breads and cereals" under complex and not
donuts...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

A food item may be made of complex carbs and yet be a refined
product (pringles). Or, a food item may contain simple carbs, no
complex carbs, and yet be unrefined (apple).

I beg to differ, since the skin of apples,
potatoes, etc. does contain fiber...

Quoted message said:

Or, a food item may be
refined and contain simple carbs (candy). Or, a food item may be
"unrefined" and contain starch (boiled potato). There is plenty of
examples in all four combinations of refined vs. unrefined and simple
vs. complex.

A donut is a combination of starch (complex carb) and sugar (simple
carb). A bagel, at least ones without sugar, would be an example of a
complex carb product.

A whole grain bagel, maybe...

Quoted message said:

> From http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002469.htm

Thanks for a great link. It completely agrees with what I posted
earlier. Let's read on:

> Carbohydrates are classified as simple or complex. The classification
> depends on the chemical structure of the particular food source and
> reflects how quickly the sugar is
> digested and absorbed. Simple carbohydrates have one (single) or two
> (double) sugars while complex carbohydrates have three or more.

Exactly. Starches, which are chains of sugar molecules, are therefore
complex carbs.

> Examples of single sugars from foods include fructose (found in
> fruits) and galactose (found in milk products). Double sugars
> include lactose (found in dairy), maltose (found in certain
> vegetables and in beer), and sucrose (table sugar). Honey is also a
> double sugar, but unlike table sugar, contains a small amount of
> vitamins and minerals. (NOTE: honey should not be given to children
> under 1 year old.)

You can see that these examples of single sugars include both refined
(table sugar) and unrefined (fruits) foods.

> Complex carbohydrates, often referred to as "starchy" foods, include:
>
> whole grain breads and cereals
> starchy vegetables
> legumes

Yep. Pringles and white bread are also "starchy".

> Simple carbohydrates that contain vitamins and minerals occur naturally
> in:
>
> fruits
> milk and milk products
> vegetables
>
> Simple carbohydrates are also found in processed and refined sugars such
> as:
>
> candy
> table sugar
> syrups (not including natural syrups such as maple)
> regular carbonated beverages

Just what I said.

> Refined sugars provide calories, but lack vitamins, minerals, and
> fiber. Such simple sugars are often called "empty calories" and can
> lead to weight gain. Also, many refined foods, such as white flour,
> sugar, and polished rice, lack B vitamins and other important
> nutrients unless they are marked "enriched." It is healthiest to
> obtain carbohydrates, vitamins, and other nutrients in as natural a
> form as possible -- for example, from fruit instead of table sugar.

Hard to disagree with this.

--
Running Log: http://igor.chudov.com/weightloss/exercise.txt

Doug Freese said:

"Tom Phillips" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I wonder what Doug eats with his beer?

Why Pringles of course. I need my "complex" carbs. 😉

On a slightly serious note. After my weekend long runs it depends on the
time we finish. I prefer breakfast food and that usually means pancakes
or French toast with a few eggs. If they offer a hungry man like meal
which is a combination of Pancakes, French Toast, eggs and a meat that
had a face, I jump on that.

This morning I had scrambled eggs on a bed of black beans and tortilla
chips with a dollop of sour cream and a splash of salsa cutely named
Mex Brex.

If it's lunch I look for a big bowl of hot soup like black bean, or
vegetarian chili, or an evil vegetable soup with a hunk of grain bread.

Damn all this talk if food and I'm off to the refrig for an early lunch.

You should see what I eat before, during and after one of my races.

uh, beans? likely a good thing you run
in the open air. 😉

Quoted message said:

that's the differencce between an accomplished troll like you and a wannabe
like me...i had something very similar to that typed but couldnt bring
myself to click post.

With practice, you can do it!

"Ignoramus21190" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 20:26:49 GMT, Doug Freese <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

You have an uiphill battle when you converse with someone that thinks
Pringles are complex carbs. Since his definition is so bizarre no
wonder he considers himself LC.

Doug, my friend, if you think that pringles (potato chips) are not
complex carbs, you need serious re-education.

Igor, the potato within is a complex carb but the entire chip is
reprocessed [censored] food and right up there with candy. The product, notice
the word product, is NOT a complex carb, it's a mixture of spuds,
monoglycerides, salt, vegetable, dextrose, etc - potato dust, fried or
baked in oil and one of those foods that we never eat. It has never,
ever, by anyone other than you labeled a carb much less a complex carb.
A Lorna Doone cookie has flour as it's first ingredient, does that make
it a complex carb. A carrot cake has carrots as a base, it it a
vegetable? A product that is created/mixed/combined is not a carb, fat
or protein it's the isolated ingredients within that get labeled. Why
praytell do you think they list the fats, carbs and protien on every
label? It's so the consumer can make up his mind how much of each he
wants to eat.

Please find a book on basic nutrition.

-DF

Ignoramus21190 said:

Tom Phillips said:

I think you're ignoring the major health issue (empty calories.)

I agree that it is an important issue.

Quoted message said:

The probelm with all this media and product blitz about carbs and
low carb is it ignores most food stuffs you buy are refined carbs,
whereas complex carbs are what one typically gets in whole
foods.

This is not true.

Fruits are, with very few exception (bananas and avocado), simple carbs.

Well it seems pointless to continue debating when you
don't seem to understand the differeces between refined
sugars/carbs and real food. There's a big difference
beyond simple conversions to energy in the body. Fruits
are not just "simple carbs." That's as much a fallacy as
studies which report alcohol helps prevent heart disease
(if you go back and read the recent alcohol thread.)
You could live on nothing but fruits; try doing that
with donuts and you'll soon be malnourished and likely
diabetic and fat.

Fruits are mostly water, carbs, but also contain good
amounts of fiber, proteins, and fats and are rich sources
of antioxidants and other nutrients. If you think processed
manufactured substitutes are equal in their physiological
effects you are wrong and view things one dimensionally,
IMO. There's a big differnce between refined sugars/carbs
and fruits. You could live and run all year on nothing but
fruit as a source of energy and water. Try that with candy
bars (simple sugars) and you'll only become _ hypoglycemic_.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Fruits are not merely sugar, they contain other healthy
componants refined sugars do not. I believe tomatoes (a fruit) are
complex carbs.

Check out http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-001-02s022i.html, that is
not the case,all their digestible carbs are sugars. That said, I love
tomatoes and eat them daily.

If you think eating a tomatoe is the same as
eating sugar you're mistaken.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You may want to split hairs and think of white
refined starches like donuts as "complex," but
they're merely empty calories and not nearly
as complex as whole grains.

They are just as complex. Again, do not confuse complex and refined.

Whether carbs are refined or not is the whole issue.

Quoted message said:

I used to believe that complex carbs were better, etc, until I read a
little more about that. The end result is same, sugar in blood that
goes to various organs as source of energy and production of fat etc.

The end result is you miss essential food components
that provide for long term health and energy needs.
Nutrition and energy is more than blood glucose.