S
S Curtiss
Guest
"Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>>>
>>>>> Try to figure out how to come up with something new to say or get
>>>>> lost. Everyone is fed up by now with your inane defense of mountain
>>>>> biking on hiking trails in the wilderness. Have you no shame?
>>>>
>>>> Actually, you have it backwords. Everyone is fed up with Vandy's
>>>> opinions, false claims, self-appointed status, and baseless claims of
>>>> credibility. You can see that if you took 10 minutes on google group
>>>> search "vandeman". There has not been ONE single outside source or
>>>> credited environmental scientist or researcher to post in support or in
>>>> reference. The shame you reference does not apply as I have done
>>>> nothing but point this out.
>>>
>>> Vandeman is the expert on the subject and others should be referencing
>>> him, not vice versa. After all, Vandeman is a hiker, not a slob mountain
>>> biker like you.
>> You saying Vandeman is the "expert" is hysterical. You have stated over
>> and over research and studies mean nothing to you so you have no basis to
>> make a claim of this nature. You can agree with his opinions but you
>> could no longer proclaim Vandeman the expert in a field of beans much
>> less any field of research or reference.
>
> Vandeman is the expert from the hiker's point of view. I have already told
> you that I do not give a good g.d. about the mountain biker's point of
> view.
And there is your breakdown, and his. No interest in balance, real
information or experience beyond your own narrow mind.
>
>>>> And you can also try to find ONE single post which I state support for
>>>> cycling in designated wilderness. You need to seperate the term
>>>> "wilderness" from your discussion as cycling is not allowed on
>>>> wilderness trails. But that is your (and his) shortcoming. The truth
>>>> hardly matters as long as you can attempt to force your opinion.
>>>
>>> Curtiss, I do not trust you on his issue. I KNOW you would like to bike
>>> in my sacred Wilderness on my sacred trails.
>>
>> No more than I want to ride my bike down a runway at JFK. My main
>> objective is consistency. I want areas to be designated in the same
>> manner all across the country. If it is "multi-use" in Virginia, then
>> land that meets the same criteria in Virginia should be designated the
>> same in all other states. Likewise for "wilderness". The standards that
>> designate "wilderness" must be consistent nationwide. This aids in
>> preservation and enforcement. It is Vandeman's "all bikes banned in all
>> non-paved areas" stance that is intolerable. Not only because it is
>> unrealistic, but also because the claims he makes in support of it have
>> no foundation in fact and his presentation as an "authority" has no
>> validity.
>
> As long as you do not even THINK about biking in wilderness ...
As long as the designation is consistant and applied the same everywhere.
>
>>>> Beyond any of that, I enjoy letting Vandy know whenever possible that
>>>> he has lost. Your support, btw, has increased his loss tenfold.
>>>
>>> Vandeman needs some support and I will give it to him. The reason I will
>>> do this is because I know mountain bikers and they are never up to any
>>> good. All true hikers HATE mountain bikers. Vandeman is as pure as the
>>> driven snow and you are not!
>>
>> Do I laugh now...?
>
> All I am getting from you is that you want to be able to bike on all
> trails with the possible exception of trails in designated Wilderness
> Areas. That is not good enough for me any more than it is for Vandeman.
> You seem to be totally lacking in an appreciation of nature and scenic
> areas. There are innumerable trails outside of wilderness which are not
> suited for cyclists. Cyclists ruin such areas for walkers. Funny that you
> cannot see this.
People ruin it for other people. Inconsiderate, loud, rude, sloppy people
ruin it. And inconsiderate, loud, rude, sloppy people can be hiking, riding
a horse, riding a bike... Funny how you paint a rosy picture of your group
and disregard the same faults you apply as a broad brush for off-road
cyclists.
>
>>> Bottom line, hikers are a bit like Saints. We want to connect to the
>>> earth. Many of us can only find God in the Wilderness. I have never met
>>> a hiker who did not at least have some redeeming human qualities. I sure
>>> as hell can't say the same for mountain bikers.
>>
>> Hikers are eating and breathing human beings. That is all. They are not
>> special or "saints". If you want to make a stance for preserving green
>> space, then I'm all over it. But do not lower yourself by proclaiming any
>> group of persons above another especially on the basis of an activity. It
>> is just plain silly.
>
> We all know how mountain bikers behave in the out of doors and it is not a
> pretty sight. Try to get some perspective and some philosophy if at all
> possible. Mental attitude is everything when it comes to a proper
> appreciation of natural and scenic areas. Only walkers have the right
> perspective. All others are wrongheaded and spawn of the Devil.
What an insipid and useless comment. Hikers are merely people. Everyone
chooses an activity or destination based on their own experience and past
choices. There is NOTHING saintly about it. If you want to make the activity
"special" to justify your opinion, then do so. But you can only do so for
your own being. You can not speak for any other hiker, cyclist or person and
their motives for doing anything.
>
>>> I urge Curtiss to abandon his mountain bike and to take up the way of
>>> the pilgrim and go hiking in the Wilderness. There he will find God and
>>> become a human being able to glory in his humanity - provided of course
>>> that he doesn't encounter any mountain bikers while on the trail.
>>
>> My humanity is quite intact. My experience in any wooded area, on a bike
>> or on foot, is my own and in no way reflects the personal experience of
>> anyone else.
>> Perhaps you need to be clipped into a pair of pedals and let loose on a
>> good downhill run to experience your humanity.
>
> You are into asininity and I am into Saintliness. Never the twain shall
> meet.
You are no more a saint than I am a Koala.
>
>> However, I do know that you telling me how to find my humanity is like Al
>> Gore telling me which Hummer to buy. You have no reference or insight
>> into my being that would allow you to recommend anything to me.
>
> You will not find your humanity in mountain biking on my sacred hiking
> trails. That much is known for sure.
For sure, you have no clue what I would find.
>
news:[email protected]...
>
>>>
>>>>> Try to figure out how to come up with something new to say or get
>>>>> lost. Everyone is fed up by now with your inane defense of mountain
>>>>> biking on hiking trails in the wilderness. Have you no shame?
>>>>
>>>> Actually, you have it backwords. Everyone is fed up with Vandy's
>>>> opinions, false claims, self-appointed status, and baseless claims of
>>>> credibility. You can see that if you took 10 minutes on google group
>>>> search "vandeman". There has not been ONE single outside source or
>>>> credited environmental scientist or researcher to post in support or in
>>>> reference. The shame you reference does not apply as I have done
>>>> nothing but point this out.
>>>
>>> Vandeman is the expert on the subject and others should be referencing
>>> him, not vice versa. After all, Vandeman is a hiker, not a slob mountain
>>> biker like you.
>> You saying Vandeman is the "expert" is hysterical. You have stated over
>> and over research and studies mean nothing to you so you have no basis to
>> make a claim of this nature. You can agree with his opinions but you
>> could no longer proclaim Vandeman the expert in a field of beans much
>> less any field of research or reference.
>
> Vandeman is the expert from the hiker's point of view. I have already told
> you that I do not give a good g.d. about the mountain biker's point of
> view.
And there is your breakdown, and his. No interest in balance, real
information or experience beyond your own narrow mind.
>
>>>> And you can also try to find ONE single post which I state support for
>>>> cycling in designated wilderness. You need to seperate the term
>>>> "wilderness" from your discussion as cycling is not allowed on
>>>> wilderness trails. But that is your (and his) shortcoming. The truth
>>>> hardly matters as long as you can attempt to force your opinion.
>>>
>>> Curtiss, I do not trust you on his issue. I KNOW you would like to bike
>>> in my sacred Wilderness on my sacred trails.
>>
>> No more than I want to ride my bike down a runway at JFK. My main
>> objective is consistency. I want areas to be designated in the same
>> manner all across the country. If it is "multi-use" in Virginia, then
>> land that meets the same criteria in Virginia should be designated the
>> same in all other states. Likewise for "wilderness". The standards that
>> designate "wilderness" must be consistent nationwide. This aids in
>> preservation and enforcement. It is Vandeman's "all bikes banned in all
>> non-paved areas" stance that is intolerable. Not only because it is
>> unrealistic, but also because the claims he makes in support of it have
>> no foundation in fact and his presentation as an "authority" has no
>> validity.
>
> As long as you do not even THINK about biking in wilderness ...
As long as the designation is consistant and applied the same everywhere.
>
>>>> Beyond any of that, I enjoy letting Vandy know whenever possible that
>>>> he has lost. Your support, btw, has increased his loss tenfold.
>>>
>>> Vandeman needs some support and I will give it to him. The reason I will
>>> do this is because I know mountain bikers and they are never up to any
>>> good. All true hikers HATE mountain bikers. Vandeman is as pure as the
>>> driven snow and you are not!
>>
>> Do I laugh now...?
>
> All I am getting from you is that you want to be able to bike on all
> trails with the possible exception of trails in designated Wilderness
> Areas. That is not good enough for me any more than it is for Vandeman.
> You seem to be totally lacking in an appreciation of nature and scenic
> areas. There are innumerable trails outside of wilderness which are not
> suited for cyclists. Cyclists ruin such areas for walkers. Funny that you
> cannot see this.
People ruin it for other people. Inconsiderate, loud, rude, sloppy people
ruin it. And inconsiderate, loud, rude, sloppy people can be hiking, riding
a horse, riding a bike... Funny how you paint a rosy picture of your group
and disregard the same faults you apply as a broad brush for off-road
cyclists.
>
>>> Bottom line, hikers are a bit like Saints. We want to connect to the
>>> earth. Many of us can only find God in the Wilderness. I have never met
>>> a hiker who did not at least have some redeeming human qualities. I sure
>>> as hell can't say the same for mountain bikers.
>>
>> Hikers are eating and breathing human beings. That is all. They are not
>> special or "saints". If you want to make a stance for preserving green
>> space, then I'm all over it. But do not lower yourself by proclaiming any
>> group of persons above another especially on the basis of an activity. It
>> is just plain silly.
>
> We all know how mountain bikers behave in the out of doors and it is not a
> pretty sight. Try to get some perspective and some philosophy if at all
> possible. Mental attitude is everything when it comes to a proper
> appreciation of natural and scenic areas. Only walkers have the right
> perspective. All others are wrongheaded and spawn of the Devil.
What an insipid and useless comment. Hikers are merely people. Everyone
chooses an activity or destination based on their own experience and past
choices. There is NOTHING saintly about it. If you want to make the activity
"special" to justify your opinion, then do so. But you can only do so for
your own being. You can not speak for any other hiker, cyclist or person and
their motives for doing anything.
>
>>> I urge Curtiss to abandon his mountain bike and to take up the way of
>>> the pilgrim and go hiking in the Wilderness. There he will find God and
>>> become a human being able to glory in his humanity - provided of course
>>> that he doesn't encounter any mountain bikers while on the trail.
>>
>> My humanity is quite intact. My experience in any wooded area, on a bike
>> or on foot, is my own and in no way reflects the personal experience of
>> anyone else.
>> Perhaps you need to be clipped into a pair of pedals and let loose on a
>> good downhill run to experience your humanity.
>
> You are into asininity and I am into Saintliness. Never the twain shall
> meet.
You are no more a saint than I am a Koala.
>
>> However, I do know that you telling me how to find my humanity is like Al
>> Gore telling me which Hummer to buy. You have no reference or insight
>> into my being that would allow you to recommend anything to me.
>
> You will not find your humanity in mountain biking on my sacred hiking
> trails. That much is known for sure.
For sure, you have no clue what I would find.
>
