Mountain Bikers SILENT about Environmental Destruction in Their Backyard!

[Mike Vandeman]

Why would someone blow FOREVER their chance to talk with the world
expert on the environmental impacts of mountain biking, by being rude?
NOW he wants to apologize?! Is there ANY group in the world stupider
or more abusive than mountain bikers?????

Mike


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Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 07:52:15 -0400
From: Josh <[email protected]>
To: "Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Abusive unsolicited email
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"Don't send me any more email. EVER. I added you to my idiot filter,
for obvious reasons. Too bad you didn't bother being civil."


I will take no offense by this, however many mountain bikers in the
area have been greatly disturbed by your writing. Many officers, and
social workers have taken extreme offense by the rude stereotype you
have created. I don't care if you listen me, however your thesis has
spread throughout the biking world through numerous North American and
Canadian mountain bike forums. Unless you start to apologize for these
stereotypes i feel that many more people may get hurt by your
incriminating words. I am sorry i came over so strongly, however by
reading your biased paper i got kinda riled up and apologize. I just
hope to break the stereotype you are trying to feed.


Thank you and have a nice day.


On 5/11/06, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote:
Don't send me any more email. EVER. I added you to my idiot filter,
for obvious reasons. Too bad you didn't bother being civil.


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From: Josh <[email protected]>
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bikes
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Sir,


I recently read your thesis on mountain bikes, and i cant say i agree
more with your many well thought out points of view. I mean, when you
ride a bike you don't get any exercise. Common, look at lance
Armstrong, anyone could with the tour De France nine times strait, i
guess no one else has tried hard enough...... I am a eagle scout, a
respective national honors student, and a avid mountain biker.
According to your thesis i plague the world with destruction. However
much to my amazement i find myself helping others, improving trails,
working at zoos to further animal vaccine research.....Guess i must be
a hypocrite because i mountain bike, what can i say. However your
points in your paper were extremely biased, had no citations for the
speakers and thus was plagiarism, and in addition had no references to
the vast accusatory points that you provided. I encourage you to
respond because i would really take enjoyment of laughing at your
pathetic attempts to justify your actions and accusations.


Have a fun time mountain Biking!!


A avid biker



I dare you to justify your thesis, i also dare you to read your own
********.


===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

[Mike Vandeman]

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wow you are a complete duche and if I ever see you I hope I'm having a
good day
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===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

[Mike Vandeman]

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Hello again,


My previous email was no where near as abusive as your website is to
any human being with a brain. Your online rants only prove that you
have some unjustifiable grudge against bikers and you use some
environmentalist shame reasoning to back it up. Then you decide rather
than answering some simple questions a fellow environmentalist may
have, you are going to ignore the issues, resort to name calling (yet
again), and block me. Why do you act so immaturely when confronted by
someone who disagrees with you. I am concerned that you are hurting
the environmentalist movement more than helping it by coming off as a
crazed nature loving radical. People need to be eased into a new,
environmentally conscious mind set, where as you just scare people
off.


Please answer my questions so maybe I can somewhat understand your
questionable actions,
Spot


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===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

[Mike Vandeman]

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You are ignorant and an idiot. You know absolutely nothing about mtn
biker's or our culture. You are very lucky U don't live near me as I
would kick your ass if I saw you in public.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

[Mike Vandeman]

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Where to begin. What you have written there is absolute ****. Before
you start "baging" mountain biking try doing yourself you *****.
Whether it be an easy cross country ride or a full DH run, u cant bag
it till you have tried it.
You say mountain bikers do considerable damage to trails but a study
done by IMBA proved that riding a trail does as much damage a a hiker
would.
You say mountain biking is an addiction and it is. But its no drug you
**** head. It is a sport, like football Car racing, Hiking, or ski
Diving, and in all these things peoples health is at risk, but the
enjoyment people get out is the main thing. Mountain bikers are not
all Bad asse's or stoners, they are people with more guts than you.
Mountain bikers respect hikers old or young and many rider
riders have an interest in the enviroment. Mountain bikers dont ride
their bikes to be cool or look tough, they do it because they love to
ride. And brands like Velociraptor mean nothing now days.
Proffesional mountain bikers are extremely good role models for
children. They are hard working and dedicated to their sport as much
as any other sports person. They give back to the community building
trails and teaching younger riders.
These illegal trail builders and riders are few dont dont represent
the entire community, but if land owners continue to close their land
more of this may happen, agreements have to be met.
The thing that blows me away that you could even think of saying
"Mountain bikers are lazy" is utter ****. Proffesional riders train
for hours on end, people ride all day, all are fit people. They spend
their time building and maintaining trails. Bikes these days arent
just to get from A to B they are a life.
And last, many mountain bikers do ride to experience nature while
having fun whilst doing it, riding their bike. You say that riders
ride too fast to "appreciate" it, well in your experiance you must off
been riding non stop brakeless at high speed to miss it. Mountain
bikers constantly enjoy their surroundings, sometimes that is the
reason they are there, ride to the top off a mountain enjoy the
landscape and admire the view.
In closing all that you have said is utter ****. Maybe if you ride
your bike you may find another way to enjoys the surrounding wildlife,
or maybe you are to old, fat and LAZY. I am only 15 years of age, and
i look foward to a life time of "ruining" the enviroment with my
belovid bike.


Free Rider


_________________________________________________________________
realestate.com.au: the biggest address in property
http://ninemsn.realestate.com.au

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

[Mike Vandeman]

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Where to begin. What you have written there is absolute ****. Before
you start "baging" mountain biking try doing yourself you *****.
Whether it be an easy cross country ride or a full DH run, u cant bag
it till you have tried it.
You say mountain bikers do considerable damage to trails but a study
done by IMBA proved that riding a trail does as much damage a a hiker
would.
You say mountain biking is an addiction and it is. But its no drug you
**** head. It is a sport, like football Car racing, Hiking, or ski
Diving, and in all these things peoples health is at risk, but the
enjoyment people get out is the main thing. Mountain bikers are not
all Bad asse's or stoners, they are people with more guts than you.
Mountain bikers respect hikers old or young and many rider
riders have an interest in the enviroment. Mountain bikers dont ride
their bikes to be cool or look tough, they do it because they love to
ride. And brands like Velociraptor mean nothing now days.
Proffesional mountain bikers are extremely good role models for
children. They are hard working and dedicated to their sport as much
as any other sports person. They give back to the community building
trails and teaching younger riders.
These illegal trail builders and riders are few dont dont represent
the entire community, but if land owners continue to close their land
more of this may happen, agreements have to be met.
The thing that blows me away that you could even think of saying
"Mountain bikers are lazy" is utter ****. Proffesional riders train
for hours on end, people ride all day, all are fit people. They spend
their time building and maintaining trails. Bikes these days arent
just to get from A to B they are a life.
And last, many mountain bikers do ride to experience nature while
having fun whilst doing it, riding their bike. You say that riders
ride too fast to "appreciate" it, well in your experiance you must off
been riding non stop brakeless at high speed to miss it. Mountain
bikers constantly enjoy their surroundings, sometimes that is the
reason they are there, ride to the top off a mountain enjoy the
landscape and admire the view.
In closing all that you have said is utter ****. Maybe if you ride
your bike you may find another way to enjoys the surrounding wildlife,
or maybe you are to old, fat and LAZY. I am only 15 years of age, and
i look foward to a life time of "ruining" the enviroment with my
belovid bike.

Free Rider

_________________________________________________________________
realestate.com.au: the biggest address in property
http://ninemsn.realestate.com.au

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

[Mike Vandeman]

On Sat, 13 May 2006 02:08:28 +1000, davebee
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"That is a lie. It's interesting that you provide not one shred of
>evidence to support it. I'm sure you just heard that somewhere and
>repeated it. Making assertions that you don't KNOW to be fact is
>called "lying". See my point?"
>
>please can you provide evidence that the previous chap was "lying?"

It was in the text that you conveniently removed.

you
>have provided not a single shred of evidence that he is. you have simply
>blandly stated that he is lying.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

[Mike Vandeman]

On Sat, 13 May 2006 02:16:40 +1000, davebee
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"That is a lie. It's interesting that you provide not one shred of
>evidence to support it. I'm sure you just heard that somewhere and
>repeated it. Making assertions that you don't KNOW to be fact is
>called "lying". See my point?"
>
>please can you provide evidence that the previous chap was "lying?" you
>have provided not a single shred of evidence that he is. you have simply
>blandly stated that he is lying.
>
>Lets assume for your argument that he is INCORRECT (I am not sayiing he
>is, purely for arguments sake) surely if he believes he is correct then
>he is just misinformed not a liar, since as you state you have to be
>aware of the fact you are lying to actually be lying. But you cannot
>possibly know whether he knows that he is wrong (assuming of course he
>IS wrong) or whether he is simply misinformed. So therefore you have
>made an assertation that you cannot prove to be true. But then you KNOW
>all of the above because you are a seasoned debater (well in my opinion
>more of a soapbox king but that is a different issue) you know all of
>the above that I have just stated. So therefore by your own argument
>you are a liar. Because I am gentleman, I will settle for the agreement
>that you are simply misinformed.
>
>So we now take this to conclusion and we have two potential
>hypotheses.
>Case 1. that you are a liar. - In this case, what else have you lied
>about? Your credibility is shot and nobody will believe a word you
>say.
>
>Case 2. You are simply misinformed. If you are so misinformed about
>something as simple as this, what else are you misinformed about?
>People lose confidence in you, your credibilty vanishes and nobody will
>believe a word you say.
>
>now obviously, because I have STATED my assumptions I cannot possibly
>be accused of being a liar. Therefore I could be misinformed but I
>worked all the above out for myself without any help from anyone else.
>I could of course be wrong and I would welcome any proof that I am so.
>
>
>Sadly I cannot go mountainbiking this weekend as I have severe chest
>pains

The wildlife are rejoicing.

and wont be biking anywhere for a while. Tis good to be back!!
>
>And finally you must really hate people like me because one of my
>favourite leisure activities is mountainbiking (I have several you see
>and I would include walking/hiking in there) and for a living I design
>roads (well I am a civil engineer in a highways division) - a very
>credible and professional career I would also add.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

[Mike Vandeman]

On Fri, 12 May 2006 13:53:40 -0500, "di" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"davebee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> Bloody Nora. The last time I looked at this forum about a year ago Mr
>> Vandeman was on his soapbox shouting some bollocks about cyclists. I
>> come back and he is still shouting.
>>
>>
>> --
>> davebee
>>
>
>He's shouting because that's all he can do, he doesn't have the power or
>support to do anything else. He's a "nothing" living in a world of make
>believe, hoping someone will pay attention to him, but around here we all
>treat him like a clown only good for entertainment purposes, and he
>accommodates us.

If that were true, you guys wouldn't be trying so hard to shut me up.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

[Mike Vandeman]

On Sat, 13 May 2006 07:02:01 +1000, davebee
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>[snip]
>
>one other question for you mike and this is not a rant or a gripe or a
>criticism. I will leave it open so that I am not putting words in your
>mouth or applying criticsim)
>
>How do you want to be remembered when you die?

I will be remembered as one of very few people wth the guts to tell
the truth about mountain biking and other envronmentally destructive
activities.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

[Marty]

"Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Can't you defend your indefensible, destructive sport any other way?
>
> Mike
>

Going at it with a 15 yr old.

Impressive.

Cross posting his emails.

Truly impressive.

Marty

 

[Gary S.]

On Sun, 14 May 2006 05:37:41 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Why would someone blow FOREVER their chance to talk with the world
>expert on the environmental impacts of mountain biking, by being rude?
>NOW he wants to apologize?! Is there ANY group in the world stupider
>or more abusive than mountain bikers?????
>
>Mike
>
You all by yourself are stupider and more abusive than any group in
the world.

However, you must be in very good physical condition, being able to
carry around that ego of yours.

Or did you mean that you are the world expert on being rude?

 

[Gary S.]

On Sun, 14 May 2006 08:59:48 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]>
wrote:

>I will be remembered as one of very few people wth the guts to tell
>the truth about mountain biking and other envronmentally destructive
>activities.

So, your image is more important than the environment.

If you were really concerned about your image with others, you would
treat other people much better. This is all about your self image.

 

[S Curtiss]

So you post a bunch of inflammatory opinions on a foundation of bias on a
website and a few hotheads or children send you a few emails.

How does this A: support the title you posted in the thread? (Mountain
Bikers SILENT about Environmental Destruction in Their Backyard!) B: Prove
ANYTHING about the major majority of people who are following the IMBA
guidelines of being respectful on the trail?

 

[S Curtiss]

So you post a bunch of inflammatory opinions on a foundation of bias on a
website and a few hotheads or children send you a few emails.

How does this A: support the title you posted in the thread? (Mountain
Bikers SILENT about Environmental Destruction in Their Backyard!) B: Prove
ANYTHING about the major majority of people who are following the IMBA
guidelines of being respectful on the trail?

 

[S Curtiss]

So you post a bunch of inflammatory opinions on a foundation of bias on a
website and a few hotheads or children send you a few emails.

How does this A: support the title you posted in the thread? (Mountain
Bikers SILENT about Environmental Destruction in Their Backyard!) B: Prove
ANYTHING about the major majority of people who are following the IMBA
guidelines of being respectful on the trail?

 

[S Curtiss]

So you post a bunch of inflammatory opinions on a foundation of bias on a
website and a few hotheads or children send you a few emails.

How does this A: support the title you posted in the thread? (Mountain
Bikers SILENT about Environmental Destruction in Their Backyard!) B: Prove
ANYTHING about the major majority of people who are following the IMBA
guidelines of being respectful on the trail?

 

[S Curtiss]

So you post a bunch of inflammatory opinions on a foundation of bias on a
website and a few hotheads or children send you a few emails.

How does this A: support the title you posted in the thread? (Mountain
Bikers SILENT about Environmental Destruction in Their Backyard!) B: Prove
ANYTHING about the major majority of people who are following the IMBA
guidelines of being respectful on the trail?

 

[S Curtiss]

So you post a bunch of inflammatory opinions on a foundation of bias on a
website and a few hotheads or children send you a few emails.

How does this A: support the title you posted in the thread? (Mountain
Bikers SILENT about Environmental Destruction in Their Backyard!) B: Prove
ANYTHING about the major majority of people who are following the IMBA
guidelines of being respectful on the trail?

 

[S Curtiss]

"Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 12 May 2006 13:32:00 -0400, "S Curtiss" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>>>
>>>> You constantly on about how us mountain bikers cause so much errosion.
>>>> Here's a photo YOU posted:
>>>> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/006_4-725668.21.jpg Now, you have a pHD
>>>> in mathematics, so you should be able to look at this and tell me what
>>>> percent of that area is trail. Pretty insignificat huh? You're
>>>> constant
>>>> complaining about how we cause so much "errosion", but look at the
>>>> percent of trails compared to the area. Sure, a trail might errode,
>>>> but
>>>> the 99% of the park around it is just fine.
>>>
>>> The fact is that riding there is ILLEGAL. Why do you ignore the
>>> abusive, unlawful behaviour of your fellow mountain bikers????? I
>>> don't think you can answer that honestly.
>>Riding where is illegal...?
>
> On the trail depicted in that photo. Can't even you READ?

Looked at the photo. Nothing there says illegal. No sign says illegal. How
do read something that is not there? Is this how you support your
OPINIONS...? With information that isn't there? That could be practically
any trail in the world. Hell, it looks a lot like the back area at Snowshoe
Resort in West Virginia. It could even be the open field beyond Green Hill
Park (soccer and baseball) in Salem, VA. Both, by the way, are perfectly
legal for off-road cycling.
>
> Why do you ignore the abusive, (trash, fires,
>>trampling) and unlawful behavior of your fellow hikers and imply that
>>cycling is the cause of all? I don't think you can answer that honestly.
>>To
>>do so would require you to admit poor behavior by hikers has been altering
>>forest and habitat areas for years before mountain biking ever came along.
>>And if you admit that, you have to admit your constant focus on the
>>removal
>>of bicycles is unfounded because cycling is NOT the destructive force you
>>claim it to be.
>>>
>>>> What about the hikers themselves. They make alot of trails in the
>>>> first
>>>> place, and then widen them for going around mud, or dust bins.
>>>
>>> But I don't support trail construction. YOU do. WHY? I don't think you
>>> can answer that honestly.
>>How do you venture into the woods, MV, if you do not utilize the trails?
>>Trampling on virgin vegetation? Displacing animals from their undisturbed
>>homes?