Kryptonite Locks safe?

On 2004-06-22, Thomas Schmidt penned:

Quoted message said:

Hi,

a friend told me that all these bicycle locks that have
these round or tubular keys are not safe because they were
easy to open with so-called "picktools". he also told me
that there are newer locks with a "ace-2" lock or
something which are safer.

The question is: does all that only regard cheap noname-
locks or even brand-name locks like kryptonite? I am
asking because I have 3 kryptonite locks in use, one
EvoLite (4 years old), one New York Chain (2 years old)
and a quite old kryptonite I don't know the exact name,
should be about 10 years old.

Do at least the newer ones feature this "ace-2" lock or do
I have to replace them all?

My advice:

If a thief wants your bike, no lock will stop them. I've had
friends return to their cars only to find that part of the
rack has been sawed off to remove the bike.

Any lock can be picked or frozen/shattered. If you really,
really don't want your bike stolen, don't leave it
unattended.

And for god's sake, make sure you have renter's or
homeowner's insurance! It covers the loss of bikes and such.

--
monique

Quoted message said:

Any lock can be picked or frozen/shattered. If you really,
really don't want your bike stolen, don't leave it
unattended.

Sorry, but this is useless blah blah. There is a difference
if a lock has easy-to-pick cylinders or difficult-to-pick
cylinders like the ace-2, and that is what I want to know.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Sorry, but this is useless blah blah.

If good advice is useless "blah, blah, blah" then maybe
you need to ask about this in alt.locksmithing instead.
(Yes, it exists, as does alt.life.locksmithing)

Steve "full of blah, blah, blah..."

What Monique said was NOT good advice, it was useless
because she did not answer my question and just wrote
something general instead.

Thomas Schmidt said:

Sorry, but this is useless blah blah. There is a
difference if a lock has easy-to-pick cylinders or difficult-to-
pick cylinders like the ace-2, and that is what I want
to know.

Not really. No thief is going to take the time to pick a
lock. A squirt of freon, a tap with a hammer, and he's got
your bike.

A lock will deter a casual thief, but a casual thief ain't
gonna know how to pick a lock.

Lock picking is an art, learned over time. Most bike thieves
aren't too bright and don't want to learn - that's why they
steal instead of working or going to school.

Where I went to school, we had at least 2 organized gangs
that stole bikes for a living. No one ever had a lock
picked. Locks were forced, broken, cut, or - my fave -
parking meter heads loosened so that the thieves could slide
the meter head off, pick up the bike, lock and all, then
replace the meter head.

--Kamus

--Kamus

"Thomas Schmidt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

a friend told me that all these bicycle locks that have
these round or tubular keys are not safe because they were
easy to open with so-called "picktools". he also told me
that there are newer locks with a "ace-2" lock or
something which are safer.

The question is: does all that only regard cheap noname-
locks or even brand-name locks like kryptonite? I am
asking because I have 3 kryptonite locks in use, one
EvoLite (4 years old), one New York Chain (2 years old)
and a quite old kryptonite I don't know the exact name,
should be about 10 years old.

Do at least the newer ones feature this "ace-2" lock or do
I have to replace them all?

The marketing dilweeds want you to replace ALL of your
locks. If someone wants your bike, it doesn't matter what
lock is on it. I've said it before and I'll say it again,
keep your mountain bike indoors unless you are going to ride
the trails. For putting around town, use a beater, aka
"townie". Then if the townie gets stolen, you're not out of
too much of your hard earned dough. Besides, most thieves
will not bother with a townie.

JD

"Thomas Schmidt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<2jqq7sF119ktuU1@uni-
berlin.de>... <snip>

Quoted message said:

Do at least the newer ones feature this "ace-2" lock or do
I have to replace them all?

The marketing dilweeds want you to replace all of your locks
every year. Keep your "expensive" mountain bike inside
unless you are going to ride the dirt and buy a townie for
putting around town.

JD

On 2004-06-22, Thomas Schmidt penned:

Quoted message said:

What Monique said was NOT good advice, it was useless
because she did not answer my question and just wrote
something general instead.

Of course, of course. You're absolutely right. I tried to
help you with your real problem (not wanting to get your
bike stolen) rather than with your perceived problem
(telling the difference between locks).

You're agonizing about the type of lock to put on your front
door while your windows are all wide open.

--
monique

Thomas Schmidt said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Sorry, but this is useless blah blah.

If good advice is useless "blah, blah, blah" then maybe
you need to ask about this in alt.locksmithing instead.
(Yes, it exists, as does alt.life.locksmithing)

Steve "full of blah, blah, blah..."

What Monique said was NOT good advice, it was useless
because she did not answer my question and just wrote
something general instead.

OK, you forced me to re-read the thread. Her advice was spot-
on, and you should thank her for taking the time to reply to
you at all instead of deriding her comments.

Reminds me of an idiot in wreck.misc who asked for excercise
advice and reading recommendations, and then found fault
with every single suggestion.

Bill "go read lock reviews if you don't like it here" S.

Thomas Schmidt said:

What Monique said was NOT good advice, it was useless
because she did not answer my question and just wrote
something general instead.

Are you under the impression that Monique is on your
payroll? That she owes you some research or that she should
spend time working on your behalf?

No one here owes you squat. Usenet is free; take it or leave
it. People contribute what they want. You are free to use it
or not. But rules of common decency apply; when asking for a
favor, don't be an [censored].

If you want to know about this ace-2 lock, google for it,
spend a couple of hours (or days) reading up on it, and post
the results. Otherwise, quit your [censored] and go away.

--Kamus

"Thomas Schmidt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Any lock can be picked or frozen/shattered. If you
really, really don't want your bike stolen, don't leave
it unattended.

Sorry, but this is useless blah blah. There is a
difference if a lock has easy-to-pick cylinders or difficult-to-
pick cylinders like the ace-2, and that is what I want
to know.

This is bike forum. Not a lockpicking forum.

Go here:

lockpicking101.comlockpicking101.comOpen ↗

Thomas Schmidt said:

Hi,

a friend told me that all these bicycle locks that have
these round or tubular keys are not safe because they were
easy to open with so-called "picktools". he also told me
that there are newer locks with a "ace-2" lock or
something which are safer.

The question is: does all that only regard cheap noname-
locks or even brand-name locks like kryptonite? I am
asking because I have 3 kryptonite locks in use, one
EvoLite (4 years old), one New York Chain (2 years old)
and a quite old kryptonite I don't know the exact name,
should be about 10 years old.

Do at least the newer ones feature this "ace-2" lock or do
I have to replace them all?

Thank you for your advice, Thomas

I had a Kryptonite New Yorker Chain (with old style EV Disc
lock) and it was picked while I was at college. The bike was
subsequently stolen, of course. If you must buy a lock, make
sure it's the so-called 'ace-2' version.

John M

"Thomas Schmidt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

a friend told me that all these bicycle locks that have
these round or tubular keys are not safe because they were
easy to open with so-called "picktools". he also told me
that there are newer locks with a "ace-2" lock or
something which are safer.

You sure you want an "ace-2" lock?

gun-room.comproduct348.htmlOpen ↗

jack said:

"Thomas Schmidt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

a friend told me that all these bicycle locks that have
these round or tubular keys are not safe because they were
easy to open with so-called "picktools". he also told me
that there are newer locks with a "ace-2" lock or
something which are safer.

You sure you want an "ace-2" lock?

gun-room.comproduct348.htmlOpen ↗

lol That's just wrong!!!

--
Slacker

Monique Y. Mudama said:

On 2004-06-22, Thomas Schmidt penned:

Quoted message said:

Hi,

a friend told me that all these bicycle locks that have
these round or tubular keys are not safe because they were
easy to open with so-called "picktools". he also told me
that there are newer locks with a "ace-2" lock or
something which are safer.

The question is: does all that only regard cheap noname-
locks or even brand-name locks like kryptonite? I am
asking because I have 3 kryptonite locks in use, one
EvoLite (4 years old), one New York Chain (2 years old)
and a quite old kryptonite I don't know the exact name,
should be about 10 years old.

Do at least the newer ones feature this "ace-2" lock or do
I have to replace them all?

My advice:

If a thief wants your bike, no lock will stop them. I've
had friends return to their cars only to find that part of
the rack has been sawed off to remove the bike.

Any lock can be picked or frozen/shattered. If you really,
really don't want your bike stolen, don't leave it
unattended.

And for god's sake, make sure you have renter's or
homeowner's insurance! It covers the loss of bikes
and such.

A hacksaw did my Kryptonite lock in and my bike vanished in
thin air.....

I thought Monique dished out good advice just then.. Cranky
[censored]. also theives dont pick locks they hack off locks
and prly locks off with crow bars the weakest spot on the
chain/lock join. they'd use a car jack, anything ! but
picking them unless very skilled crims wont pick your lock.
especially 3 locks. or however many you are using.

"Thomas Schmidt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:2jqq7sF119ktuU1@uni-
berlin.de...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

a friend told me that all these bicycle locks that have
these round or tubular keys are not safe because they were
easy to open with so-called "picktools". he also told me
that there are newer locks with a "ace-2" lock or
something which are safer.

The question is: does all that only regard cheap noname-
locks or even brand-name locks like kryptonite? I am
asking because I have 3 kryptonite locks in use, one
EvoLite (4 years old), one New York Chain (2 years old)
and a quite old kryptonite I don't know the exact name,
should be about 10 years old.

Do at least the newer ones feature this "ace-2" lock or do
I have to replace them all?

Thank you for your advice, Thomas

Kamus of Kadizhar <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Thomas Schmidt said:

Sorry, but this is useless blah blah. There is a
difference if a lock has easy-to-pick cylinders or difficult-to-
pick cylinders like the ace-2, and that is what I want
to know.

Not really. No thief is going to take the time to pick a
lock. A squirt of freon, a tap with a hammer, and he's got
your bike.

Urban legend. Freon is a simple CFC. The Dupont trademarked
"Freon" is/was used as a refrigerant, but even submerging
metals in it has no effect on the structure of the metal. As
a side note, one of the inventors of Freon (Thomas Midgley)
demonstrated the "safety" of Freon by inhaling the gas, and
then exhaling it to blow out a candle.

And before anyone jumps on liquid nitrogen ... it is costly
(in useful amounts) and hard to work with.

Most U-locks are broken mechanically. It is quick, easy, and
can be done with readily available tools.

R

<snip

Reco Diver said:

Urban legend. Freon is a simple CFC. The Dupont
trademarked "Freon" is/was used as a refrigerant, but even
submerging metals in it has no effect on the structure of
the metal.

T'aint the structure. It's the fact that when you release a
compressed gas (any gas) the temp drops. Freon just happens
to be very good at that.

So, take a compressed gas, release it with metal in the way,
metal freezes. Freeze metal enough, it becomes brittle. Tap
it with a hammer, it shatters.

IIRC, hardened steel is especially prone to this; this is
apparently why some locks have a mild steel 'sheath' around
a hardened steel core.

Nothing to do with Freon or its safety; you could use CO2
for a demo. Heck, have you never had a valve freeze after
using one of those CO2 cartridges?

Some googling - turns out that the freezing method has
dropped in popularity; I guess because now you need a
license for Freon and locks have become less susceptible.

--Kamus

--
o | o__ >[] | A roadie who doesn't ride a
mountain bike has no soul. ,>/'_ /\ | But
then a mountain biker who doesn't ride a road
bike has no legs... (_)\(_) \ \ | -Doug
Taylor, alt.mountain-bike

"Kamus of Kadizhar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Reco Diver said:

Urban legend. Freon is a simple CFC. The Dupont
trademarked "Freon" is/was used as a refrigerant, but
even submerging metals in it has no effect on the
structure of the metal.

T'aint the structure. It's the fact that when you release
a compressed gas (any gas) the temp drops. Freon just
happens to be very good at that.

So, take a compressed gas, release it with metal in the
way, metal freezes. Freeze metal enough, it becomes
brittle. Tap it with a hammer, it shatters.

IIRC, hardened steel is especially prone to this; this is
apparently why some locks have a mild steel 'sheath'
around a hardened steel core.

Nothing to do with Freon or its safety; you could use CO2
for a demo. Heck, have you never had a valve freeze after
using one of those CO2 cartridges?

Some googling - turns out that the freezing method has
dropped in popularity; I guess because now you need a
license for Freon and locks have become less susceptible.

--Kamus

No, Reco Diver is 100% correct on this one. Freon, CO2 and
other commonly compressed gases do not get cold enough to
shatter a bicycle lock. Liquid nitrogen is one gas that
requires extremely high pressure to become a liquid and it
will get cold enough. If CO2 and freon could get this cold
people would severly burn their hands when inflating their
bicycles tires or filling their A/C systems.

It's an urban myth that thieves use these common gases to
bust locks. They simply take a hydraulic jack and pop the
lock. Sorry, no lock picks and no exotic gases.

Dave

"John Morgan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:ym3Cc.2257$BS3.444@fed1read06...

Quoted message said:

Thomas Schmidt said:

Hi,

a friend told me that all these bicycle locks that have
these round or tubular keys are not safe because they
were easy to open with so-called "picktools". he also
told me that there are newer locks with a "ace-2" lock
or something which are safer.

The question is: does all that only regard cheap noname-
locks or even brand-name locks like kryptonite? I am
asking because I have 3 kryptonite locks in use, one
EvoLite (4 years old), one New York Chain (2 years old)
and a quite old kryptonite I don't know the exact name,
should be about 10 years old.

Do at least the newer ones feature this "ace-2" lock or
do I have to replace them all?

Thank you for your advice, Thomas

I had a Kryptonite New Yorker Chain (with old style EV
Disc lock) and it

was

Quoted message said:

picked while I was at college. The bike was subsequently
stolen, of course. If you must buy a lock, make sure it's
the so-called 'ace-2' version.

Easy pick'ins, huh? That sucks. I bet the theif had one hell
of a grin on his face riding off with your bike. So did
Kryptonite replace it or what???

Dave