of course they have ! if it is the same Bicycling magazine of the past, they were the best source for science into cycling, with people like Steve Bauer, Andy Hampsteen and Greg Lemond contributing their inside knowledge from european races, i had a subscription at the time. Articles were always backed-up, like they do in this one, writings from a biomechanist in a sports medicine center, thanks for your contribution !dominikk85 said:
im doing my share of reading but on the powermeter stuff, i confess that i am a bit behind the curve on power, for this thread im pretty confident im not wrong, im just coming from training paying special attention on my pedaling, even when sitting down i can see my knee coming up to the 12 o'clock position, which makes your leg milliseconds ahead in position for the downstroke, its an acquired thing that´s why people forget about it, at the very least it will make you look good pedaling and not like a newbie, maybe focusing on breathing in-itself won't make you recover faster, but while you do it your mindset will shift from "hell am toasted" to "come-on i can catch them" ! its like the Karate Kid kind of training, which is replaced today by psychologists and such,daveryanwyoming said:
You're certainly entitled to your beliefs, but when those beliefs aren't backed up by anything other than your own conviction and when they reflect long held but similarly unfounded beliefs they're generally known as myths which is what this thread is all about.
well no need to get into an arguement here.
Certainly the data are like they are but still that is no proof that trying to have a round pedal stroke is bad. maybe it is not generating a lot of force but it might at least limit breaking forces. for example your graph shows basically no positive forces in the back half of the circle but if you would not try to lift the trail knee at all the breaking forces might be higher. you might also be able to avoid some breaking forces in the "scrap the mud" phase.
It's not clear what you mean by "breaking forces".dominikk85 said:well no need to get into an arguement here.
Not necessarily proof that trying itself is bad (actually IIRC I've read about some studies saying that doing anything else but what comes naturally will reduce efficiency) but if you are putting a lot of effort and especially valuable training time doing single legged riding or other pedalling drills that could be used much more productive way by just concentrating on riding.Originally Posted by dominikk85 .
well no need to get into an arguement here.
Did you even read the first page of this thread?Originally Posted by dominikk85 .
well no need to get into an arguement here.
So yes, I agree completely that learning to pedal smoothly enough to get your feet up and out of the way on the back stroke is likely useful for most beginners or those trying to extend their useful range of cadences. But that still doesn't alter the answer to the OP that circular pedaling is a myth.
This brings up a related question. If clipless pedals don't increase efficiency, what good are they? I've been using for years now because I thought they made me more efficient, but lately I've been searching for any reason at all to use them. Some people claim clipless pedals prevent injuries caused by slipping off the pedals, but personally slipping off the pedals is the least of my worries. I've never been injured by slipping off platform pedals, but I have been injured more than once because I could not get my foot out of a clipless pedal.
When I've ridden platform pedals without cleats, clips, or straps my feet will occasionally slip, not in a dangerous way nor completely off the pedals but I do lose part of a pedal stroke here and there repositioning my feet. That's gotta be worth something in terms of efficiency but when I've done 20 minute Threshold intervals on platform pedals and tennies (which I've done a couple of times, once when my pedals seized up and needed to be replaced and once when I broke a cleat on my normal cycling shoes) the sustained power was within a couple of watts of what I'd expect with my clipless pedals and cleats. Still not having to reposition the foot or worrying about it slipping around is pretty useful.
After reading that article (cited by me on page 1 or 2 of the thread) I tried that early intiation (just before 12) too and I felt a lot more power than before. the article mentions that most initiate the down stroke too late (probably when they are at two o clock and not at or before 12). I also used to merely glide the foot forward till about 2 o clock ("the book" talks about kicking the foot forward then push down) and then stomp down. this caused me to get my force peak probably too late (more like at 4 o clock when the optimum power phase is already nearing its end) instead of at 2-3 of clock. this might be because you cannot get to max force immediately for building power.
) because I had more power. before that I could only generate speed at very high gears when I was almost spinning out because I could not generate a lot of down force despite being quite strong.
But isn't that caused by the fact that clipless pedals make for very bad platform pedals when not clipped in? My SPD pedals on my road bike are quite dangerous when I'm not clipped in, but the same is not true of the BMX/DH platform pedals I have on my mountain bike. On my BMX/DH platform pedals, I can position my feet in all sorts of ways and they stick dry, wet, or muddy.
I've heard others talk about cornering as well. I just don't get that one, When I'm cornering tightly, I'm not pedaling, so how would my feet slip off? I worry a lot more about one of my wheels slipping and having to put my foot down to control the slide. Bumpy descents on the other hand... I have slipped off my platforms a couple times while mountain biking down a bumpy hill at high speed (never on the road though), but it didn't cause a crash or an injury.
There isn't any science in that article. Science below:
I'd been riding and racing for almost a decade when clipless pedals were invented so yes I grew up with platform pedals and then raced with toe clips and straps for a number of years before moving to clipless pedals in the late '80s.
