Increase strength/ Keeping lightweight
- Thread starter dm69
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Probably yes. Bear in mind I have a 2 hour duration on the flat, coupled with the squats that go to the 20 rep range twice a week. I know the squats don't directly help my cycling but given the reps are so high I feel my cardiovascular system gets quite a push.
So, I keep it brief and intense these days.
So, I keep it brief and intense these days.
WarrenG said:
Carrera said:
So, getting better at sprints during bike races is not really an interest for you?
I was injured earlier this season (shoulder) and did 20-rep sets of leg presses for 6 weeks. They didn't even maintain my ability to sprint, much less improve it. Virtually no cardiovascular benefit either. It took me 4-5 weeks of very hard sprinting on the bike to get back to where I was before the 6 week period of no sprinting.
A decent cycling sprinter will do at least 5 sprints in a session, up to 9 for me if the rest periods are kept near 3 minutes. Bike sprinting is not like weightlifting. Bill knows now.
I will maintain my belief in sports specific training for competitors.
When I competed in bodybuilding it was taboo to do any kind of endurance training and cardio was also kept to a minimum to save calories and to help add muscle mass. Cardio was only used as minimally as possible to lean out while retaining as much muscle mass as possible. Some bodybuilders try not to do any cardio at all and a rare few can achieve the lean conditioning without cardio. I wasn't that lucky.
I am also into waterskiing (slalom skiing to specific) and I thought once I picked up cycling that my endurance on the bike would help my conditioning for slalom skiing. After the first slalom run my heart rate was near maximum. While my endurance on the bike had greatly improved it had no effect on my conditioning for skiing. However, if I was able to get to the lake and ski a couple of hours each day my slalom skiing would improve my conditioning for slalom skiing.
I suppose I have just seen too many personal examples through the years that I am convinced that if you want to climb to the top of a particular athletic event you really need to get specific about the training.
When I competed in bodybuilding it was taboo to do any kind of endurance training and cardio was also kept to a minimum to save calories and to help add muscle mass. Cardio was only used as minimally as possible to lean out while retaining as much muscle mass as possible. Some bodybuilders try not to do any cardio at all and a rare few can achieve the lean conditioning without cardio. I wasn't that lucky.
I am also into waterskiing (slalom skiing to specific) and I thought once I picked up cycling that my endurance on the bike would help my conditioning for slalom skiing. After the first slalom run my heart rate was near maximum. While my endurance on the bike had greatly improved it had no effect on my conditioning for skiing. However, if I was able to get to the lake and ski a couple of hours each day my slalom skiing would improve my conditioning for slalom skiing.
I suppose I have just seen too many personal examples through the years that I am convinced that if you want to climb to the top of a particular athletic event you really need to get specific about the training.
I agree with you. There is no dispute here on my part. Let me point out, though, I'm not a sprinter and don't specialise in sprints.
I believe when I do my high-rep squats it does benefit my cardiovascular system although I guess it doesn't specifically improve my cycling. There is some cardio benefit if you do very high reps on a squat but I agree it's not as good as cycling for what a cyclist need - i.e. lots of cycling.
Still, this is almost the same with running. The guy I train with is a track sprinter in as much as he runs. Now he's thinking of doing some cycling and we were discussing how it might affect his running. Of course, running and cycling are very different with different dynamics. Squats for him are also more beneficial than for me (as a cyclist) as his goal is explosive speed when he runs for brief periods.
At any rate, I often wonder why sprinter cyclists choose leg-presses as opposed to squats or even smith-machione squats. I mean Lance and Jan do leg-presses too and it baffles me why. I view them as pretty usless. At least squats put some load on the lumbar region and do increase your pulse rate significantly during higher reps. So, on a rainy day a track sprinter will probably get more out of it than the leg-press machine.
I believe when I do my high-rep squats it does benefit my cardiovascular system although I guess it doesn't specifically improve my cycling. There is some cardio benefit if you do very high reps on a squat but I agree it's not as good as cycling for what a cyclist need - i.e. lots of cycling.
Still, this is almost the same with running. The guy I train with is a track sprinter in as much as he runs. Now he's thinking of doing some cycling and we were discussing how it might affect his running. Of course, running and cycling are very different with different dynamics. Squats for him are also more beneficial than for me (as a cyclist) as his goal is explosive speed when he runs for brief periods.
At any rate, I often wonder why sprinter cyclists choose leg-presses as opposed to squats or even smith-machione squats. I mean Lance and Jan do leg-presses too and it baffles me why. I view them as pretty usless. At least squats put some load on the lumbar region and do increase your pulse rate significantly during higher reps. So, on a rainy day a track sprinter will probably get more out of it than the leg-press machine.
WarrenG said:
Let me clarify the context: I meant high-rep squatting will bring some benefit to the cardiovascular system but only "some" benefit. In other words, I believe when the pulse escalates during these sessions, it's more benefit than the option of doing nothing at all - that is, on a rainy day.
I haven't stated such training will improve your cycling performance, except possibly on sprints. Even then, I really don't know much about how sprinters such as Robby Mcewan train - whether they do high or low reps or whatever the case may be.
I haven't stated such training will improve your cycling performance, except possibly on sprints. Even then, I really don't know much about how sprinters such as Robby Mcewan train - whether they do high or low reps or whatever the case may be.
acoggan said:
Well, today I did my sprint. Maybe you folks would have felt inspired 
I did notice that my legs seemed to deaden halfway up the hill and it was a heck of an effort to stay so long out of the seat.
This year I'm not in serious training so I kind of work in my cycling with my work requirements. I ride maybe an hour or so out to the country, work on my boat, and then I do this flat sprint uphill since there's a really steep stretch out there.
The ride back has some hills as well so I still spent maybe 3 hours on the bike, pedaling quite hard.
I could be a lot fitter but all of this keeps me from putting on too much weight and keeps me active.
I did notice that my legs seemed to deaden halfway up the hill and it was a heck of an effort to stay so long out of the seat. This year I'm not in serious training so I kind of work in my cycling with my work requirements. I ride maybe an hour or so out to the country, work on my boat, and then I do this flat sprint uphill since there's a really steep stretch out there.
The ride back has some hills as well so I still spent maybe 3 hours on the bike, pedaling quite hard.
I could be a lot fitter but all of this keeps me from putting on too much weight and keeps me active.
Billsworld said:Hes a Brit. He needs a spot of tea after
What do the top (pro) riders do in your region do as far as X-training is concerned? I heard lance just does a bit of upper body work in the winter months. He was also a triathlete so swimming could have, well definitely has strengthened his cycling engine.
I have second hand news of one of our strongest riders in our region, apparently he doesn't do any strength work and does just a little bit of swimming. Apparently it could be more due to the fact that there isn't enough hours in the day for him to train, gym and recover.
Are there many books on this topic besides lance/ carmichael training book, boardman etc. I am more interested in hearing what the pro's do not necessarily what joe friel or whatever his name is does.
I have second hand news of one of our strongest riders in our region, apparently he doesn't do any strength work and does just a little bit of swimming. Apparently it could be more due to the fact that there isn't enough hours in the day for him to train, gym and recover.
Are there many books on this topic besides lance/ carmichael training book, boardman etc. I am more interested in hearing what the pro's do not necessarily what joe friel or whatever his name is does.
Carrera said:Well, today I did my sprint. Maybe you folks would have felt inspired
This year I'm not in serious training so I kind of work in my cycling with my work requirements. I ride maybe an hour or so out to the country, work on my boat, and then I do this flat sprint uphill since there's a really steep stretch out there.
The ride back has some hills as well so I still spent maybe 3 hours on the bike, pedaling quite hard.
I could be a lot fitter but all of this keeps me from putting on too much weight and keeps me active.[/QUOTE I was joking around. As you know I am married to a Brit and having a spot right now. At the end of the day its about quality of life . Last year I was 10 lbs away from being able to do a drug free bodybuilding contest and could ride pretty well too. I felt great and was having a blast training. Warren sucked me into this crazy track cycling thing
dm69 said:
Riding the bike so much tends to encourage some muscle imbalances that more than anything may cause some issues with your back and some misalignments that may lead to things like pinched nerves here and there, some ligaments/tendons that need to be less stressed, etc. Some weight training in the off-season helps to correct/prevent these things and prepare the muscles for what is to come. Some muscle tissue may get lost that also needs a little rebuilding.
The sprinters will do more specific strength training off the bike and on the bike to help with their objectives. For upper body core, pilates is very good.
Lance shared that Eddy Merkcx once told him (as an old pro to a budding cyclist) that he needed to lose the upper body mass he had gained as a triathlete. Merkcx thought Lance was too big to fly in the mountains basically.
Another odd thing is Lance never ever squatted as his coaches didn't want to risk his knees getting injured (even though Ullrich once injured his knees doing leg-presses).
I guess I would be interested to know what sprinters such as Robby Mcewan do by way of weight resistance work. Here is an interesting question, I suppose: Do the sprinters actually squat like the running counterparts? If so, what do they think of very high reps? How much can a cycling sprinter squat?
Another odd thing is Lance never ever squatted as his coaches didn't want to risk his knees getting injured (even though Ullrich once injured his knees doing leg-presses).
I guess I would be interested to know what sprinters such as Robby Mcewan do by way of weight resistance work. Here is an interesting question, I suppose: Do the sprinters actually squat like the running counterparts? If so, what do they think of very high reps? How much can a cycling sprinter squat?
dm69 said:
If he is a road sprinter, I bet not much. The track sprinters do some lifting , but standing starts seem to be the staple for for power building on the bike. The kilo and team sprinters do starts in 100"+ gears with weight vests on. Your countrymen are quite good at it. You ought to look at how the middle distance trackies train, I think you would like itCarrera said:
Carrera said:
Running sprinters only race for 100-200 meters. Road cyclists must first get to the finish. Boonen and Pettachi and some others do 0-6 weeks of weight training for legs at the very beginning of their annual training cycle, December. They do strength training on the bike after that. I've discussed some specifics before. Try a forum search on "SFR".
The movement of squats doesn't translate to road sprinting any better than leg presses with other exercises and the safety for a relative novice weight trainer is better. Pilates and lots of other training on the bike will work better for upper body support of road sprinting.
Lots of uphill sprints are used in training. You can try 3-5 sets of 2-3 reps of 15-30" each, on a hill, all out effort, starting from 0-15mph, using a gear that will allow a maximum cadence near 80-100. Rest 3-4' between reps, and 6-7' between sets. Warm up well, make sure your blood sugar level is high before, and during the sprints. Once per week, when you are at least reasonably fresh before this training.
------------------------------------------------------------------------ZimboNC said:
Agree totally. I'm pretty lean so I could weight train a lot(I've had bouts of weight training over the years) and it would make NO or Little difference to my bulk(especially if I don't change my diet). I would stay lean. At the moment I'm racing almost every Saturday(or participating in a reasonably fast group ride when not racing). I only get about 200kms in for training a week.
I have been doing leg weight work once or twice a week for about 2 months. Calf raisers, Dumbbell squats and seated calf raisers. That's it!
I've found they really help. I feel stronger up hills(especially seated) and my top speed/Sprint ability had improved too.
I've gained no weight.
After a race I have sore abdutors(inner and outer) but my quads and lower legs feel fine whereas before the weight work they would've felt as my abdutors do now.
Weight work for my legs has only been good for me.Similar threads
