Increase strength/ Keeping lightweight

[originalolol]

Can you train your body to more efficiently lift a weight over approximately 30 seconds- 2 minutes without adding bulk in the process or is it just a trade-off that strength equals muscle? I think not after watching those midgets lift weights at the commonwealth games the under 50kg women would annialate 99.99% of the population i reckon .

Improve neuromuscular strength using the exercises the commenwealth weight lifters use: Clean-&-Jerk and ******. These exercises involve a variety of joints and muscles and are the only exercises i perform when weight training.
You will gain strength without size - as shown by the 50kg women.
I generally to sets of 1 rep until i hit my 1rm & it is advisable to rest about 3min between sets

 

[whoawhoa]

Improve neuromuscular strength using the exercises the commenwealth weight lifters use: Clean-&-Jerk and ******. These exercises involve a variety of joints and muscles and are the only exercises i perform when weight training.
You will gain strength without size - as shown by the 50kg women.
I generally to sets of 1 rep until i hit my 1rm & it is advisable to rest about 3min between sets

Or you could improve neuromuscular strength on the bike, at the joint angles and velocities you actually use while cycling.

 

[originalolol]

Or you could improve neuromuscular strength on the bike, at the joint angles and velocities you actually use while cycling.

Cycling is a power sport & maintaining maximal strength is important because if strength declines, so will power & endurance, regardless of how well trained in those areas you are.

On-the-bike workouts and gym training offer the best solution to maintaining the strength acquired from the gym, and endurance from the bike.

Power should take care of itself with other bike workouts typically performed throughout the year.

 

[dm69]

Cycling is a power sport & maintaining maximal strength is important because if strength declines, so will power & endurance, regardless of how well trained in those areas you are.

On-the-bike workouts and gym training offer the best solution to maintaining the strength acquired from the gym, and endurance from the bike.

Power should take care of itself with other bike workouts typically performed throughout the year.

I am surprised you could find this old thread and dare to dust off the cobwebs, haven't been bitten yet?

I also believe a bit of strength on the side as a X-training drill to COMPLEMENT my ultimate goal which is to ride faster is a good idea. I just use low weights and lots of reps. Push ups, step ups (with 20kg's in a backpack), calf raises (20kg's), squats (20kg's), lunges (20kg's), leg drops off a step (20kg's), deadlifts with dumbells (20kg's) and this exercise where you lie on your back with legs pointing to the sky and letting them drop slowly to one side about 10cm off the ground tehn raising them again and dropping to other side...good for obliques.

What type of exercises do you do originalol, can you provide an in depth workout plan and how has it HELPED your cycling in your opinion.

By the way there is nothing like strength endurance to improve strength ON THE BIKE. 2 minutes uphill, slight to medium gradient and big chainring as hard as you can OUCH! this is supposed to hurt.

 

[whoawhoa]

Cycling is a power sport & maintaining maximal strength is important because if strength declines, so will power & endurance, regardless of how well trained in those areas you are.

Are you aware of how low the forces in endurance cycling are? Strength has nothing to do with it, and in a lot of cases can hurt (when it comes with gains in mass). Also, neuromuscular strength is great, because it doesn't result in weight gain or decrease in mitochondrial density. However, adaptations are specific to speed and joint angle trained, so on-the-bike is the only reasonable way of gaining adaptations that will actually help on-the-bike.

You can model out the forces yourself at analyticcycling.com. Also read this article by Ric Stern if you're interested: http://www.cyclingnews.com/fitness/?id=strengthstern

 

[originalolol]

i use clean-&-jerk to combine alot of exercises, eg deadlift, upright row, front squat, split-squat and shoulder press

the deadlift has increased my back and hamstring strength
upright row my back strength as well
front squat my glutes & quadriceps
split-squat = general power in legs
shoulder press my shoulders & triceps, allowing me to stay in the same riding position

i mainly do weight training for rugby, but since doing so have seen improvements, especially in anaerobic cycling

btw i didnt 'find the old thread,' it was a hand out at school & i copied it onto the computer

 

[dm69]

i use clean-&-jerk to combine alot of exercises, eg deadlift, upright row, front squat, split-squat and shoulder press

the deadlift has increased my back and hamstring strength
upright row my back strength as well
front squat my glutes & quadriceps
split-squat = general power in legs
shoulder press my shoulders & triceps, allowing me to stay in the same riding position

i mainly do weight training for rugby, but since doing so have seen improvements, especially in anaerobic cycling

btw i didnt 'find the old thread,' it was a hand out at school & i copied it onto the computer

someone handed this thread around at your school? who would listen to our mumblings lol

 

[Billsworld]

After 20 yrs in the gym, I took up cycling last year. (did some 20+ yrs ago) I continued to train heavy and hard in the gym all last year. Both went fairly well, but because my leg work consisted of fairly heavy squats, I had to take days off from riding after legs. I mixed in swimming on those days and whenever I felt my legs needed a break. I started from scratch. I was about 210 lbs , and started with 3 mile rides that were hard. By Sept. I did my first crit (5th) and rode an 8 mile TT in 20 mins. My squat was still 315x10 Olympic style, and I was in the 190s(very lean). It takes alot of listening to your body to do both. Diet has to be perfect and you need to get rest. BTW, I dont think I was ever on the bike for more than an hour.

 

[Carrera]

Have you ever tried very high reps squats? This is what I do now and, like yourself, I try to skip riding the day after. Having said that, 30 rep sets of squats are so tough on the cardiovascular system, fitness comes into play more than strength. For it to be effective you have to struggling halfway through so the last 10 reps are 100 per cent pain barrier.
In all my years I've rarely seen anyone really squat hard in the sense of very high reps. Most people do 6 - 10 reps which is certainly hard but also over with very fast (and without much stimulation of the cardiovascular system).
All of this I do for overall fitness so I do more than cycle, a bit like a boxer.

Actually, I squat with another athlete who's a sprinter on occasion.

After 20 yrs in the gym, I took up cycling last year. (did some 20+ yrs ago) I continued to train heavy and hard in the gym all last year. Both went fairly well, but because my leg work consisted of fairly heavy squats, I had to take days off from riding after legs. I mixed in swimming on those days and whenever I felt my legs needed a break. I started from scratch. I was about 210 lbs , and started with 3 mile rides that were hard. By Sept. I did my first crit (5th) and rode an 8 mile TT in 20 mins. My squat was still 315x10 Olympic style, and I was in the 190s(very lean). It takes alot of listening to your body to do both. Diet has to be perfect and you need to get rest. BTW, I dont think I was ever on the bike for more than an hour.

 

[Carrera]

There is possibly a danger that squats might interfere with cadence speed and here I say "might" as I'm no expert. However, I'm going by the fact weights tends to stiffen muscles up somewhat and too much muscle around the thighs and quads could possibly hamper cadence speed (tighten you up).
Many boxers such as Chris Eubank avoided weights for this reason as Chris felt it made his muscles too tight for the speed he needed in the ring.

The question now is how much of that strength can be transferred to the bike?

I can set up a program to minimize hypertrophy, but I could not tell you if you would be able to transfer that strength to the bike.

The only time I have felt my gym trained leg strength on the bike has been while mt. biking having to use explosive strength to power over a rock or tree root while climbing. That seems to be the only time I have felt my legs simulate the same feeling as an explosive rep under the squat bar.

If you are going to experiment with training legs and need some advice let me know.

 

[originalolol]

However, I'm going by the fact weights tends to stiffen muscles up somewhat

If you are going to combine weights and cycling you HAVE to incorporate stretching and flexibility routines. I agree that weights can stiffen muscles and so can cycling, especially to the hamstrings.

 

[Billsworld]

I am 44 now and not experirnced enough on the bike to jump on and win races like warren G(btw he trains his ass off), and I have had to make choices. I do standing starts on my track bike in place of gym work. I might migrate back to squat rack in the winter if I feel it will help cycling. If you have ever tried standing starts ; over time they work like the gym but helps cycling more directly. This was/is a tough pill to swallow for me . I use a powermeter whenever I ride, so I have been able to watch the results of experiments closely. In the end if overall health is the desired result , you should lift, ride swim......but if your going to try to juggle lifting and competing on the bike; youve got your work cut out for you. Right now I do one total "upper body" day every 7-10 days just to maintain something. Its light and fast. Off season ...we shall see. I think youll find most guys that have come from a gym background will more or less say the same thing. Carrera, is that Mike Mentzer?

 

[Carrera]

Yes it is indeed Mike Mentzer. I partly follow his high intensity training philosophy which I happen to believe works better for myself as a cyclist as opposed to bodybuilding. Take today: I did just 2 sets of squats in the high rep range but after each set I was spent. Rather than doing endless set after set, I got the job finished in just a few minutes. Yet I see guys who will spend hours doing endnless sets while simultaneously sending text messages on mobile phones - whch they shouldn't be capable of doing during hard training.
I use the same principle in cycling too. I've maximised my intensity on the bike so that training sessions push me to the limit and force me to adapt.

I am 44 now and not experirnced enough on the bike to jump on and win races like warren G(btw he trains his ass off), and I have had to make choices. I do standing starts on my track bike in place of gym work. I might migrate back to squat rack in the winter if I feel it will help cycling. If you have ever tried standing starts ; over time they work like the gym but helps cycling more directly. This was/is a tough pill to swallow for me . I use a powermeter whenever I ride, so I have been able to watch the results of experiments closely. In the end if overall health is the desired result , you should lift, ride swim......but if your going to try to juggle lifting and competing on the bike; youve got your work cut out for you. Right now I do one total "upper body" day every 7-10 days just to maintain something. Its light and fast. Off season ...we shall see. I think youll find most guys that have come from a gym background will more or less say the same thing. Carrera, is that Mike Mentzer?

 

[Billsworld]

Yes it is indeed Mike Mentzer. I partly follow his high intensity training philosophy which I happen to believe works better for myself as a cyclist as opposed to bodybuilding. Take today: I did just 2 sets of squats in the high rep range but after each set I was spent. Rather than doing endless set after set, I got the job finished in just a few minutes. Yet I see guys who will spend hours doing endnless sets while simultaneously sending text messages on mobile phones - whch they shouldn't be capable of doing during hard training.
I use the same principle in cycling too. I've maximised my intensity on the bike so that training sessions push me to the limit and force me to adapt.

There is an old school routine that used to call for 1 set of 20 reps on sqauts to failure , folowed by a set of pullovers asap after the set. Brutal!! The intensities required to make progress leaves you nervous to go into the gym. I followed Fred Hatfields stuff for most of my best years. Right now I am trying to become a cyclist. Interesting how little the weight training applies. I however looked better last year than ever before with mixing the two. I just dont think I was going to get faster this year with the same approach. I believe the Mentzers are no longer with us?

 

[Carrera]

Once you go post 20 on squats, this is guaranteed to send the pulse rate sky high. I've done up to 30 reps with spotters till total failure is reached. This, compared with a normal cycling session, makes huge demands on the recuperative processes and is simply a different kind of stimulus altogether.
So, for overall fitness I like to mix up my cycling with some resistance work but I keep the weights very brief and only do 3 sets per bodypart.
The Mentzers died some time ago. Ray Mentzer had serious kidney problems and Mike had some kind of inherited blood disorder. There are echoes of the old Marco Pantani tragedy as well since, prior to becoming ill, Mike Mentzer had some kind of temporary psychological breakdown - apparently caused by over-work and the use of amphetamines to stay awake for long periods.
Interestingly, Mike Mentzer was by no means the first athlete to promote high-intensity training. Roger Bannister used a similar methodology and also agreed with Mike that athletes should develop themselves academically, not just athletically.
Bannister only trained over an hour a day before he broke the 4 minute mile, although I realise he was a middle distance runner, not a marathon runner.
www.mikementzer.com

There is an old school routine that used to call for 1 set of 20 reps on sqauts to failure , folowed by a set of pullovers asap after the set. Brutal!! The intensities required to make progress leaves you nervous to go into the gym. I followed Fred Hatfields stuff for most of my best years. Right now I am trying to become a cyclist. Interesting how little the weight training applies. I however looked better last year than ever before with mixing the two. I just dont think I was going to get faster this year with the same approach. I believe the Mentzers are no longer with us?

 

[Billsworld]

Once you go post 20 on squats, this is guaranteed to send the pulse rate sky high. I've done up to 30 reps with spotters till total failure is reached. This, compared with a normal cycling session, makes huge demands on the recuperative processes and is simply a different kind of stimulus altogether.
So, for overall fitness I like to mix up my cycling with some resistance work but I keep the weights very brief and only do 3 sets per bodypart.
The Mentzers died some time ago. Ray Mentzer had serious kidney problems and Mike had some kind of inherited blood disorder. There are echoes of the old Marco Pantani tragedy as well since, prior to becoming ill, Mike Mentzer had some kind of temporary psychological breakdown - apparently caused by over-work and the use of amphetamines to stay awake for long periods.
Interestingly, Mike Mentzer was by no means the first athlete to promote high-intensity training. Roger Bannister used a similar methodology and also agreed with Mike that athletes should develop themselves academically, not just athletically.
Bannister only trained over an hour a day before he broke the 4 minute mile, although I realise he was a middle distance runner, not a marathon runner.
www.mikementzer.com

The occasional spew is often followed. Much of the training being used in this sport is the polar opposite of what works for weight training. I was coached to go hard and rest, rest, rest. The cycling routines call for so much riding that its hard for me to recover and I am only doing track.

 

[Carrera]

Yes, there appears to be no concept of rest and recuperation in cycling in the sense we understood it in gymnasiums. In cycling, it's perfectly O.K. to train every day (or even twice a day). Plus, I notice cycling doesn't make me feel tired in the mornings whereas weights sessions may leave me physically knackered the day after.
Presently I occasionally train with a sprinter who runs on the track so he may join in with me on squats. Of course, this is an unusual situation - a road cyclist doing squats with a guy who's geared up for explosive sprinting.
One thing I do notice to my credit is I tend to survive a 20 rep set of squats better than he does (with regard to pulse rate e.t.c.). I mean, I can still stand and walk about taking deep breaths while the other guy tends to take longer to get his breath back - hands on knees e.t.c.
As for cycling performance, I'd describe myself as not a fast rider but very steady and strong on climbs - I climb with guys who maybe weight 3 stone less than I do and do no weights at all. Some can climb a touch faster than I can and I have to watch I don't blow - something maybe weights has left me prone to.

The occasional spew is often followed. Much of the training being used in this sport is the polar opposite of what works for weight training. I was coached to go hard and rest, rest, rest. The cycling routines call for so much riding that its hard for me to recover and I am only doing track.

 

[Billsworld]

Yes, there appears to be no concept of rest and recuperation in cycling in the sense we understood it in gymnasiums. In cycling, it's perfectly O.K. to train every day (or even twice a day). Plus, I notice cycling doesn't make me feel tired in the mornings whereas weights sessions may leave me physically knackered the day after.
Presently I occasionally train with a sprinter who runs on the track so he may join in with me on squats. Of course, this is an unusual situation - a road cyclist doing squats with a guy who's geared up for explosive sprinting.
One thing I do notice to my credit is I tend to survive a 20 rep set of squats better than he does (with regard to pulse rate e.t.c.). I mean, I can still stand and walk about taking deep breaths while the other guy tends to take longer to get his breath back - hands on knees e.t.c.
As for cycling performance, I'd describe myself as not a fast rider but very steady and strong on climbs - I climb with guys who maybe weight 3 stone less than I do and do no weights at all. Some can climb a touch faster than I can and I have to watch I don't blow - something maybe weights has left me prone to.

Ditch the road and become trackie. Can you say 3000TT

 

[WarrenG]

The occasional spew is often followed. Much of the training being used in this sport is the polar opposite of what works for weight training. I was coached to go hard and rest, rest, rest. The cycling routines call for so much riding that its hard for me to recover and I am only doing track.

As you get more fit, those 90 minute rides will seem much easier, and when you can do them, you can do more, hard work at very high intensities during those rides than you could during a 30-60 minute ride. It's like a snowball, the fitter you are the more training you can do, and the more training you can do the fitter you can get. The talented few have this advantage. For the rest it takes a few years to develop something close to it.

When you do squats to failure it is similar to doing sprints to failure. The better you are at them the more likely it is that you will be able to do them as hard as possible. Best not to think ahead about how you will feel after the effort. Something isn't quite normal about a person that forgets how much those efforts hurt, because if they remembered, they would not do them again! Eyes on the prize...

 

[Carrera]

What I like to do is sprint up big hills, which is what I'll be doing this evening. Funnily enough, these days I base my training around my work schedule. I now have to cycle a considerable distance so I can spend the evening working on my boat and then I'll have to cycle back. So, today's cycle ride is all about work and I have a set destination.
On the way back there's very steep country road and I like to use this to sprint all the way up till I'm gulping in air at the summit. I have to use the smallest gear on my cassette for this particular hill but I also practise accelerating and changing a gear up towards the finish.
If I ever feel really crazy I'll pick an even bigger hill and fight my way up in a bigger gear. It's as bad as squats except there is no load on the spine.

As you get more fit, those 90 minute rides will seem much easier, and when you can do them, you can do more, hard work at very high intensities during those rides than you could during a 30-60 minute ride. It's like a snowball, the fitter you are the more training you can do, and the more training you can do the fitter you can get. The talented few have this advantage. For the rest it takes a few years to develop something close to it.

When you do squats to failure it is similar to doing sprints to failure. The better you are at them the more likely it is that you will be able to do them as hard as possible. Best not to think ahead about how you will feel after the effort. Something isn't quite normal about a person that forgets how much those efforts hurt, because if they remembered, they would not do them again! Eyes on the prize...