Mark Hickey wrote:
> "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> My point is that it's disingenuous
> (at best) for someone to be horrified by those abuses without making a
> sound about the much, much greater ones being performed by those we're
> at war with.
No, it really isn't. I *expect* barbarians to act like barbarians.
When the evil act evil, we are supposed to shrink in horror? No. We
screw up our courage and do the right thing.
Let me say it again - it's not about *them*. It is about *us*.
> >
> >That's because they are rightly judging our own by the high standards
> >we have set for ourselves.
>
> And we ARE living up to that. We're punishing those who stray from
> those "high standards" and in fact are staying well below the
> internationally accepted limits (contrary to what some would have you
> believe).
I'm not sure that I agree that the U.S. is acting even now with high
standards. The circumlocutions used in order hold prisoners at Gitmo,
for instance. I don't htink you or I know the whole story, but the
story sold for public consumption isn't the whole story.
> >> Why do you suppose some are searching so dilligently for any misstep
> >> by the US, and shouting anything they find from the highest rooftop -
> >> all while giving a pass to those who kill innocents by the dozen?
> >
> >Strawman. Nobody is giving anyone a pass.
>
> Funny - I don't ever seem to hear anyone (well, other than me or Bill
> S) even mention that the "other side" ain't exactly choir boys.
That's not giving them a pass, no matter how you slice it. There is
outrage at what we did because it is so beneath us, and tarnishes us
all. There is little outrage at the scum because they are acting like
scum.
> >I expect barbarians to do barbaric acts. I do not expect Americans to
> >do barbaric acts. That is why we are different from them. And better.
>
> It's a step in the right direction to admit that we're not as bad as
> the bad guys in the play I suppose...
Step in the right direction? WTF are you yammering about?
> >Their conduct is not the yardstick by which we measure behavior - our
> >*principles* are the yardstick by which we measure behavior. And when
> >we violate our own principles, we need to call those who do it on the
> >carpet.
>
> The problem is, to a large group of people "we" means "any individual
> remotely connected with the US" can bring their hasty condemnation.
I consider that a good thing. Shine the light of day onto who we are,
and the bad actors will be found and punished. The good that we do
should speak for itself.
> Witness the backlash over a few idiot guards in one prison. They've
> extrapolated that to "the US government is corrupt and evil and
> condone torture".
Neither you or I know how far up the chain of command the orders went.
If it went much past the prison, then those guys are doing excellent
CYA. But I'm not buying that it was just a bunch of frat boys letting
off steam. People who say and think that have no freakin' clue how the
military works.
I am guessing that some folks in the chain of command are going to
quietly lose their careers, since they will be following the "up or
out" rule. Since they won't be gaining rank, they'll be out. Nice and
quiet, no messy trials, no finger-pointing up the chain of command. If
it does go higher, then I supposed that sometime within the next 5-10
years there'll be a tell-all book about it.
> But in the end, those we're fighting are just sick
> bastards - we could put all prisoners in a five-star hotel with daily
> massage and it wouldn't change how they treat their prisoners.
We can't control that. We *can* control how *we* do things. And if we
sink to their level, even temporarily, we have done great harm to
ourselves that will take a very long time to heal. But you should know
by now that I'm more about principles than spin.
E.P.
