I guess that makes three things the guy's done right.



Corvus Corvax wrote:
> MTBlood wrote:
>>
>> Damn I can't stand your type...
>
> Right. Is this you?
>
> http://tinyurl.com/bpvy6
>
> CC (the other one)

That's the mullet spelling. DUH!
 
Bill Sornson wrote:
> cc wrote:
>
>>"JD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>gree-c quoted someone else:
>>>
>>>>"I want him to honor my son by bringing the troops home
>>>>immediately," Sheehan told reporters Saturday.
>>>
>>>
>>>That quote could only make one wonder if her son would feel honor in
>>>his name being used to desert a mission he sacrificed his life for
>>>before it was completed.
>>>
>>
>>The sacrifice of life does not make it a just mission. Many have died
>>for terrible causes. I'm sure some of the families of the SS felt
>>that way too.
>
>
> That's all anyone needs to see or hear. Comparing ******'s Nazi Jew-killing
> thugs to Coalition forces in Iraq.
>
> No wonder you post anonymously...

Compare them to what you wish. Latest news is that the abuse of
prisoners is more widespread than we thought, Abu Graib being just one
example. This is not acceptable. Where is the outrage?

This war was a bad idea from the beginning. Anyone who looked at the
available information knew that. Anyone who looked at the big blank
document titled "Winning the Peace" knew it. Anyone watching the polls
knew it. The support wasn't there until Shrub made the fight a fait
accompli, then it spiked, and now it's gone.

It is incompetence bordering on criminal that this clown troupe dragged
us into a war that would prove more difficult than they thought, that
would last longer than they thought, and now suffers the resounding lack
of public support that it has now.

War is humanity at its worst, and deserves profoundly more discretion
than our <ahem> leaders gave it in this case.

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall

Conservative dictionary:
Judicial Activist: n. A judge who tends to rule against your wishes.
 
Raptor wrote:

> This war was a bad idea from the beginning. Anyone who looked at the
> available information knew that.

Like Hillary, Kerry, Edwards...
 
Raptor <[email protected]> wrote:

>Bill Sornson wrote:
>> cc wrote:

>> That's all anyone needs to see or hear. Comparing ******'s Nazi Jew-killing
>> thugs to Coalition forces in Iraq.
>>
>> No wonder you post anonymously...
>
>Compare them to what you wish. Latest news is that the abuse of
>prisoners is more widespread than we thought, Abu Graib being just one
>example. This is not acceptable. Where is the outrage?

I see plenty of indignation over any legitimate abuse that occurred at
AG. Heck, it was front page on the New York Times for weeks.
Fortunately, those who are responsible are being punished
appropriately - that's how our system works. I should point out that
the tapes showing Saddam's regime's treatment of prisoners would make
being stacked naked look like a picnic.

OTOH, we have terrorists sawing the heads off hostages, others blowing
up women and children... which doesn't seem to produce a whit of
outrage among those complaining the loudest about AG.

Why do you suppose some are searching so dilligently for any misstep
by the US, and shouting anything they find from the highest rooftop -
all while giving a pass to those who kill innocents by the dozen?

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame
 
Mark Hickey wrote:
> Raptor <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Bill Sornson wrote:
>>> cc wrote:
>
>>> That's all anyone needs to see or hear. Comparing ******'s Nazi
>>> Jew-killing thugs to Coalition forces in Iraq.
>>>
>>> No wonder you post anonymously...
>>
>> Compare them to what you wish. Latest news is that the abuse of
>> prisoners is more widespread than we thought, Abu Graib being just
>> one example. This is not acceptable. Where is the outrage?
>
> I see plenty of indignation over any legitimate abuse that occurred at
> AG. Heck, it was front page on the New York Times for weeks.
> Fortunately, those who are responsible are being punished
> appropriately - that's how our system works. I should point out that
> the tapes showing Saddam's regime's treatment of prisoners would make
> being stacked naked look like a picnic.
>
> OTOH, we have terrorists sawing the heads off hostages, others blowing
> up women and children... which doesn't seem to produce a whit of
> outrage among those complaining the loudest about AG.
>
> Why do you suppose some are searching so dilligently for any misstep
> by the US, and shouting anything they find from the highest rooftop -
> all while giving a pass to those who kill innocents by the dozen?

Two words: media bias.

Bill "left out 'blatant'" S.
 
Mark Hickey wrote:
>
> I should point out that
> the tapes showing Saddam's regime's treatment of prisoners would make
> being stacked naked look like a picnic.

We are not defined by what they do. We are defined by our own
principles. If we use your logic, we are allowed to do all sorts of
things, short of hacking their heads off. Rape, torture - it's OK as
long as we don't hack their heads off, right?

But I'm guessing you don't actually believe that.

> OTOH, we have terrorists sawing the heads off hostages, others blowing
> up women and children... which doesn't seem to produce a whit of
> outrage among those complaining the loudest about AG.

That's because they are rightly judging our own by the high standards
we have set for ourselves.

> Why do you suppose some are searching so dilligently for any misstep
> by the US, and shouting anything they find from the highest rooftop -
> all while giving a pass to those who kill innocents by the dozen?

Strawman. Nobody is giving anyone a pass.

I expect barbarians to do barbaric acts. I do not expect Americans to
do barbaric acts. That is why we are different from them. And better.

Their conduct is not the yardstick by which we measure behavior - our
*principles* are the yardstick by which we measure behavior. And when
we violate our own principles, we need to call those who do it on the
carpet.

And keep in mind one thing: the worst of what we do to our prisoners
is the *best* that can be expected if our boys/girls ever get taken
prisoner. So we'd better make sure our worst is principled. Since I
have family members on the ground over there, this is personal for me.

E.P.
 
Bill Sornson wrote:
> cc wrote:
>
> He sees no difference between "the SS" and US soldiers, so whatever he
> writes has zero credibility or weight.
>
> You bias is hanging out; don't trip on it!

Same for you - he didn't say they were the same.

He was drawing a parallel. And the parallel he drew (and not the one
you are assigning) is apt.

Just because someone thinks they are doing the right thing doesn't mean
they actually are doing the right thing.

In Salem, MA, in the 17th century, some town leaders thought they were
doing God's will when they executed some young women who were likely
the victims of grain fungus poisoning. *Thinking* you are doing the
right thing is not the same thing as *doing* the right thing.

Don't let your bias make you lose sight of the real argument.

E.P.
 
Mark Hickey wrote:
>
> The fact remains that the vast majority of statesmanship is done over
> the phone.

Yeah, the POTUS telecommutes.

Good one - I'll have to add that to the list of howlers I have going.

E.P.
 
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 18:30:57 GMT, Bill Sornson wrote:

> The noble cause is millions (MILLIONS) of people freed from oppression and
> tyranny.

Ummm...wasn't the war supposed to be removal of WMD?

Not that I ever believed it; about the time this war was started I
mentioned that I suspected this was really about trying to force democracy
into the Middle East, and that it would fail because of the tribal
conflicts that have been going on in Iraq for the past century (or more).
Other problems were forseeable when Rumsfeld decided he knew more about
war than the US Army. It still burns me up that he called the Chief of
Staff's recommendations "ridiculous".

> On a "practical" level, transforming Iraq (and Afghanistan) will, if
> successful, lessen and perhaps even defeat the forces that create and
> foster terrorism in generations to come.

"Practical"? Fanciful, more likely. The current quagmire exists because
Bush wasn't being "practical"; its not as if the current situation was
unexpected. And if he was sending troops there for the "noble cause" of
seeing if we could force democracy into the Middle East, he should have
been honest about it up-front. It was supposed to be about WMDs, you know.

OTOH, those who think that simply pulling out at this point is the
solution need to be realistic as well. Saddam's regime was a government
created by revolution. So was the one before that, and the one before
that. And there is another one going on right now. Leaving a weak
government at this point will very likely result in yet another overthrow,
very likely putting in place (at least temporarily) that ACTIVELY supports
terrorism (as in terrorism outside of Iraq, not terrorism that is part
of a rebellion).

That is the "noble cause" that our kids are dying for. The initial "noble
cause" (WMDs) wasn't all that noble (it was either horrible mismanagement
or a ruse), the resulting "noble cause" (democracy in Iraq) wasn't
particularly noble because its impracticality, but the current "noble
cause" (staving off a new terrort-supporting government) does affect
Americans, and probably Europeans as well.

--
-BB-
To e-mail me, unmunge my address
 
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 23:26:16 -0500, MTBlood wrote:

> Holy ****..now I have it..you were reminding me of someone and now I know
> who...you're the political version of Vandeman

So does the part about insisting that his opinion means less because he's
using an anonymous username.

--
-BB-
To e-mail me, unmunge my address
 
[email protected] wrote:

> I expect barbarians to do barbaric acts. I do not expect Americans to
> do barbaric acts. That is why we are different from them. And
> better.

Man, if a pro-Bushie wrote that last part, he or she would be attacked
big-time.

> Their conduct is not the yardstick by which we measure behavior - our
> *principles* are the yardstick by which we measure behavior. And when
> we violate our own principles, we need to call those who do it on the
> carpet.

We do. And did.

> And keep in mind one thing: the worst of what we do to our prisoners
> is the *best* that can be expected if our boys/girls ever get taken
> prisoner. So we'd better make sure our worst is principled. Since I
> have family members on the ground over there, this is personal for me.

Agreed. And best wishes to them.

(I bet a lot of prisoners now at Gitmo /really/ don't want to be sent back
to their COOs like's being discussed.)

> E.P.

B.S. (initials only)
 
cc wrote:
> "JD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > gree-c quoted someone else:
> >> "I want him to honor my son by bringing the troops home immediately,"
> >> Sheehan told reporters Saturday.
> >
> >
> > That quote could only make one wonder if her son would feel honor in
> > his name being used to desert a mission he sacrificed his life for
> > before it was completed.
> >
>
> The sacrifice of life does not make it a just mission.


I never said it did.

> Many have died for terrible causes.


I never said they haven't.

If our armed forces are a purely volunteer force, why did Casey
volunteer for what some may deem a terribe cause? Does that make those
who have volunteered to serve in our armed forces supporters of what
you see as a terrible cause?

> I'm sure some of the families of the SS felt that way too.


Yeah, it was the USA that gassed the Kurds with WMDs, not Saddam and
his henchmen. How does it feel to be safe in your neighborhood
compared to most of the third world toilets on this planet? Why don't
you make yourself some blogspace and rant there. Either that, or go
ride your bike.

JD
 
[email protected] wrote:
> Bill Sornson wrote:
>> cc wrote:
>>
>> He sees no difference between "the SS" and US soldiers, so whatever
>> he writes has zero credibility or weight.
>>
>> You bias is hanging out; don't trip on it!
>
> Same for you - he didn't say they were the same.
>
> He was drawing a parallel. And the parallel he drew (and not the one
> you are assigning) is apt.
>
> Just because someone thinks they are doing the right thing doesn't
> mean they actually are doing the right thing.

OK. So gassing jews in chambers if you /think/ it's the right thing to do
is equivalent to serving in the armed forces in Iraq right now. Wow.

> In Salem, MA, in the 17th century, some town leaders thought they were
> doing God's will when they executed some young women who were likely
> the victims of grain fungus poisoning. *Thinking* you are doing the
> right thing is not the same thing as *doing* the right thing.
>
> Don't let your bias make you lose sight of the real argument.

You mean like far-lefties who actively root against the US now because
they're still ****** about the 2000 election. Gotcha. I won't.
 
"MTBlood" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> ">> nope...can't stand hippies...
>>
>> you can stop proving you're ignorant now. go back to watching television.
>
> Wow...what a great comeback! I'm disappointed...I thought my ignorant ass
> would be awed with your infinite wisdom...

There's no point in arguing with you. You have too much at stake to change
your views and are clearly thoroughly washed.

>
> This is a mountain bike newsgroup..take your anti-war, anti-American ****
> where it belongs. I made great sacrifices for this country and I did so
> with my head high and with honor that can only be bestowed upon a U.S.
> service member. Your statements are a disrespect to every man and women
> in uniform.

I'm not disrespecting you, but your leaders.

>It's simply easy to judge and have opinions from the comfort of your living
>room being influenced by what the media wants you to believe.

This is the point. Can't you see you're the pawn?

Put your boots
> on the ground, dodge a few bullets, and see the progress made by your
> efforts and then come back with your story. Only then will I listen to
> your ramblings....

I didn't ask you to listen. Besides, it would be one thing if I was
**promoting** war. Then asking me to understand firsthand what you are going
through on the front line. You should ask this of Bush -- or of any public
officer for that matter. What I promote is exactly the opposite. So if you'd
like me to take some time out to realize what it would be like to come home
to my family before I talk to you about that, that might make a little more
sense.
 
"Bill Sornson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:p[email protected]...
> [email protected] wrote:
>> Bill Sornson wrote:
>>> cc wrote:
>>>
>>> He sees no difference between "the SS" and US soldiers, so whatever
>>> he writes has zero credibility or weight.
>>>
>>> You bias is hanging out; don't trip on it!
>>
>> Same for you - he didn't say they were the same.
>>
>> He was drawing a parallel. And the parallel he drew (and not the one
>> you are assigning) is apt.
>>
>> Just because someone thinks they are doing the right thing doesn't
>> mean they actually are doing the right thing.
>
> OK. So gassing jews in chambers if you /think/ it's the right thing to do
> is equivalent to serving in the armed forces in Iraq right now. Wow.

I did NOT say it was the same, Bill. Get it straight. Stick to the point.
 
"Bill Sornson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> > I expect barbarians to do barbaric acts. I do not expect Americans to
> > do barbaric acts. That is why we are different from them. And
> > better.
>
> Man, if a pro-Bushie wrote that last part, he or she would be attacked
> big-time.
>

Yeah, they would be accused of hypocrisy.

Greg
 
"JD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> If our armed forces are a purely volunteer force, why did Casey
> volunteer for what some may deem a terribe cause?

Many volunteer because of economics and because they believe in our country
in general, not because they believe in this war.

> Does that make those
> who have volunteered to serve in our armed forces supporters of what
> you see as a terrible cause?
>

Not at all.

Greg
 
G.T. wrote:
> "Bill Sornson" <[email protected]> wrote in
> message news:[email protected]...
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>> I expect barbarians to do barbaric acts. I do not expect Americans
>>> to do barbaric acts. That is why we are different from them. And
>>> better.
>>
>> Man, if a pro-Bushie wrote that last part, he or she would be
>> attacked big-time.
>>
>
> Yeah, they would be accused of hypocrisy.

Only from the American left. The criticism from abroad would be about
perceived arrogance -- but at least they know that America won't resort to
car bombs in public squares and decapitating hostages.
 
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