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Helmets

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UK and Europe
Published
19 April 2004
Last activity
26 November 2012
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Vivian
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  1. "burt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    "David Hansen" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:08:37 +0100 someone who may be
    "burt" <[email hidden]> wrote this:-

    Quoted message said:

    which is why I found it rather odd two weeks ago to be
    asked whether I


    was

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    wearing a helmet by the CTC legal people. No head
    injury at all, so why ask?

    Did you ask them? If so, what did they say?

    yes, and the response was "it's just something we
    have to ask"

    Presumably they need to prepare themselves for what the
    other side are likely to do.

    --
    Dave...

  2. Tony Raven said:

    Jon Senior wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    But you don't have to give monet back to all the punters.
    Just make sure that all biggish wins are well advertised.

    Quoted message said:

    Apparently not. Unless the punter wins back more than a
    certain percentage of their money recycled back to them in
    winnings they move on to another game or casino. There is
    only a few percentage points between what stops them moving
    on and what turns a profit for the casino.

    Since roulette has one of the lowest if not the lowest
    casino returns of casino gambling games, does that mean that
    casinos lose money on roulette?

    --
    Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
    IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
    ["]http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

  3. Chris Malcolm said:

    Since roulette has one of the lowest if not the lowest
    casino returns of casino gambling games, does that mean
    that casinos lose money on roulette?

    As ever The Archers has the answers. At the Felpersham
    casino last week Bert Fry bet on red and lost. He then
    bet on black and lost. Cunningly, he then bet on both
    red and black as that way he'd get something back. 0
    came up. He lost.

    Colin
    --

  4. James Hodson <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Strangely, perhaps, even though I can't feel the right
    side (front) brake lever particulcaly well, I have no
    problem with front braking delicately.

    Interesting. The feedback you get through the response of
    the bicycle is probably what allows you to modulate your
    front braking effectively.

    --
    Dave...

  5. In article <[email hidden]>,
    [email hidden] says...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I admit that there are a number of people for whom
    cycling is nothing more than a form of transport, but my
    gut feeling is that they are probably in the majority.

    I know you meant the opposite, but actually I think you
    were unintentionally correct. Think of all the people on
    gas-pipe bikes whose principal reason for cycling is that
    it's quicker than walking. While the experience is
    undoubtedly not unpleasant for them, neither do I see them
    as the sort to turn up on a Sunday run just for the joy of
    riding the bike.

    Yrs. Must tak care t prof reead my post s before
    sendnig them!

    I was thinking of those people I know who use bikes to
    travel short-ish distances (To work, to the shop...) in
    preference to the car. There is often a practicality to
    this, (It's usually far easier to park a bike than a
    car.) but if they didn't derive some pleasure from the
    activity, they'd probably stop doing it. This is pure
    supposition however.

    Jon

  6. Keith Willoughby said:

    Slot machines depend on constant positive reinforcement to
    keep people playing.

    I once noticed that a slot machine I was playing, a tabletop
    model, was paying out less than it should. I then observed
    that it was making the right amount of clinks but not
    supplying the right amount of coins back. I then managed
    unobtrusively to tip it up a little and discovered that
    there was a large pile of money underneath. Something had
    got bent inside and the coin supply funnel wasn't properly
    aligned with the cash return tray. Fortunately I was wearing
    a coat with very large pockets.

    That positive reinforcement kept me returning to that
    machine until it was fixed about a week later. Maybe
    the management had bent it to increase their
    percentage, and then discovered someone was siphoning
    off some of their profit?

    --
    Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
    IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
    ["]http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

  7. Colin Blackburn said:
    Chris Malcolm said:

    Since roulette has one of the lowest if not the lowest
    casino returns of casino gambling games, does that mean
    that casinos lose money on roulette?

    Quoted message said:

    As ever The Archers has the answers. At the Felpersham
    casino last week Bert Fry bet on red and lost. He then
    bet on black and lost. Cunningly, he then bet on both red
    and black as that way he'd get something back. came up.
    He lost.

    A majestic episode! ("Oi think oi'm beginning to see a
    pattern now!"😉 ;-)

    The casino makes its money on the zero, but it's possible
    the return would be less than the croupier's pay so could
    still conceivably lose money on it (plus nasty pieces of
    work like Bert smashing the place up when they're asked to
    leave, lucky for the casino it wasn't Greg Turner...). But
    even in such a case it's probably a useful loss leader. I
    read that you can live very cheaply in Las Vegas because
    food is very, very cheap at the casinos, the system being
    the happily munching punter is losing more at the tables and
    machines than they're costing you in the snack bars.

    Even further OT, anyone else see "Intacto"? v. cool gambling
    movie with people using, betting and trading innate personal
    luck. The game in the forest looks like it hurts, but it
    would hurt even more on a downhill MTB...

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext.
    33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177
    Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
    dundee.ac.uk~pjclinch

  8. David Martin said:

    On 26/4/04 3:06 pm, in article
    [email hidden], "Chris Malcolm"
    <[email hidden]> wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > Trainers are, on the other hand, perfectly adequate for
    > the Pyg, even if I do prefer boots. Trainers are
    > significantly better if you run back down (which I find
    > easier on the knees).

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Again, I wouldn't recommend it. Boots afford superior
    ankle support. Even on the Tourist Path I'd recommend
    boots.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Boots aren't necessary in good weather and dry conditions
    for walkers with strong ankles and good foot placement
    skills. In fact the weight of boots sufficiently reduces
    agility and increases clumsiness that they greatly
    increase the number of "boots saved my ankle" anecdotes.
    They also weaken the ankles.

    Quoted message said:

    I personally prefer my Scarpa boots but that is me. I have
    relatively weak ankles and can turn them quite easily.

    Once you've turned an ankle it takes years to recover the
    full strength and tension in all the ligaments and tendons
    etc.. Until then your ankle will feel fine but will be
    prone to further turning. Many cases of weak ankles are in
    fact ankles which are being injured repeatedly enough (say
    once every year or two) that they never recover their
    proper strength.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Much better are the so-called "approach shoes", designed
    for scrambling, which although they may look like
    trainers, are quite different in construction and
    properties.

    Quoted message said:

    I'll have to have a look for some.. They could be just
    what I need..

    Scarpa among others make good ones.
    --
    Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
    IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
    ["]http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

  9. Peter Clinch said:
    Chris Malcolm said:

    Gonzalez <[email hidden]> writes:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Again, I wouldn't recommend it. Boots afford
    superior ankle support. Even on the Tourist Path I'd
    recommend boots.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Boots aren't necessary in good weather and dry conditions
    for walkers with strong ankles and good foot placement
    skills. In fact the weight of boots sufficiently reduces
    agility and increases clumsiness that they greatly
    increase the number of "boots saved my ankle" anecdotes.
    They also weaken the ankles.

    Quoted message said:

    "Superior ankle support" is a really silly Sacred Cow, as
    it implies that typical people haven't got enough support
    from their tendons, bones and muscles to do what we've been
    doing for so long the time spans are geological. If they've
    been couch potatoes for their lives then quite possible,
    but anyone regularly hiking should have strong enough
    ankles not to need them unless they're doing special things
    with their ankles. An example of something special that
    really benefits extra ankle support would be skating or
    downhill skiing, which puts significantly more stress on
    ankles than walking.

    I acquired unusually strong ankles as a childhood ice
    skater, and kept them strong by deliberately stressing them
    when offered the opportunity on steep slopes, e.g., walking
    on the edges of my feet. I can't stand the stiff ankles of
    skating boots, and always have to soften them up by pricking
    them, oiling them, and smashing them a lot with a hammer.

    Quoted message said:

    And just as they weaken ankles by propping them up and
    preventing them from getting a proper, normal workout, they
    also add to the leverage if you put your ankle over a long
    way which aggravates the potential for injury (those extra
    rotations again, do they remind you of anything?).

    People often aggravate ankle injuries by trying to keep
    their footing on a badly place foot, which puts the whole
    body weight on something which can't handle it. You can
    learn to avoid this by teaching yourself never to do that,
    but instead to deliberately collapse or fall over in such a
    way as to relieve the damaging ankle pressure. I suspect
    wearing tough ankle-supporting boots actually makes this
    worse, because it makes people feel their feet and ankles
    are protected, and they take less care in where they put
    their feet and how they stress their ankles when
    "protected". Many grown-ups who very rarely do anything
    difficult enough that they fall over now and then acquire a
    superstitious fear of falling, and will go to very injurious
    lengths to avoid falling when they begin to lose balance.
    Thus they turn their ankles, break their wrists and
    collarbones, etc., when simply collapsing gently to the
    ground at the first instability would very often have saved
    them from injury.

    A good way of learning how to care for feet and ankles by
    skill rather than armour is scree running in trainers or
    sandals :-)

    Quoted message said:

    I work next door to an orthopedic centre, and one of the
    chaps there did some research into ankle injuries in
    walking populations back in his native India. All the
    serious ones used shoes, with barefoot having the lowest
    serious injury rates, despite "common sense" and no extra
    ankle support whatsoever suggesting otherwise.

    Quoted message said:

    Look at the hundreds of competitors in a typical mountain
    marathon. They're running rather than walking over
    difficult terrain (peat hags and tussocky grass a
    favourite) and they're carrying a weekend's gear with them
    too (minimalist, yes, but not lighter than a typical day
    pack). What do they wear in these terrible conditions for
    ankles needing ("common sense" would dictate) lots of extra
    support? They wear things like these: northernr-northernr-
    unner.com/storeProductDetails.cfm?product=486 Spot the
    ankle support. Another case of received wisdom and common
    sense being far from the best solution.

    Generally speaking evolution has come to favour the approach
    of avoiding injury by skill and intelligence rather than
    armour. It's a strange paradox that allegedly the most
    intelligent animal on the planet is in general becoming more
    and more convinced of the case for armouring itself against
    the terrible hazards of the outdoors environment.
    --
    Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
    IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
    ["]http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

  10. paul said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,
    [email hidden] says...

    Quoted message said:

    On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:15:47 +0000 (UTC),

    (Chris Malcolm) said:

    Gonzalez <[email hidden]> writes:

    >On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 10:08:23 +0100, "Tony Raven" <junk@raven-
    >family.com> wrote:

    >>Gonzalez wrote:

    >>> Have you tried running it?

    >>I've walked it in summer, winter, sunshine and ice.
    >>Running it does not mean you are running on every
    >>single step of the way. You run where you can and
    >>don't where you can't. That's why its a lot more
    >>energetic but not a lot more difficult to run as to
    >>walk.

    >And there you have me at an advantage. I have walked it
    >once, Snowdon to Pen-y-pass, in summer but moderately
    >high winds.

    >I have, however, walked the Aonach Eagach in winter
    >conditions, and hope to walk the Cuillin in early June
    >for the first time. I will take a helmet.

    The record for running the Cuillin Ridge is currently 3
    hrs 32 mins.

    I expect to take 2 or 3 days if I do it at all.

    How do you run up the In Pin?


    You don't, you run down it 🙂

    Quoted message said:

    Cuillins is a long day really, 2 to 3 days means either
    going up and down unnessecerily, or staying over night up
    there. wouldn't want to do the former, the later however
    sounds positivly bonkers. IMHO of course.

    There are guided Cuilling Ridge "walks" which offer a mid-
    way camp on the ridge (well, just off it), the camp being
    pre-set and pre-stocked so you don't have to carry the
    kit or food.

    --
    Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
    IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
    ["]http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

  11. Keith Willoughby <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Slot machines depend on constant positive reinforcement to
    keep people playing.

    That's what the behaviourists call partial reinforcement. It
    produces a high response rate, which is good for the slot
    machine operator and bad for the mug feeding coins into it.

    --
    Dave...

  12. "Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Mark South said:


    You could also put it as: £2/week = about £100/year or
    £5000 over your lifetime => no major effect on your life
    (as you say, most people waste


    more

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    on other things anyway). But if you win, it alters
    everything.

    I have to applaud you for understanding this, especially
    because of the sheer number of people who are smug about
    not understanding risk/reward strategies (and often
    parade it in their signatures).

    OTOH IIRC as a 35 year old you have more chance of dying
    during the


    lottery

    Quoted message said:

    draw than winning it. And that certainly alters
    everything ;-)

    What makes you think I'm 35?

    I agree that dying changes a lot for some people. Although
    not for everyone.

    Quoted message said:

    I prefer to give my money direct to a charity of my choice
    without any


    lottery

    Quoted message said:

    operators or tour companies taking a slice.

    You're allowed the preference. I was just admiring that at
    least one person out there understands why people put money
    on the lottery.

    I don't play the lottery, and I'm rather disenchanted with
    the whole boiling of UK charities, all of whom spend high
    proportions of their intake on stuff that doesn't further
    their primary cause.
    --
    Mark South Citizen of the World, Denizen of the Net <<Tiens!
    Ce poulet a une grenade!

  13. Quoted post said:

    Originally posted by Patrick Herring
    [B|
    <d-a> Preventing just one is sufficient reason to compel
    helmets. I'll wait until the jury's in on the other aspect,
    which doesn't make sense anyway. </d-a>

    [/B]

    The line that "if a helmet saves just one life then they're worth it" was parroted repeatedly in NZ by the True Believers around the time that the law came into effect, but if you argue that then how many thousands of other 'safety' interventions or prohibitions could be made law, citing that principle?
    You'd be wrapped in cotton wool and locked in a padded room before you could say Eric Martlew.

    Thus, to argue that line as a justifying reason demonstrates that the person claiming it hasn't bothered to think about what it could permit if it were a general rule. It might sound like a good reason - if you're not up to thinking it through.

    Roger

  14. "RogerDodger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Patrick Herring said:

    [B| <d-a> Preventing just one is sufficient reason to
    compel helmets. I'll wait until the jury's in on the
    other aspect, which doesn't make sense anyway. </d-a>

    The line that "if a helmet saves just one life then
    they're worth it" was parroted repeatedly in NZ by the
    True Believers around the time that the law came into
    effect, but if you argue that then how many thousands of
    other 'safety' interventions or prohibitions could be made
    law, citing that principle? You'd be wrapped in cotton
    wool and locked in a padded room before you could say Eric
    Martlew.

    Thus, to argue that line as a justifying reason
    demonstrates that the person claiming it hasn't bothered
    to think about what it could permit if it were a general
    rule. It might sound like a good reason - if you're not up
    to thinking it through.

    first thing to go of course, would be cars. I wonder how
    many helmet proponents would be willing to give up their
    cars to make us wear helmets?

    Quoted message said:


    Roger

    --

  15. Being serious for a brief moment, I am pro helmet, but the
    proposed legislation fails to mention how many kids have
    been choked in parks as a result of their cycle helmet
    getting caught on a climbing frame.

    So the negative aspects away from the bicycle need to be
    considered, you cannot expect the parents to be astute
    enough to educate the children adequately when a high
    proportion of the parents are prone to acts of gross
    stupidity.

    --
    Ian

    catrike.co.ukcatrike.co.uk

    Quoted message said:

    From: "burt" <[email hidden]> Newsgroups:
    uk.rec.cycling Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 07:44:04 +0100
    Subject: Re: Helmets

    "RogerDodger" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Patrick Herring said:

    [B| <d-a> Preventing just one is sufficient reason to
    compel helmets. I'll wait until the jury's in on the
    other aspect, which doesn't make sense anyway. </d-a>

    The line that "if a helmet saves just one life then
    they're worth it" was parroted repeatedly in NZ by the
    True Believers around the time that the law came into
    effect, but if you argue that then how many thousands of
    other 'safety' interventions or prohibitions could be
    made law, citing that principle? You'd be wrapped in
    cotton wool and locked in a padded room before you could
    say Eric Martlew.

    Thus, to argue that line as a justifying reason
    demonstrates that the person claiming it hasn't bothered
    to think about what it could permit if it were a general
    rule. It might sound like a good reason - if you're not
    up to thinking it through.

    first thing to go of course, would be cars. I wonder how
    many helmet proponents would be willing to give up their
    cars to make us wear helmets?

    Quoted message said:


    Roger

    --

  16. burt said:

    first thing to go of course, would be cars. I wonder how
    many helmet proponents would be willing to give up their
    cars to make us wear helmets?

    Would make a lot of roads less smelly places. All we need
    after that is filling in of all the potholes to make them
    smoother as well.

    - Richard

    --
    _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ Richard dot Corfield at ntlworld dot
    com _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/ _/ _/ Time is a one way street, _/
    _/ _/_/ _/_/_/ Except in the Twilight Zone.

  17. Cycle helmets are a contentious subject. Somebody wear, somebody never.

    cycle helmets protect the head by reducing the rate at which the skull and brain would be accelerated or decelerated by an impact.
    The helmet acts like a shock absorber. As it is impacted the expanded polystyrene shell of the helmet dissipates the energy over a rapidly increasing area like a cone. Movement of a helmet about the head and breakage of the helmet shell also assist with the reduction of some energy.

  18. I think wearing a helmet while cycling is good enough to avoid any serious injury as my friend faced in the beginning of recent year. He was coming down the hill on his bike with speed of 55kmph, as he took a U turn, he got hit in a dumper truck parked in center of the road due to engine fault. My friend suffered from broken head, broken nose, his eyes was destroyed and all teeth was broken. He stayed in ventilator for the period of one week but couldn't survive. Actually his brain was damaged badly.

  19. Quoted post said:

    Originally Posted by printingray [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

    I think wearing a helmet while cycling is good enough to avoid any serious injury as my friend faced in the beginning of recent year. He was coming down the hill on his bike with speed of 55kmph, as he took a U turn, he got hit in a dumper truck parked in center of the road due to engine fault. My friend suffered from broken head, broken nose, his eyes was destroyed and all teeth was broken. He stayed in ventilator for the period of one week but couldn't survive. Actually his brain was damaged badly.


    So did he avoid serious injury or did he succumb to loosing his eyes, teeth, brain, and finally his life?

    Or, as I re-read, did you think wearing a helmet would have been enough to avoid serious injury before your friends accident, but wasn't?

  20. printingray said:

    I think wearing a helmet while cycling is good enough to avoid any serious injury as my friend faced in the beginning of recent year. He was coming down the hill on his bike with speed of 55kmph, as he took a U turn, he got hit in a dumper truck parked in center of the road due to engine fault. My friend suffered from broken head, broken nose, his eyes was destroyed and all teeth was broken. He stayed in ventilator for the period of one week but couldn't survive. Actually his brain was damaged badly.

    There's no good conclusion to be drawn from your friends unfortunate death. The only thing that can be said is that the energy imparted to his head created injuries incompatible with life and that for whatever reasons the helmet did not reduce the energy imparted enough for your friend to survive. Helmets are energy absorbers or dissipators. They don't guarantee an outcome but rather help lessen the chances of a poor outcome.

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