Helmets

Vivian said:

I'm new to this group so I don't know if this has been
discussed before.

Wearing a helmet will become compulsory for under 16's in
the UK. I've read/heard many people complaining that this
will deter people from picking up cycling, as wearing a
helmet implies a dangerous activity.

I totally disagree with this.

What do you guys think?

Read a few of the previous articles. They're all on Google
newsgroups. And it's "might" become compulsory, not "will".

"Vivian" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm new to this group so I don't know if this has been
discussed before.

There's a great tool available to find such things out -
type groups.google.com into your favourite web browser,
then type 'uk.rec.cycling' into the search box and hit
search. A browsable list of recent threads should then
appear for your perusal.

Quoted message said:

Wearing a helmet will become compulsory for under 16's in
the UK. I've read/heard many people complaining that this
will deter people from

picking

Quoted message said:

up cycling, as wearing a helmet implies a dangerous
activity.

I totally disagree with this.

What - the idea of making helmet wearing compulsory? Yes,
it's a ridiculous idea, isn't it.

Quoted message said:

What do you guys think?

Using the aforementioned tool, you can also refine your
search to look for eg Helmet or Martlew - a _lot_ has been
written in this group on this subject.

Btw www.cyclehelmets.org is a good place to look for
information on them.

cheers, clive

"Zog The Undeniable" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:40843092.0@entanet...

Quoted message said:

Vivian said:

I'm new to this group so I don't know if this has been
discussed before.

Wearing a helmet will become compulsory for under 16's
in the UK. I've read/heard many people complaining that
this will deter people from

picking

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

up cycling, as wearing a helmet implies a dangerous
activity.

I totally disagree with this.

What do you guys think?

Read a few of the previous articles. They're all on
Google newsgroups. And it's "might" become compulsory,
not "will".

No need to shoot this guy down in flames- it's his
first time!

Welcome to the group!

Simon

www.simonpaddon.com www.coast-coast.info

On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:53:26 +0100, "Vivian" <[email hidden]>

wrote in message : said:

I'm new to this group so I don't know if this has been
discussed before.

Ad nauseam.

Quoted message said:

Wearing a helmet will become compulsory for under 16's
in the UK.

Almost certainly not in this session of Parliament, thanks
to some very hard work by people who really could have done
without the ditraction.

Quoted message said:

read/heard many people complaining that this will deter
people from picking up cycling, as wearing a helmet implies
a dangerous activity. I totally disagree with this.

You are evidently a native of Cloud Cuckoo Land, please show
your passport on entry to the Real World [tm] ;-)

It would be bizarre if it did not result in a substantial
reduction in cycling, as that is precisely what has happened
everywhere else it has been tried. Reductions in injury
rates are rather harder to find. Actually the Government
ackowledges that it knows of no case where cyclist safety
has improved with increased helmet wearing.

Visit cyclehelmets.orgcyclehelmets.orgOpen ↗ for more detail. It is
one of those subjects which, the more you study it, the
less certain you become of anything - other than the fact
that helmet laws are a failed experiment and do more harm
than good.

--
Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after
posting. chapmancentral.co.ukchapmancentral.co.ukOpen ↗

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at
Washington University

in message <[email hidden]>, Vivian

(') said:

I'm new to this group so I don't know if this has been
discussed before.

Oh, no, not again.

This group is intensely weary of discussing helmets. Every
possible point of view has been discussed repeatedly, and
can be found with a quick search of Google. Suffice it to
say that the case for helmets is not nearly so clear-cut as
you would think, and that the available large scale studies
tend to show that helmet wearers are more, not less, likely
to be injured.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke)
jasmine.org.uk~simonOpen ↗

;; When all else fails, read the
distractions.

In message <[email hidden]>, Vivian
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

I'm new to this group so I don't know if this has been
discussed before.

A Google Groups search for Helmets or Helmet in the subject
in urc returns 1420 posts for this year alone.....

Quoted message said:

Wearing a helmet will become compulsory for under 16's in
the UK. I've read/heard many people complaining that this
will deter people from picking up cycling, as wearing a
helmet implies a dangerous activity.

I totally disagree with this.

What do you guys think?

Nnnnnnnooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!-
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!1
--
Chris French, Leeds

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Vivian

(') said:

I'm new to this group so I don't know if this has been
discussed before.

Oh, no, not again.

I think this issue is just so important that it doesn't
really matter if it keeps getting raised. It has the
potential for having a devasting effect on cycling.
Unfortunately it also has an enormous potential for trolling
:-( But you can always ignore the postings.

Quoted message said:

This group is intensely weary of discussing helmets.

That's *your* opinion, albeit an understandable guess.

John B

On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 22:45:32 +0100, JohnB <[email hidden]> wrote in
message <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This group is intensely weary of discussing helmets.

That's *your* opinion, albeit an understandable guess.

Mine too, I would much rather discuss something positive,
but as you say it is too important to let it by.

--
Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after
posting. chapmancentral.co.ukchapmancentral.co.ukOpen ↗

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at
Washington University

Simon said:

No need to shoot this guy down in flames- it's his
first time!

Welcome to the group!

Seconded.

And anyone who wants to have a helmet rant, have a look
at news.bbc.co.uknews.bbc.co.ukOpen ↗
3623089.stm

Regards,

Pete.

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I'm new to this group so I don't know if this has been
discussed before.

I remember when I was, I wondered the same as well..

Quoted message said:

Wearing a helmet will become compulsory for under 16's
in the UK.

Not yet it won't, and in no small part thanks to some
contributers on here

Quoted message said:

I've read/heard many people complaining that this will
deter people from picking up cycling,

aparently the evidence supports this view...

Quoted message said:

as wearing a helmet implies a dangerous activity.

But possibly not for thsi reason

Quoted message said:

I totally disagree with this.

That's your perojorative. It is simalar to the veiw I held a
few shhort weeks ago. Now, I'm much better read on the
subject and have decided that its a complicated subject, but
compulsion IS a bad thing.

Quoted message said:

What do you guys think?

Lots and lots of conflicting things, on the whole ::~)

Quoted message said:

Nice to be in a UK based newsgroup!
--
Vivian
-------
"We learned more from a three minute record than we ever
learned in school". No Surrender

--
.paul

If at first you don't succeed... Skydiving is probably not
the sport for you.

Quoted message said:

I'm new to this group so I don't know if this has been
discussed before.

Wearing a helmet will become compulsory for under 16's in
the UK. I've read/heard many people complaining that this
will deter people from picking up cycling, as wearing a
helmet implies a dangerous activity.

I totally disagree with this.

What do you guys think?

Due to lots of talking about this, the general consensus of
the group is remarkably similar to what's on the other end
of this link:

ctc.org.ukCTC12ppleafOpen ↗
leta_w.pdf

There're a few (and I think it is only a few) who hold
substantially differing views on either side.

It should be noted that a lot of information provided by pro-
compulsion lobby groups (and then repeated by everyone else)
is incorrect -I think there's a section on it in the link-
so looking critically at the information provided by all
parties in the debate is important.

Anyway, after you've read what's on the other side of the
link you'll know why we think what we think. What I'm
curious about is why you think what you think.

Vivian said:

I'm new to this group so I don't know if this has been
discussed before.

Wearing a helmet will become compulsory for under 16's in
the UK. I've read/heard many people complaining that this
will deter people from picking up cycling, as wearing a
helmet implies a dangerous activity.

I totally disagree with this.

What do you guys think?

I think you are a troll, and not a particularaly clever one.

However, it's possible you're sincere but misguided, in
which case I suggest you try a newsgroup archive (google,
perhaps) and read up about it.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

JohnB said:

Simon Brooke wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Oh, no, not again.

Quoted message said:

I think this issue is just so important that it doesn't
really matter if it keeps getting raised.

True, but that doesn't mean it isn't very dull trotting out
the same lines again and again.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This group is intensely weary of discussing helmets.

Quoted message said:

That's *your* opinion, albeit an understandable guess.

But it *is* very dull trotting out the same lines again and
again, even though I'm prepared to do it. Just because I
feel obliged to wash the dishes doesn't mean I look
forwards to it!

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext.
33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177
Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

I see the helmets as a protection, really. When wearing
seatbelts becase compulsory, did that deter drivers from
buying and driving cars? Don't think so. All the contrary by
the looks of it!! Did the obligatory use of helmets for
motorcyclist reduce their numbers? Nope.

I think we should trust people a bit more, that's all.

Vivian
-------
"We learned more from a three minute record than we ever
learned in school". No Surrender

"Mark Thompson" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm new to this group so I don't know if this has been
discussed before.

Wearing a helmet will become compulsory for under 16's
in the UK. I've read/heard many people complaining that
this will deter people from picking up cycling, as
wearing a helmet implies a dangerous activity.

I totally disagree with this.

What do you guys think?

Due to lots of talking about this, the general consensus
of the group is remarkably similar to what's on the other
end of this link:

ctc.org.ukCTC12ppleafleOpen ↗
ta_w.pdf

There're a few (and I think it is only a few) who hold
substantially differing views on either side.

It should be noted that a lot of information provided by
pro-compulsion lobby groups (and then repeated by everyone
else) is incorrect -I think there's a section on it in the
link- so looking critically at the information provided by
all parties in the debate is important.

Anyway, after you've read what's on the other side of the
link you'll know why we think what we think. What I'm
curious about is why you think what you think.

I thought that a troll was somebody who insulted other
members of the newsgroup. Now, I haven't insulted anyone.
Not yet at least! ;-)

So, I think you should take it back. Really.

Vivian
-------
"We learned more from a three minute record than we ever
learned in school". No Surrender

"Ian Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Vivian said:

I'm new to this group so I don't know if this has been
discussed

before.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Wearing a helmet will become compulsory for under 16's
in the UK. I've read/heard many people complaining that
this will deter people from

picking

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

up cycling, as wearing a helmet implies a dangerous
activity.

I totally disagree with this.

What do you guys think?

I think you are a troll, and not a particularaly
clever one.

However, it's possible you're sincere but misguided, in
which case I suggest you try a newsgroup archive (google,
perhaps) and read up about it.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

This guy? THIS GUY????????????????????????????/ I'M A
WOMAN!!!!!!!

Jeeeeesus.....!!

Vivian
-------
"We learned more from a three minute record than we ever
learned in school". No Surrender

"Simon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

No need to shoot this guy down in flames- it's his
first time!

Welcome to the group!

Simon

www.simonpaddon.com www.coast-coast.info

"Vivian" <[email hidden]> wrote in message -"]news:[email hidden]-
net.net... <snip>

Quoted message said:

I think we should trust people a bit more, that's all.

That's the basic attitude of most people here. We all want
to be trusted to make our own decisions, not have them made
for us. As for it discouraging cycling... *every* country
that has implimented a compulsory helmet policy has since an
instantaneous decrease in the number of cyclists.

Jon

Quoted message said:

I see the helmets as a protection, really.

Protection against what exactly?

I'm like you, I have always *instinctively* felt that
helmets must be A Good Thing, because it *must* be a good
idea to have all that padding on your head, right?

Since joining this newsgroup I have somewhat revised my
opinion so that I now trust my instinct less and the facts
and evidence more.

Quoted message said:

I think we should trust people a bit more, that's all.

I *trust* you have some hard evidence to back up the claims
you have made in your posts - including the ones about car
seatbelts and motorcycle helmets. Yes?

d.

On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:22:21 +0100, "Vivian" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I thought that a troll was somebody who insulted other
members of the newsgroup. Now, I haven't insulted anyone.
Not yet at least! ;-)

So, I think you should take it back. Really.

Then you misunderstand what trolling is. It has nothing to
do with insulting people. Given the recent history of the
group, the timing of your post, and your provocative
assertion that "Wearing a helmet will become compulsory for
under 16's", it had all the hallmarks of a troll. It
appears, however, that you are merely a top-poster.

--
Dave...

Get a bicycle. You will not regret it. If you live. -
Mark Twain