Helmets

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

Chris Malcolm wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Now you mention it, although I've been cycling on and off as basic
transport most years since the age of 12, and am now past 60

Quoted message said:

'struth! Your posts make me feel like an old fogey, and you're twenty years
older than me! I guess I was born middle-aged...

You are younger than me, but I'm also middle-aged.;-)
Beware, a newbie nurse has entered a h****t discussion on
[email hidden]

She was expecting the AE fraternity to be pro and is a tad surprised the
BMA isn't. Bless...

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
Edgware.

Simon Brooke <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

If people want to and it makes them feel more comfortable and confident,

But if it makes them over-confident, they might have a crash they would
have previously avoided...

Quoted message said:

I really don't see the harm in it. The harm is in people claiming that
they are effective in preventing injury when this does not seem to be
the case, and in people trying to bully other people into wearing them.

Watch the newbie nurse elsewhere...

Quoted message said:

I will be wearing a helmet for the time trial this evening... because
it's 'the rules'. Now *that* is a bad thing.

At least you'll probably ride fast enough for the vents to help keep you
cool, BUT you'll ride so fast that the helmet might not protect you
much...

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
Edgware.

Simon Brooke said:

I will be wearing a helmet for the time trial this evening... because
it's 'the rules'. Now *that* is a bad thing.

I thought helmets in TTs were only compulsory for U18s ?

John B

Simon Brooke vaguely muttered something like ...

Quoted message said:

I will be wearing a helmet for the time trial this evening... because
it's 'the rules'. Now *that* is a bad thing.

A lot of competition rules 'these days' seem to be derived from the
consequences of litigation and thus [censored] covering by the organisers ..

As an organiser (partly) of events at which people race, I can be, in a
court of law, held partly responsible for the competitors well-being, even
when those competitors have 'signed on' and thus apparently taken
responsibility for themselves. As a member of the governing body of the
sport I help with I am also often the person at whom the buck stops when I
visit club or regional races. As such I, the governing body and indeed the
local club committees and members must prvide a certain level of protection
for competitors. Helmets, rightly or wrongly, are still seen by the courts
as being a significant safety feature.

--
Paul ...

(8(|) Homer Rules !!!

"A [censored] is a [censored], no matter what mode of transport they're using."

Quoted message said:

I will be wearing a helmet for the time trial this evening... because
it's 'the rules'. Now *that* is a bad thing.

If the event is run under CTT rules, then helmets are only compulsory for the
under 18s.

Here's the actual wording as from the CTT web site

"15 Protective Helmets
All competitors under the age of 18 years and/or Juniors must wear a properly
affixed helmet which must be of hard/soft shell construction. Helmets should
conform to a recognised Standard such as SNELL B95, ANSI Z90.4, AUS/NZS
2063:96, DIN 33-954, CPSC or EN 1078. It is the responsibility of the rider (or
parent or guardian if the rider is under 18 years of age) to:
a Select a Helmet that offers protection against head injury and does not
restrict the rider’s vision or hearing.

b Ensure that the helmet is properly fitted, is undamaged and in good
condition.

Footnotes:
a Any helmet which suffers damage (e.g. in the case of an accident or through
mishandling) may no longer afford the same level of protection.

b Cycling Time Trials makes no warranties or representations regarding the
adequacy of any standard or the fitness for the purpose of any brand of helmet
and will not accept any claims arising from the use of any particular helmet.

c The current British Standard BS 6863 is primarily intended for use by young
riders and is not intended to provide a complete specification for helmets for
high speed or long distance riding."

Saying that, any events I've attended, the vast majority of adult riders wear a
helmet anyhow - seeing a rider without a helmet is more and more unusual -
certainly round these here parts.

Cheers, helen s

--This is an invalid email address to avoid spam--
to get correct one remove fame & fortune
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--Due to financial crisis the light at the end of the tunnel is switched off--

Paul - censored said:

Helmets,
rightly or wrongly, are still seen by the courts as being a
significant safety feature.

ITYM "seen by insurers as a significant way to weasel out of liability". I
am not aware of any court having held that failure to wear a helmet was
irresponsible or counted as contributory negligence.

Coroners' courts don't count, obviously, as they think magic hats are an
acceptable substitute for brakes...

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington
University

in message <[email hidden]>,

dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers (') said:

Quoted message said:

I will be wearing a helmet for the time trial this evening... because
it's 'the rules'. Now *that* is a bad thing.

If the event is run under CTT rules, then helmets are only compulsory
for the under 18s.

Under Scottish Cycling's rules, I'm told (but haven't personally
confirmed) ye hae tae, an' that's that. :-(

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
Das Internet is nicht fuer gefingerclicken und giffengrabben... Ist
nicht fuer gewerken bei das dumpkopfen. Das mausklicken sichtseeren
keepen das bandwit-spewin hans in das pockets muss; relaxen und
watchen das cursorblinken. -- quoted from the jargon file

On 15/9/04 3:35 pm, in article
[email hidden], "Simon Brooke"

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>,

dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers (') said:

Quoted message said:

I will be wearing a helmet for the time trial this evening... because
it's 'the rules'. Now *that* is a bad thing.

If the event is run under CTT rules, then helmets are only compulsory
for the under 18s.

Under Scottish Cycling's rules, I'm told (but haven't personally
confirmed) ye hae tae, an' that's that. :-(

I tend to ride under TLI rules which are far more relaxed.

...d

Just zis Guy, you know? vaguely muttered something like ...

Quoted message said:

Paul - censored said:

Helmets,
rightly or wrongly, are still seen by the courts as being a
significant safety feature.

ITYM "seen by insurers as a significant way to weasel out of liability".

You may be right .. I haven't looked at 'the manual' for a while, but yes,
ISTR it is a stipulation of insurance cover that participants wear
'reasonable' protective gear ... IOW .. Helmets .. 😉

--
Paul ...

(8(|) Homer Rules !!!

"A [censored] is a [censored], no matter what mode of transport they're using."

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Dave Kahn said:

Quoted message said:

I've been riding for about 30 years and not yet fallen from a
stationary bike, though.

Quoted message said:

Actually, I think I've fallen off more times when my bike has been
stationary or hardly moving than otherwise. Yet to bang my head
though, helmeted or otherwise.

Clipless newbie? ;-)

No. I've never been a victim of the standard SPD pratfall though I
have fallen over a few times with old style toe clips and straps done
up tight with cleated shoes. I've also fallen after hitting a car that
pulled out then immediately stopped. I got almost to a halt (with one
brake lever resting on the boot lit at the end of a luvverly scratch)
before falling sideways into the road. I've fallen on ice at less than
walking pace, when catching a wheel on the edge of a ramp when trying
to mount it at less than walking pace, when leaning on things that
have given way, when grinding to a halt after an over-amibitious
climbing attempt in top gear, when track stands have gone wrong, when
moving off from a standstill and losing the pedal or catching my toe
in the front wheel, and when being run into at low speed by another
vehicle after I've managed to stop; and when trying a bike for size
while being held by an incompetent helper.

It sounds like a lot of falls but they're spread over many years.

--
Dave...

David Martin said:

I tend to ride under TLI rules which are far more relaxed.

Don't they still allow the sausage hairnet type helmet?

John B

JohnB said:

David Martin said:

I tend to ride under TLI rules which are far more relaxed.

Don't they still allow the sausage hairnet type helmet?

You could probably ride in anything you want, within reason.

...d

"the.Mark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I went on a paragliding course once. They do make a point of teaching you
how to fall. All the bruises I got that day were from jumping down the

hill

Quoted message said:

and trying to fall without hurting myself. I can't see how this would
transfer to falling off a bike though the main point being keeping the

legs

Quoted message said:

together with the knees slightly bent.

Also keeping your arms folded across your chest. But the point in common is
overcoming instincts to stretch out your hands and risk a broken collar bone
and also to roll rather than splat.

Pete

"the.Mark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I went on a paragliding course once. They do make a point of teaching you
how to fall. All the bruises I got that day were from jumping down the

hill

Quoted message said:

and trying to fall without hurting myself. I can't see how this would
transfer to falling off a bike though the main point being keeping the

legs

Quoted message said:

together with the knees slightly bent.

Also keeping your arms folded across your chest. But the point in common is
overcoming instincts to stretch out your hands and risk a broken collar bone
and also to roll rather than splat.

Pete

"the.Mark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I went on a paragliding course once. They do make a point of teaching you
how to fall. All the bruises I got that day were from jumping down the

hill

Quoted message said:

and trying to fall without hurting myself. I can't see how this would
transfer to falling off a bike though the main point being keeping the

legs

Quoted message said:

together with the knees slightly bent.

Also keeping your arms folded across your chest. But the point in common is
overcoming instincts to stretch out your hands and risk a broken collar bone
and also to roll rather than splat.

Pete

Peter B said:

"the.Mark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I went on a paragliding course once. They do make a point of teaching you
how to fall. All the bruises I got that day were from jumping down the

hill

Quoted message said:

and trying to fall without hurting myself. I can't see how this would
transfer to falling off a bike though the main point being keeping the

legs

Quoted message said:

together with the knees slightly bent.

Quoted message said:

Also keeping your arms folded across your chest. But the point in common is
overcoming instincts to stretch out your hands and risk a broken collar bone
and also to roll rather than splat.

Nothing wrong with stretching out the arms to protect in a fall. The
broken wrist or collarbone happens when you *straighten* the
arm. *That's* the thing to avoid.

But in cases where the head is heading for a heavy impact, then using
the arms as a sacrificial crumple zone in front of it is a rather good
idea. They can soak up a lot more damaging impact than an inch of
polystyrene foam.

--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

Just zis Guy said:

Chris Malcolm wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Do pay attention. He was referring to what you wrote, not you. One
presumes that your opinions are more easily corrected than your
person.

Quoted message said:

The evidence is against you thus far, Chris - he posted a link to the 1989
Thompson, Rivara and Thompson study and apparently thought this would be
news to us!

And looking at some more of his posts, he does seem to take his
opinions rather personally, which makes acquiring an education rather
difficult.

--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

Just zis Guy said:

Chris Malcolm wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Now you mention it, although I've been cycling on and off as basic
transport most years since the age of 12, and am now past 60

Quoted message said:

'struth! Your posts make me feel like an old fogey, and you're twenty years
older than me! I guess I was born middle-aged...

On the internet nobody knows you're an old fart :-)
--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

Quoted message said:

On the internet nobody knows you're an old fart :-)

We do now ;-)

Cheers, helen s

--This is an invalid email address to avoid spam--
to get correct one remove fame & fortune
h*$el*$$e*nd**$o$ts**i*$*$m*m$o*n*s@$*a$o*l.c**$om$

--Due to financial crisis the light at the end of the tunnel is switched off--

[email hidden] (Chris Malcolm)typed

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

'struth! Your posts make me feel like an old fogey, and you're
twenty years
older than me! I guess I was born middle-aged...

Quoted message said:

On the internet nobody knows you're an old fart :-)

Mutton can post as lamb ;-)

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
Edgware.