Grrrrrr8

Greetings,

regarding stop and search, the rules regarding it are very different in
Scotland then England & Wales. Officers I know on G8 attachment from south
of the border have had to do a new training package to familiarise
themselves. I even understand there are circumstances in Scotland, not
present in England and Wales, whereby you can be detained (arrest means
something different in Scottish Law) for failing to provide details, not
just refusing to provide details for the purposes of a summons for a minor
offence. Then there are all the extra powers under the Prevention of
Terrorism Act, etc., etc........... Ho, hum!

T.T.F.N.

SPENNY

"Not Responding" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jon Senior wrote:

police action snipped.

always worth being up to speed on the stop and search rules; as can be
found on most police authority web sites (google's first offering being
this: http://www.wypa.org/section-item.asp?sid=8&iid=128).

I have a copy of these I carry around on a glossy credit card size
pamphlet - usefully issued by the Hants police.

From the West Yorkshire site, I particularly like:

"Do I have to give officers my name and address?

If you are stopped the officers will ask you some simple questions such
as your name, where you live and where you are going. Unless they are
reporting you for a suspected crime, you don't have to give them these
details, but it makes sense to co-operate. If you are innocent you have
nothing to fear."

I can't believe an official document actually uses that last phrase!

Jon Senior said:

Plod: "Evening sir. We're just doing routine checks on anyone in this
area because of the high risk. Would you mind me taking your details"
Me: "Er... yes actually".

A section 60 order is in place over the whole of Edinburgh for this week
which gives the police the power to stop and search for weapons.

I watched them setting up check points on Monday and searched all people
who wished to pass through. They searched all personal items and did not
give a reason other than section 60. They did not mention specific crimes

As previously stated there is interesting info at...
http://g8legalsupport.info/2005/07/05/clarification-on-giving-your-name-address/

It looks likely the police overstepped their powers. There were certainly
a great number of very confused shoppers and tourists getting full body
frisk searches.

Graeme wrote:n

Quoted message said:

Not far wrong. I went to a camping shop in Houston a few years back to get
some spares for my MSR stove. I got a little lost (the place was huge) and
obviously looked rather stunned by the racks and racks of rather large and
scarey looking guns as woman passing by said "Don't worry, these ones
aren't loaded."

And even if they were as long as no-one touched them they couldn't hurt
you...

Once, when almost every home had a gun of some sort, no gun would have
bothered you, only the idiot holding it! Now just the seeing a gun is so
worrying some historical arms displays are being sanitised.

Peewiglet of said:

It's reminiscent of shops who insist on having an address on the back
of a cheque already covered by a cheque guarantee card. Do they really
believe that the fraudsters write down the correct one? Hmmm...

And they are quite willing to take the cheque, when the address I write is
c/o the bank branch printed on the front of the cheque.
--
Democracy is also a form of worship. It is the worship of Jackals by Jackasses.
Henry Louis Mencken
Steph Peters delete invalid from [email hidden]
Tatting, lace & stitching page <http://www.sandbenders.demon.co.uk/index.htm>

On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 09:21:23 +1000 someone who may be dave
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Plod: "Evening sir. We're just doing routine checks on anyone in this
area because of the high risk.

High risk?

People eating bananas may swing by their arms up the bridge.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

dave said:

High risk?

On route from Edinburgh to G8. National landmark. Principle transport route.

Quoted message said:

Good on you.

Just wish I'd read up on the actual regulations. I'd have made life much
harder for them than I did.

Quoted message said:

Oh? You think? Want to hear about the time I was arrested in King Lake
for stealing furniture and electrical goods (on a motorcycle) The
basis for arrest was aparently that I was a stranger and on a motorcycle
and not one cop saw the obvious snag in this theory.

(I bet Steven doesnt either🙂 )

There are some dumb coppers out there. Luckily some dumb crims as well.

<cynic>
They may well be one and the same!
</cynic>

Quoted message said:

And generally some dumb people. If we are talking terrorists and we
are talking the blowing up themselfs type some people might consider
than not terribly bright.

I don't know. If they've got it right, 72 virgins await them in heaven
(Although admittedly, you'll have to drag it out to make that last
eternity!).

Jon

David Hansen said:

You should have asked them on what grounds they wanted your name and
address. http://www.g8legalsupport.info/ has information on this.

Wish I'd read that previously. They'd still be waiting!

Quoted message said:

You should certainly complain to your Councillor and MSP, e-mail
addresses are available. What the police are hoping is that there
will not be a comeback from them abusing their powers. The more
people complain the more they will get the message. The price of
freedom is eternal vigilance. We must constantly protect hard won
freedoms against petty officials that would enslave us.

He he. A letter will be winging it's merry way to Fife tomorrow. I have
no intention of making the complaint via email as the Constabulary say
(In pretty clear terms) that you can expect no response to emails.

Quoted message said:

Simply drive onto the bridge, arrange a "crash", get out and suspend
banners/people from bridge. Easy peasy. They have picked on cyclists
because they think they can get away with it, while they have not
picked on motorists because they think there would be too much
trouble.

Within five minutes of leaving, I had a stack of ideas of how to cause
chaos in the system. At least one of which could be achieved without
actually breaking any laws. Perhaps I should be considering a career
change. :-)

Quoted message said:

Today they were picking on some motorists for the first time,
presumably the ones that didn't look "normal".

I imagine it will have been older cars with many people in them. They
did manage to cause chaos by doing so!

Jon

Jon Senior said:

dave said:

High risk?

On route from Edinburgh to G8. National landmark. Principle transport
route.

Quoted message said:

Good on you.

Just wish I'd read up on the actual regulations. I'd have made life much
harder for them than I did.

Quoted message said:

Oh? You think? Want to hear about the time I was arrested in King
Lake for stealing furniture and electrical goods (on a motorcycle)
The basis for arrest was aparently that I was a stranger and on a
motorcycle and not one cop saw the obvious snag in this theory.

(I bet Steven doesnt either🙂 )

There are some dumb coppers out there. Luckily some dumb crims as well.

<cynic>
They may well be one and the same!
</cynic>

Absolutely true.
Evil ex was actually running part of a taskforce that had the specific
job of investigating a break in on the 11 floor of a police station.

Many police have since been arrested.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And generally some dumb people. If we are talking terrorists and we
are talking the blowing up themselfs type some people might consider
than not terribly bright.

I don't know. If they've got it right, 72 virgins await them in heaven
(Although admittedly, you'll have to drag it out to make that last
eternity!).

72 women. Hmmmmmmm. Thats heaven?

Quoted message said:

Jon

dave said:

Absolutely true.
Evil ex was actually running part of a taskforce that had the specific
job of investigating a break in on the 11 floor of a police station.

Many police have since been arrested.

Note disparity between quanities of drugs seized by C&E and quantity in
custody.

Note separate instances of deaths in custody.

Note police cars currently in the city, exceeding safe speeds for
residential areas (No lights / sirens) and cutting corners.

Note copper who told me that the reason his handwriting was so bad in
his little notebook was that it allowed them to change the story in
court without anyone else being able to read it.

Note the ones who were waiting for a friend when he returned to prison
after succesfully leaving the country while on bail. His mother washed
the blood stains from his T-shirt.

There aren't words in the English language to fully encapsulate my
feelings for the police. (Sniper... if you're around, these are not
directed at you, by your actions you may well be the proverbial diamond
in the rough!)

Quoted message said:

72 women. Hmmmmmmm. Thats heaven?

I don't know if the Koran specifies gender, just sexual experience.
There could be a number of extremely surprised suicide bombers around! ;-)

Jon

Badger <[email hidden]> wrote in news:IdYye.733$EG.210@newsfe5-
gui.ntli.net:

Quoted message said:

Once, when almost every home had a gun of some sort, no gun would have
bothered you, only the idiot holding it!

That's part of the problem I have with guns. I've been on the wrong end of
one with an idiot holding it at the other end.

Graeme

Peter Clinch <[email hidden]> wrote in news:dag8mn$k7v$1
@dux.dundee.ac.uk:

Quoted message said:

All the big outdoor stores I've aver been to in the US (by "big" here
I'm talking B&Q size sheds) have a gun department. And when you
consider the extent to which hunting is a popular outdoor pastime, it's
not surprising

I wasn't surprised by the rifles, after all, they had loads of decoys,
hides, orange camo gear etc. It was the hand guns that surprised me.

Graeme

Jon Senior said:

I don't know if the Koran specifies gender, just sexual experience.
There could be a number of extremely surprised suicide bombers around! ;-)

or...

"I'm not bloody doing *that*! Why do you think I'm still a virgin after
6000 years round here?" ;-)

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Graeme said:

I wasn't surprised by the rifles, after all, they had loads of decoys,
hides, orange camo gear etc. It was the hand guns that surprised me.

That does seem a bit strange in a camping store, but in that part of the
world, like we were saying...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

On 07/07/2005 00:31:21 Jon Senior jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOT_co_DOT_uk said:

dave wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

High risk?

Quoted message said:

On route from Edinburgh to G8. National landmark. Principle transport
route.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Good on you.

Quoted message said:

Just wish I'd read up on the actual regulations. I'd have made life much
harder for them than I did.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Oh? You think? Want to hear about the time I was arrested in King Lake
for stealing furniture and electrical goods (on a motorcycle) The basis
for arrest was aparently that I was a stranger and on a motorcycle and
not one cop saw the obvious snag in this theory.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(I bet Steven doesnt either🙂 )

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

There are some dumb coppers out there. Luckily some dumb crims as well.

Quoted message said:

They may well be one and the same!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And generally some dumb people. If we are talking terrorists and we are
talking the blowing up themselfs type some people might consider than not
terribly bright.

Quoted message said:

I don't know. If they've got it right, 72 virgins await them in heaven
(Although admittedly, you'll have to drag it out to make that last
eternity!).

The Hadith describes them as perpetual virgins.

--

Buck

I would rather be out on my Catrike

http://www.catrike.co.uk

On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 01:16:31 +0100, Jon Senior

jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOT_co_DOT_uk said:

There aren't words in the English language to fully encapsulate my
feelings for the police.

That's a shame. I don't doubt anything you say, but I've met a *lot*
of coppers through my job, and the majority of them were hard-working
chaps who genuinely seemed to want to help society. You get bad apples
in every batch, of course, but if anything it's the system (bizarre
management practices, government interference, public sector inefficiency
etc etc) that screws up coppers.

--
jc

On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 00:36:27 +0100 someone who may be Jon Senior
<jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOT_co_DOT_uk> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

He he. A letter will be winging it's merry way to Fife tomorrow. I have
no intention of making the complaint via email as the Constabulary say
(In pretty clear terms) that you can expect no response to emails.

At the moment I prefer to let my councillor and MSP deal with the
police.

This morning two of these police officers "protecting" the bridge
were leaning on the railing staring at a minesweeper with great
interest. In a way I feel sorry for them, doing something pointless
in order to reassure Daily Mail readers must get boring after a
while.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 09:01:18 GMT someone who may be "Jeremy Collins"
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

That's a shame. I don't doubt anything you say, but I've met a *lot*
of coppers through my job, and the majority of them were hard-working
chaps who genuinely seemed to want to help society.

In my life I have known two people very well who were police
officers. Both excellent people who are entirely trustworthy,
generous and sensible.

One never rose above the rank of Detective Sergeant. The other got
so fed up with the sort of things you mention that he left.

However, it is for the police to improve things, not for others to
put up with their individual and institutional stupidities.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 01:16:31 +0100, Jon Senior

jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOT_co_DOT_uk said:

There aren't words in the English language to fully encapsulate my
feelings for the police.

Rather in the way that some motorists see *some* cyclists jumping red lights,
riding on the pavement and ignoring traffic signs, and allow this to engender
similar sentiments to 'cyclists'.

Buck said:

Quoted message said:

I don't know. If they've got it right, 72 virgins await them in heaven
(Although admittedly, you'll have to drag it out to make that last
eternity!).

The Hadith describes them as perpetual virgins.

Perpetual? So, these virgins are, how can I put this, not going to be coming
across with the full works?

On 07/07/2005 10:54:01 (Steven) said:

On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 08:58:36 GMT, Buck <[email hidden]>
wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I don't know. If they've got it right, 72 virgins await them in heaven
(Although admittedly, you'll have to drag it out to make that last
eternity!).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The Hadith describes them as perpetual virgins.

Quoted message said:

Perpetual? So, these virgins are, how can I put this, not going to be
coming across with the full works?

I think the idea is they are "self repairing".

--

Buck

I would rather be out on my Catrike

http://www.catrike.co.uk