Greg Lemond on doping problems...

[Frank Drackman]

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
>> I don't know him at all but it sure seems that he needs constant
>> attention from the media. He managed to make sure that he was a central
>> part of both the LA bonus arbitration and the FL doping hearing.
>>
>> What are the chances that FL would confess to Greg in a phone call after
>> he already knew how Greg had represented the telephone call he had with
>> LA concerning doping?
>
> And what are the chances that FL would not only hire someone who would
> make a phony, sick phone call to Greg, during the arbitration hearings...
> pretty darned slim. Even slimmer would be the chances that FL would
> overhear such a call and not put a stop to it immediately. And yet it
> happened.
>

I don't know FL at all, but from how his personality has been portrayed it
seems that he has never matured beyond the 10th grade. I can easily see the
call, and FL not doing anything about it until caught, happening but have a
much harder time with Greg's version of the call.

 

[Tom Kunich]

"Tony S." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:OYeBi.572$J65.473@trndny08...
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> You don't ride bicycles do you?
>
> For 30+ years. Ok, I overstated the pain, which would come more rarely in
> certain race conditions, but all that time on the bike - or in any
> endurance sport - is mentally tough, not in a challenging way, but in a
> deadening way. As someone who has done ultramarathons, and has also ridden
> many long bike rides, this is my theory anyway.

Theories are fine when you state them as such. However, these guys are not
riding to their maximum output most of the time and they're thinking a mile
a minute. The best riders are playing chess with their chances.

 

[Tom Kunich]

"Donald Munro" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> cyclintom wrote:
>> You're missing his main point. If you put a gun in Hizarks hands and
>> put him in a room full of puppies he would kill them all.
>
> Only if the puppies were alleged to have taken a banned substance.

Only if he imagined that the puppies might have been alleged to have used
banned substances.

 

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

>> For 30+ years. Ok, I overstated the pain, which would come more rarely in
>> certain race conditions, but all that time on the bike - or in any
>> endurance sport - is mentally tough, not in a challenging way, but in a
>> deadening way. As someone who has done ultramarathons, and has also
>> ridden many long bike rides, this is my theory anyway.
>
> Theories are fine when you state them as such. However, these guys are not
> riding to their maximum output most of the time and they're thinking a
> mile a minute. The best riders are playing chess with their chances.

Wrong game, Tom. Think Russian Roulette.

Chess implies more thought than their actions indicate. It's hard to believe
people would put themselves in a position where they might receive someone
else's blood. Do you think it likely that Vino gave much thought to the
possibility of getting Keschekins' (I'm sure I botched that spelling) blood,
or was he more concerned about the idea that he could get caught? My guess
is the latter.

Wrong game, Tom. Think Russian Roulette.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

 

[Hobbes@spnb&s.com]

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:17:11 -0700, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:

>"Donald Munro" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> cyclintom wrote:
>>> You're missing his main point. If you put a gun in Hizarks hands and
>>> put him in a room full of puppies he would kill them all.
>>
>> Only if the puppies were alleged to have taken a banned substance.
>
>Only if he imagined that the puppies might have been alleged to have used
>banned substances.

Sonsabitches'd deserve it.

Ron

 

[Michael Press]

In article
<[email protected]>,
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote:

> >> For 30+ years. Ok, I overstated the pain, which would come more rarely in
> >> certain race conditions, but all that time on the bike - or in any
> >> endurance sport - is mentally tough, not in a challenging way, but in a
> >> deadening way. As someone who has done ultramarathons, and has also
> >> ridden many long bike rides, this is my theory anyway.
> >
> > Theories are fine when you state them as such. However, these guys are not
> > riding to their maximum output most of the time and they're thinking a
> > mile a minute. The best riders are playing chess with their chances.
>
> Wrong game, Tom. Think Russian Roulette.
>
> Chess implies more thought than their actions indicate. It's hard to believe
> people would put themselves in a position where they might receive someone
> else's blood. Do you think it likely that Vino gave much thought to the
> possibility of getting Keschekins' (I'm sure I botched that spelling) blood,
> or was he more concerned about the idea that he could get caught? My guess
> is the latter.
>
> Wrong game, Tom. Think Russian Roulette.

Yes. All of that is a potlatch.
Who will sacrifice the most to
be acknowledged the winner.

--
Michael Press

 

[Michael Press]

In article
<[email protected]>,
[email protected] wrote:

> On Aug 28, 12:04 am, Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]> wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > Kyle Legate <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > Frank Drackman wrote:
> >
> > > > What are the chances that FL would confess to Greg in a phone call after he
> > > > already knew how Greg had represented the telephone call he had with LA
> > > > concerning doping?
> >
> > > Floyd didn't confess to Greg over the phone, but his guilt was implied:
> >
> > > Greg: "If you have done something wrong, it's best to confess."
> > > Floyd: "What good would it do?"
> >
> > I'm very tetchy about reading an implied confession into that. I
> > understand what you're getting at, and yes, the proper response of an
> > innocent rider might be more like "I didn't do anything! What do I do
> > now?"
>
> Not if LeMond had implied that Floyd should "confess" whether he'd
> doped or not just to get it behind him. You've seen LeMond's quotes
> more than once. Does that guy strike you as making a lot of sense?

His brain is so fried with drugs that their is no reason to
even ask if he is or could be making sense.

--
Michael Press

 

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

>> Chess implies more thought than their actions indicate. It's hard to
>> believe
>> people would put themselves in a position where they might receive
>> someone
>> else's blood. Do you think it likely that Vino gave much thought to the
>> possibility of getting Keschekins' (I'm sure I botched that spelling)
>> blood,
>> or was he more concerned about the idea that he could get caught? My
>> guess
>> is the latter.
>>
>> Wrong game, Tom. Think Russian Roulette.
>
> Yes. All of that is a potlatch.
> Who will sacrifice the most to
> be acknowledged the winner.

Do you think these guys are even thinking about "sacrifice?" That implies
something somehow noble and purposeful. I don't think that's it at all. I've
never read anything amongst the confessionals lately saying "I knew I was
putting my life at risk, doing what I was doing, but the end justified the
means."

These guys are just simply looking for a way to get ahead, or keep from
getting left behind, period. There's nothing noble involved, no great amount
of thought. The "winner" isn't the guy who sacrificed the most, but rather
the guy who managed to get the max benefit without getting caught. Strategic
doping. Points for technique and ingenuity (not necessarily on the part of
the racer, other than knowing the right person). No points for "sacrifice.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

 

[Charles]

On Aug 28, 7:36 am, RonSonic <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 07:46:32 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
> >On Aug 27, 6:35 am, Hobbes@spnb&s.com wrote:
> >> The reason Disco walked off is that the hysterical, lawless antidoping hysteria
> >> has made it impossible for them to obtain a sponsor. The situation is so insane
> >> that they could not in good faith even promise that they would be able to enter
> >> next year's Tour as a team.
>
> >Well, they claim that they had a prospective sponsor but that they
> >purposely decided to close shop because of what appeared to be a
> >threat to any sponsors. I would have taken the same position. What's
> >happening now is a direct attack on anyone that would sponsor cycling.
> >What's pitiful is that LeMond is leading the charge. Apparently after
> >starting the million dollar contracts he now wants to eliminate them.
>
> >> All it takes is, what? Someone at ASO not liking something about you, or going
> >> with national teams or some history about Contador and they aren't invited.
>
> >Cycle racing is about to go into the dumper again now that they've
> >finally risen to the level of a REAL(tm) professional sport.
>
> >> Who's going to invest $15,000,000 into a team under the present system.
>
> >> Thanks for helping the riders out, Greg. The calm and perspective a cooler,
> >> older head can provide is really going to help the sport.
>
> >Well, it's always hard to get a clear picture of what someone is like
> >from headlines but I'm beginning to doubt the motivation of LeMond.
>
> All I can think is that he's so zeroed in on the dope angle that he doesn't see
> the damage. He claims to see the damage from doping (whatever the hell that
> might look like) but can't see that chaos and instability and schoolyard
> behavior is worse.
>
> Ron- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Greg, SHUT UP !!

 

[Michael Press]

In article <[email protected]>,
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote:

> >> Chess implies more thought than their actions indicate. It's hard to
> >> believe
> >> people would put themselves in a position where they might receive
> >> someone
> >> else's blood. Do you think it likely that Vino gave much thought to the
> >> possibility of getting Keschekins' (I'm sure I botched that spelling)
> >> blood,
> >> or was he more concerned about the idea that he could get caught? My
> >> guess
> >> is the latter.
> >>
> >> Wrong game, Tom. Think Russian Roulette.
> >
> > Yes. All of that is a potlatch.
> > Who will sacrifice the most to
> > be acknowledged the winner.
>
> Do you think these guys are even thinking about "sacrifice?" That implies
> something somehow noble and purposeful. I don't think that's it at all. I've
> never read anything amongst the confessionals lately saying "I knew I was
> putting my life at risk, doing what I was doing, but the end justified the
> means."
>
> These guys are just simply looking for a way to get ahead, or keep from
> getting left behind, period. There's nothing noble involved, no great amount
> of thought. The "winner" isn't the guy who sacrificed the most, but rather
> the guy who managed to get the max benefit without getting caught. Strategic
> doping. Points for technique and ingenuity (not necessarily on the part of
> the racer, other than knowing the right person). No points for "sacrifice.

I do not consider sacrifice to be a good thing, particularly
when it is competitive sacrificing. Please do not read into
this that I consider self-interest the foremost good.

--
Michael Press