Gallbladder surgery

"toby jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Mark Probert-February 29, 2004" <Mark [email hidden]>

wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"toby jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

? (I am one of your readers who are less than fluent in medical
terminology.)

You can try these two links for medical terms:

www.m-w.com

or, my favorite...

http://www.probertencyclopaedia.com/

Thanks, though M-W does not always deliver on medical terms. It's a
bit hit-and-miss.

True. So is the Probert Encyclopedia.

However, I did look a bit gfurther and found:

http://www.medical-dictionary.com/

"toby jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Mark Probert-February 29, 2004" <Mark [email hidden]>

wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"toby jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Orac <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>
> Wrong. I understand it FAR better than you do. Also, it isn't what

is

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Quoted message said:

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> unknown that is at issue here, it's what should be done with

treatments

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> whose efficacy is unknown.

Why do you stress 'efficacy' rather than 'safety'?

Do you understand that for many who go in search of alternative
solutions, safety is far and away the more serious concern?

And that for some of them, this is because of having had unfortunate
exeriences from within the medical system.

Yes, the treatment was 100% safe, and the patient died.

Not if the patient's condition was mild, and chronic, rather than at
any acute stage.

You may make that distinction, but the charlatans who sell such things a
chelation for ASHD, etc. do not. In those cases, the bodies can pile up.

"Mark Probert-March 2, 2004" <Mark [email hidden]>
wrote in news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Why do you stress 'efficacy' rather than 'safety'?
>
> Do you understand that for many who go in search of alternative
> solutions, safety is far and away the more serious concern?
>
> And that for some of them, this is because of having had
> unfortunate exeriences from within the medical system.

Yes, the treatment was 100% safe, and the patient died.

Not if the patient's condition was mild, and chronic, rather than at
any acute stage.

You may make that distinction, but the charlatans who sell such things
a chelation for ASHD, etc. do not. In those cases, the bodies can pile
up.

There's something that's puzzling me about Toby's statement. If someone is
concerned mostly about safety and not much about efficacy, then surely the
safest "alternative" is to do nothing at all. After all, everything a
person can do carries some risk; when we say something is "safe" we don't
normally mean "zero risk"; we mean "only very slight risk." We normally
take risks because we expect benefits to outweigh the risks. But if you
don't care about the benefits from an "alternative solution" (how can you
even call it a "solution" if it isn't efficacious), then why take even the
tiny risk?

I think the answer is really that the people Toby describes are simply
looking for rituals to perform rather than an actual treatment. I suspect
they've got unmet spiritual or religious needs and they're trying to meet
them through a ritualization of health matters. Or they're simply working
from the conviction that doing something, anything is always better than
doing nothing.

May be so but the techniques usually work better than the chem/cut doctor's
poisons and it bugs the hell out of them that most of the natural
practicioners have more education than them.

"Eric Bohlman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Mark Probert-March 2, 2004" <Mark [email hidden]>
wrote in news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > Why do you stress 'efficacy' rather than 'safety'?
> >
> > Do you understand that for many who go in search of alternative
> > solutions, safety is far and away the more serious concern?
> >
> > And that for some of them, this is because of having had
> > unfortunate exeriences from within the medical system.
>
> Yes, the treatment was 100% safe, and the patient died.

Not if the patient's condition was mild, and chronic, rather than at
any acute stage.

You may make that distinction, but the charlatans who sell such things
a chelation for ASHD, etc. do not. In those cases, the bodies can pile
up.

There's something that's puzzling me about Toby's statement. If someone

is

Quoted message said:

concerned mostly about safety and not much about efficacy, then surely the
safest "alternative" is to do nothing at all. After all, everything a
person can do carries some risk; when we say something is "safe" we don't
normally mean "zero risk"; we mean "only very slight risk." We normally
take risks because we expect benefits to outweigh the risks. But if you
don't care about the benefits from an "alternative solution" (how can you
even call it a "solution" if it isn't efficacious), then why take even the
tiny risk?

I think the answer is really that the people Toby describes are simply
looking for rituals to perform rather than an actual treatment. I suspect
they've got unmet spiritual or religious needs and they're trying to meet
them through a ritualization of health matters. Or they're simply working
from the conviction that doing something, anything is always better than
doing nothing.

In article <[email hidden]>,
"Mark Probert-March 2, 2004" <Mark [email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"toby jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Mark Probert-February 29, 2004" <Mark [email hidden]>

wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"toby jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Do you understand that for many who go in search of alternative
> solutions, safety is far and away the more serious concern?
>
> And that for some of them, this is because of having had unfortunate
> exeriences from within the medical system.

Yes, the treatment was 100% safe, and the patient died.

Not if the patient's condition was mild, and chronic, rather than at
any acute stage.

You may make that distinction, but the charlatans who sell such things a
chelation for ASHD, etc. do not. In those cases, the bodies can pile up.

Indeed. Nor do quacks like Hulda Clark, who sells a bogus "theory" about
the cause of cancer and AIDS and equally bogus "cures" for these
diseases.

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"

In article <[email hidden]>,

Gymmy Bob said:

May be so but the techniques usually work better than the chem/cut doctor's
poisons and it bugs the hell out of them that most of the natural
practicioners have more education than them.

Really? Which "techniques" work better than surgery and drugs, and for
what diseases? How do you know? What is the objective evidence that
these "techniques "work better" than surgery and drugs? What is the
success rate of these "techniques" and how was it determined?

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"

In article <[email hidden]>,

(toby jones) said:

From: "Orac" <[email hidden]>
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 11:45 AM
Subject: Re: Gallbladder surgery

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] (toby jones) wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Also, it isn't what is unknown that is at issue here, it's what should
> be done with treatments whose efficacy is unknown.

Why do you stress 'efficacy' rather than 'safety'?

I don't. The two must be balanced.

ok

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Do you understand that for many who go in search of alternative
solutions, safety is far and away the more serious concern?

Two problems with such a statement: First, not all alt-med therapies are
actually "safe."

I did not mean to suggest that they were. However, compared with
risks associated with surgery, for example, including the possibility
of unnecessary surgery and consequences from that, many alt approaches
involve rather less risk.

Most of them also involve considerably less efficacy as well.

Quoted message said:

And many are considered preventative rather than cures. This means
that someone may wish to try the "stone flush" or whatever, not as a
cure for a disease but as part of a general health-improvement
program.

Of course, the beauty of that, as far as alties are concerned, is that
if they stay healthy they can claim it was their "preventatives" that
did it, whether there is actually any objective evidence that the
"preventative" actually prevents any disease!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Second, taking something that is "safe" but ineffective
is no better than taking nothing at all and letting the disease run its
course.

That sounds self-evident, but it is not that simple.
(And wasn't there are a recent study showing noticable _placebo_
effects?)

Placebo effects usually do not involve objective improvements in
clinical condition (tumor regression, for instance, or regression of
atherosclerotic plaques in blood vessels). They involve the patient
feeling better, whether his disease process is actually affected or not.
That may not always be a bad thing, but don't confuse placebo effect
with true efficacy.

Quoted message said:

People trying out alt therapies usually try several, whether
sequentially or at the same time.
And in many cases they _are_ happy with the overall results; they
find that "something" worked, for them. They find various health
improvements.

Or, more commonly, they think they find various health improvements.

Quoted message said:

Also, our understanding of what may have an effect in regard to
health, changes over time. In accordance with that, adjustments are
made, such as, for example, the fortification of breakfast cereals
with vitamins.

Which is more of a marketing gimmick for cereal companies more than
anything else.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

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And that for some of them, this is because of having had unfortunate
exeriences from within the medical system.

That is unfortunate for them. However, such bad experiences do not mean
we should not challenge them when they make unsupported assertions about
how great they think various alt-med therapies are.

Most certainly, - question, and find out what was really happening, if
someone is making outrageous claims of "success" with something that
should have had no effect.

That is really all I do. However, some alties react rather violently
even to relatively mild skepticism.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Unfortunate
experiences within the conventional medical system do not give them a
free pass when they spout pseudoscientific nonsense.

The one does not follow automatically from the other.

I never said it did. However, on this newsgroup, it does often enough.

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Gallbladder surgery
From: Eric Bohlman [email hidden]
Date: 3/2/2004 3:53 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

<snip ramblings of Mark Probert>

Quoted message said:

I think the answer is really that the people Toby describes are simply
looking for rituals to perform rather than an actual treatment.

I think you have lost it. That is totally absurd.

Quoted message said:

I suspect
they've got unmet spiritual or religious needs and they're trying to meet
them through a ritualization of health matters

I think you [censored] experience has screwed up your brain.

Quoted message said:

Or they're simply working
from the conviction that doing something, anything is always better than
doing nothing.

I think your hate is showing.

Jan

Cue for Liar, badger, stalker. Richard H Jacobson to appears, just watch *l*

Rich is a cyberstalker and he has been stalking Jan for a long time. John Bain

[email hidden] (Jan) wrote:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

I think you [censored] experience has screwed up your brain.

<snip>

Then she says:

Quoted message said:

I think your hate is showing.

Not that Jan hates "homos", of course.

--
Peter Bowditch
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
The Green Light http://www.ratbags.com/greenlight
and The New Improved Quintessence of the Loon with added Vitamins and C-Q10 http://www.ratbags.com/loon
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Gallbladder surgery
From: Peter Bowditch [email hidden]
Date: 3/2/2004 9:26 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

[email hidden] (Jan) wrote:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

I think you [censored] experience has screwed up your brain.

<snip>

Then she says:

Quoted message said:

I think your hate is showing.

Not that Jan hates "homos", of course

I think Peter is not a bit mad because I proved he is a total hypocrite with NO
medical qualiification.

For the record, I hate no one.

Furthermore this snipping was to change the meaning.

Came right back and bit cha!

Jan

[email hidden] (Jan) wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Gallbladder surgery
From: Eric Bohlman [email hidden]
Date: 3/2/2004 3:53 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

<snip ramblings of Mark Probert>

Quoted message said:

I think the answer is really that the people Toby describes are simply
looking for rituals to perform rather than an actual treatment.

I think you have lost it. That is totally absurd.

How so, if they don't care whether or not it's effective?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I suspect
they've got unmet spiritual or religious needs and they're trying to
meet them through a ritualization of health matters

I think you [censored] experience has screwed up your brain.

OK Jan, that was an *utterly standard* Usenet flametroll response. You've
now *fully* convinced me that you do *not* have comprehension problems.
You merely fake them in order to get a rise out of people. You are nothing
but a run-of-the-mill Usenet troll. In fact, I'm no longer fully convinced
that you actually hold anti-semitic beliefs. I think you make anti-semitic
statements simply because you know they'll provoke quite a response.
You're just after attention, and you use bigoted language much the way a
little kid might use the f-word because it gives him a sense of power to
see how he can make parents/teachers/etc. lose their cool.

I'm not the only one here to observe that you have a pattern of trying to
provoke people here into losing their temper and stooping to your level,
and when you do you cry victim. That's simply the behavior of a little kid
with poor social skills.

I am *really, really* glad to see that you threw a typical piece of
net.trash-talk at me. It said a *lot* more about you then it did about me,
and confirmed my beliefs about where you're coming from.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Or they're simply working
from the conviction that doing something, anything is always better
than doing nothing.

I think your hate is showing.

Non-sequitur, but now I understand why.

Quoted message said:

Jan

Cue for Liar, badger, stalker. Richard H Jacobson to appears, just
watch *l*

Rich is a cyberstalker and he has been stalking Jan for a long time.
John Bain

And now I understand why you wrote this. You're just trying to provoke
Rich, that's all. You don't really hold a grudge against him. You just
pretend to.

On 3 Mar 2004 08:00:16 GMT, Eric Bohlman <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (Jan) wrote in

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I think you [censored] experience has screwed up your brain.

OK Jan, that was an *utterly standard* Usenet flametroll response. You've
now *fully* convinced me that you do *not* have comprehension problems.
You merely fake them in order to get a rise out of people. You are nothing
but a run-of-the-mill Usenet troll. In fact, I'm no longer fully convinced
that you actually hold anti-semitic beliefs. I think you make anti-semitic
statements simply because you know they'll provoke quite a response.

I disagree with your assessment of Jan Drew. While I agree that she
does not have a comprehension problems and instead pretends not to
understand, I don't think she is a troll who is motivated to get a
rise out of people just for the sport of it or to gratify some
pathologic need.

The reason why Jan Drew hangs out in this newsgroup is because she is
a shill for alternative medicine. And her motivation for shilling for
AM is her rage at conventional medicine for not indulging her somatic
hypervigilance. Her primary aim is to promote AM while simultaneously
trashing conventional medicine.

Toward her goal, Jan wants to silence her opponents and keep them from
confronting her. She can achieve this by badgering people til they
cannot stand it anymore and either leave the group or put her in their
kill file. In either case Jan gets them off her case. This is her aim
and why she badgers people to get them [censored]. It is not just to get
attention IMO.

Quoted message said:

You're just after attention, and you use bigoted language much the way a
little kid might use the f-word because it gives him a sense of power to
see how he can make parents/teachers/etc. lose their cool.

I think Jan Drew is truly a closeminded, bigoted antisemite.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Jan

Cue for Liar, badger, stalker. Richard H Jacobson to appears, just
watch *l*

Rich is a cyberstalker and he has been stalking Jan for a long time.
John Bain

And now I understand why you wrote this. You're just trying to provoke
Rich, that's all. You don't really hold a grudge against him. You just
pretend to.

No. She holds a grudge against me. After all, I exposed her *lies* wrt
her amalgam history. She is really [censored] at me.

And she is trying to get me [censored] at her and drive me off. I have
been in this group since soon after this group was organized (well
over ten years ago) and Jan is a lightweight compared to some of the
lunatics of the past.

Jan is frustrated that her tactics have not resulted in my ignoring
her. But you cannot say that she does not try. If Jan put as much
energy into her personal life as she does in badgering people in this
newsgroup she might have had some success in her life. But alas. Sad
that.

Aloha,

Rich
-------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------

The best defense to logic is ignorance

(Jan) said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Gallbladder surgery
From: Peter Bowditch [email hidden]
Date: 3/2/2004 9:26 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

[email hidden] (Jan) wrote:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

I think you [censored] experience has screwed up your brain.

<snip>

Then she says:

Quoted message said:

I think your hate is showing.

Not that Jan hates "homos", of course

I think Peter is not a bit mad because I proved he is a total hypocrite with NO
medical qualiification.

For the record, I hate no one.

Furthermore this snipping was to change the meaning.

Came right back and bit cha!

Jan

The snipping was done to show your hypocrisy. I left two complete
sentences, which just happened to be the two sentences which
contradicted each other. You used "[censored]" as a derogatory term and then
you accused someone of hatred.

--
Peter Bowditch
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
The Green Light http://www.ratbags.com/greenlight
and The New Improved Quintessence of the Loon with added Vitamins and C-Q10 http://www.ratbags.com/loon
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Gallbladder surgery
From: Eric Bohlman [email hidden]
Date: 3/3/2004 12:00 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

[email hidden] (Jan) wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Gallbladder surgery
From: Eric Bohlman [email hidden]
Date: 3/2/2004 3:53 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

<snip ramblings of Mark Probert>

Quoted message said:

I think the answer is really that the people Toby describes are simply
looking for rituals to perform rather than an actual treatment.

I think you have lost it. That is totally absurd.

How so,

People with health problems are NOT looking for rituals, that's absurd.

if they don't care whether or not it's effective?

They DO care, you are being further absurd.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I suspect

Quoted message said:

they've got unmet spiritual or religious needs and they're trying to
meet them through a ritualization of health matters

I think you [censored] experience has screwed up your brain.

Quoted message said:

OK Jan, that was an *utterly standard* Usenet flametroll response.

And what was YOUR statements?????

Quoted message said:

You've now *fully* convinced me that you do *not* have comprehension

problems.

LOL! You seem to think you can be asburd with total garbage and everyone should
remian silent.

Quoted message said:

You merely fake them in order to get a rise out of people

I have never been into faking!!! I am a straight shooter.

Quoted message said:

You are nothing
but a run-of-the-mill Usenet troll

000000000000000000000000000000

Quoted message said:

In fact, I'm no longer fully convinced
that you actually hold anti-semitic beliefs. I think you make anti-semitic
statements simply because you know they'll provoke quite a response.

My, my Eric, what do you think you were doing??

What is good for the goose is good for the gander, and all.

Quoted message said:

You're just after attention

LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!

I will not sit here and take such total garbage as you just gave.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I think the answer is really that the people Toby describes are simply
looking for rituals to perform rather than an actual treatment.

TROLLISH!!

Quoted message said:

I suspect they've got unmet spiritual or religious needs and they're trying

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

meet them through a ritualization of health matters

TROLLISH!!!

Quoted message said:

and you use bigoted language much the way

ZZzz.

I think you [censored] experience has screwed up your brain.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

much the way a
little kid might use the f-word because it gives him a sense of power to
see how he can make parents/teachers/etc. lose their cool.

My dear Eric, you can dish it out but you can't take it.

Quoted message said:

I'm not the only one here to observe that you have a pattern of trying to
provoke people here into losing their temper and stooping to your level,

Yes, it appears you have fully joined the *gang*.

Quoted message said:

and when you do you cry victim.

More borrowed from the *gang*.

Quoted message said:

That's simply the behavior of a little kid
with poor social skills.

No it is simply dishing it back to you because your statements were TOTALLY
ABSURD AND BELITTLING!!

Quoted message said:

I am *really, really* glad to see that you threw a typical piece of
net.trash-talk at me. It said a *lot* more about you then it did about me,
and confirmed my beliefs about where you're coming from.

B I N G O!! You just described YOUR words.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Or they're simply working

Quoted message said:

from the conviction that doing something, anything is always better
than doing nothing.

Quoted message said:

I think your hate is showing.

Quoted message said:

Non-sequitur,

Nope, the truth.

Your post was aburd, and you have NO actual experience with an unanswered
health problem.

I can assure you words such as rituals rather than treatment, and spiritual or
religious needs are totally FALSE AND BELITTLING.

Jan

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Gallbladder surgery
From: Eric Bohlman [email hidden]
Date: 3/3/2004 12:00 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

<snip the already covered>

Sorry, I didn't read the last lines.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Cue for Liar, badger, stalker. Richard H Jacobson to appears, just
watch *l*

Rich is a cyberstalker and he has been stalking Jan for a long time.
John Bain

Quoted message said:

And now I understand why you wrote this. You're just trying to provoke
Rich, that's all.

Nope, I am just showing his pattern which started long before me.

Quoted message said:

You don't really hold a grudge against him. You just pretend to.

Wrong. The man has a problem, that's why nuked his posts, he has cyberstalked
others who have had success with alternative medicine. He is so obessed he even
suggest the poster send their medical records to him.

His aim was to run them off, he did, except for me, who has exposed his lies.

Speaking of pretending, I guess you just haven't noticed.

Yep. sure thing.

http://tinyurl.com/39u2g

Jan

[email hidden] (Jan) wrote:

<snipperoony>

Quoted message said:

I think you [censored] experience has screwed up your brain.

<more snippage>

Then Jan said:

No it is simply dishing it back to you because your statements were TOTALLY
ABSURD AND BELITTLING!!

But referring to someone's "[censored] experience" is OK?

She refers occasionally to "Barrett's parrots". Perhaps she has become
one of the Phelps whelps.

--
Peter Bowditch
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
The Green Light http://www.ratbags.com/greenlight
and The New Improved Quintessence of the Loon with added Vitamins and C-Q10 http://www.ratbags.com/loon
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Gallbladder surgery
From: Eric Bohlman [email hidden]
Date: 3/2/2004 3:53 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

<snip ramblings of Mark Probert>

Translation: Jan has no facts to refute my statements.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I think the answer is really that the people Toby describes are simply
looking for rituals to perform rather than an actual treatment.

I think you have lost it. That is totally absurd.

Not really. You do the same thing.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I suspect
they've got unmet spiritual or religious needs and they're trying to meet
them through a ritualization of health matters

I think you [censored] experience has screwed up your brain.

I think you are a bigot.

I just lied, again. I KNOW you are a bigot.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Or they're simply working
from the conviction that doing something, anything is always better than
doing nothing.

I think your hate is showing.

Sweetums, your hate and bigotry is showing big time in this one message.

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Gallbladder surgery
From: Peter Bowditch [email hidden]
Date: 3/2/2004 9:26 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

[email hidden] (Jan) wrote:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

I think you [censored] experience has screwed up your brain.

<snip>

Then she says:

Quoted message said:

I think your hate is showing.

Not that Jan hates "homos", of course

I think Peter is not a bit mad because I proved he is a total hypocrite

with NO

Quoted message said:

medical qualiification.

For the record, I hate no one.

Cue Jan to deny that she knows that "[censored]" is a bigoted derogatory word like
"Jew Boy."

Quoted message said:

Furthermore this snipping was to change the meaning.

Quoted message said:

Came right back and bit cha!

No, it came right back and showed, again, what a bigot you are.

One your day of reckoning, this post wil be read to you.

2004' Mark said:

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I think you [censored] experience has screwed up your brain.

I think you are a bigot.

Cue Jan to repost quotes from the bible which she feels justifies her
homophobic comments.

Aloha,

Rich

-------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------

The best defense to logic is ignorance

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Jan) said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Gallbladder surgery
From: Eric Bohlman [email hidden]
Date: 3/2/2004 3:53 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

<snip ramblings of Mark Probert>

Quoted message said:

I think the answer is really that the people Toby describes are simply
looking for rituals to perform rather than an actual treatment.

I think you have lost it. That is totally absurd.

Quoted message said:

I suspect
they've got unmet spiritual or religious needs and they're trying to meet
them through a ritualization of health matters

I think you [censored] experience has screwed up your brain.

Why would a "[censored] experience" screw up anybody's brain?

You don't hate homosexuals, do you, Jan?

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"