Falling apart

In article <[email hidden]>,

(The Queen of Cans and Jars) said:

Luna said:

I find it extremely insulting and cruel for you to dismiss my real, actual
thoughts and feelings about what is really going on in my life as just some
story I've just concocted in order to create drama.

i didn't start out giving you a hard time about this. i offered you
support: i told you that i think you need therapy, and i was sincere
about that. my opinion still stands.

I know, you're right. I should give you credit for that. Even though it
was crappy, clichéd advice, it was well meant.

You started the insults when I said I didn't get a choice in which
therapist I saw at the state clinic. The condescending "you're an adult
now" as if that means I automatically have enough money for private
therapy, and "you don't have enough insight to solve your own problems."
And I didn't snap back at you even though you were being a [censored] there, I
let it slide. Until you repeated it to someone else, again being
condescending with your arrogant "I have a pretty good idea of her level of
insight." And that's when you implied that my situation was [censored] and
nothing more than a constant need for drama. And that comment tarnished my
view of you and threw into question the motivations for everything you say,
even when you're supposedly being "genuine." It's like that old joke "Man,
you can be a respected citizen for decades, but if you [censored] just one pig
you get called 'pigfucker' for the rest of your life."

--
Michelle Levin
http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick

I have only 3 flaws. My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws.

Lorelei, you sound like you're keeping it together pretty admirably,
considering everything. I wish I had magic powers to help you instead
of only my respect and sympathy to type into a computer.

Best,

T.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

JC Der Koenig said:

I started smoking when I was 8 years old. I quit 20 years later.

There is not try, only do or not do.

8 years old??? You must have grown up very fast!

Actually, I'm pretty sure it stunted his growth (especially his mental growth).

--
Saffire
205/149/125 - 5'1.5"
Atkins since 6/14/03
Progress photo: http://photos.yahoo.com/saffire333

Just think of how smart I would have been.

--
Now [censored]. You cannot possibly be this stupid and remember to
breathe. You must be trolling. -- Carmen

"Saffire" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]

says...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

JC Der Koenig said:

I started smoking when I was 8 years old. I quit 20 years later.

There is not try, only do or not do.

8 years old??? You must have grown up very fast!

Actually, I'm pretty sure it stunted his growth (especially his mental

growth).

Quoted message said:

--
Saffire
205/149/125 - 5'1.5"
Atkins since 6/14/03
Progress photo: http://photos.yahoo.com/saffire333

"The Queen of Cans and Jars" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Luna said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

(The Queen of Cans and Jars) said:

Luna <[email hidden]> wrote:

> When has QoC&J ever supported anyone, ever? Since she has

everything

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> in life all figured out already, and hasn't ever had any internal
> struggles to fight, she thinks anyone who does is just looking for
> drama. She can't say something like "I've been there, I know it
> sucks, here's how I handled it" because she _hasn't_ been there.

you don't know anything about my life, michelle. you don't have any
idea where i have and haven't been.

I know just as much about your life as you do about my level of insight,
whether or not I need therapy, how difficult it is for me to quit

smoking,

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and whether I am posting here because I need support or I'm just

"seeking

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drama." I have just as much of a right to make inferences, guesses, and
judgments about you as you do about me.

i've posted far, far less about my personal life than you have.

think about it.

What is THAT supposed to infer? That you are hiding something? That you
fear showing vulnerability to anyone? That can be just as neurotic in its
causes and effects as spilling ones guts to everyone can be. Not that
Michelle spilled her guts to everyone much at all.

She posted a perfectly legitimate diet related question. It isn't that she
is nuts, it isn't a need for drama. She asked and others replied. That is
what newsgroups are for.

By the way, Queen, the need to appear "IN CONTROL" at all times, never
giving anyone any personal information for fear they might KNOW something
about one, is a far more neurotic behavior if you ask me, anyday.
--
Regards,
Evelyn

(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox"😉

"Luna" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

(The Queen of Cans and Jars) said:

Luna said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] (The Queen of Cans and Jars) wrote:

> Luna <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
> > When has QoC&J ever supported anyone, ever? Since she has

everything

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> > in life all figured out already, and hasn't ever had any internal
> > struggles to fight, she thinks anyone who does is just looking for
> > drama. She can't say something like "I've been there, I know it
> > sucks, here's how I handled it" because she _hasn't_ been there.
>
> you don't know anything about my life, michelle. you don't have any
> idea where i have and haven't been.
>

I know just as much about your life as you do about my level of

insight,

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whether or not I need therapy, how difficult it is for me to quit

smoking,

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and whether I am posting here because I need support or I'm just

"seeking

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drama." I have just as much of a right to make inferences, guesses,

and

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judgments about you as you do about me.

i've posted far, far less about my personal life than you have.

think about it.

I have. I wonder why you are here since you don't post about any of your
own struggles, and the vast majority of your responses to others are
judgmental and nasty in tone. That leaves a limited number of reasons why
you might choose to participate in this group, none of which indicate a
person with empathy or consideration for others. The very fact that you
_don't_ post anything about your personal life, in a frikkin' support

group

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for cryin' out loud, says volumes about who you are. Afraid maybe others
would judge you the way you judge them? Afraid you couldn't take it?
Pretend not to care so you can't be vulnerable? Genuinely don't care
because you don't think people are worth caring about, including yourself?
Don't want to participate because you think you're better than everyone
else? Don't have any meaningful insights about your own struggles because
you don't chose to look that deeply at yourself?

BINGO! You have her pegged!
--
Regards,
Evelyn

(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox"😉

JC Der Koenig said:

"You allow yourself to be addicted, or not.

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Everything else is just an excuse."

Luna replied

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If you didn't find it difficult to quit, then you weren't addicted. Try
quitting something you actually are addicted to, then get back to me on
whether or not it was difficult.

Luna I honestly think JC has something there. It comes down to the
decision part. I quit smoking when I was 18 years old. I FELT the sense
of addiction, and I hadn't even been smoking long at that time. It was
VERY compelling, but I was absolutely committed to giving it up, so I did
it. Each time I felt like having a cig I had to decide again how committed
I was to that decision not to do it. It was hard, but I was really
committed not to give in to it.

You can do it too. Once you have absolutely committed to the decision, it
becomes easier.

Originally this thread was about the substitution of food for the cigs. We
ought to try and keep it along those lines.

The amateur psychologists and the trolls and the power trippers have all had
their say, as well as quite a few genuine sensitive caring supportive people
who gave you some good ideas. The ones who come to mock or criticise your
style of relating are not helpful. Skip 'em and move on.

--
Regards,
Evelyn

(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox"😉

"Lorelei" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Luna" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

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There will be no hiding, no spinning, and no sugar-coating the truth in
this post.

If it wasn't for exercising, I would probably be halfway back to

regaining

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everything by now. I am about to smash through my first month of

smobriety.

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In laymen's terms, it's almost a month since I quit smoking.

I have been doing really well on not smoking. One of the best, but

hardest

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things about quitting has been all these repressed emotions coming to

the

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surface. I knew I liked to smoke, I knew I was physically addicted, but

I

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had no idea that using nicotine was actually a way to avoid feelings.
Well, apparently it was, because now I've turned into an emotional eater
instead.

I do fine in the beginning of my day. I eat a normal, healthy, small
portioned low-carb meal before heading to my part time afternoon job. I

am

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fine at work. I resist partaking in the high-carb snacks. But when I

get

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home, it all falls apart. I start eating and I don't stop until I go to
sleep. I try to distract myself by going for a walk, but I come back in
and start eating again. I chew gum, but I spit it out and start eating
again. I try to butch up, and it works for 20 minutes or so, then I eat
again. I eat until I am in pain. I hate it. I hate it and I don't

know

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how to stop. It's like part of me wants to hurt myself, and part of me

is

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standing there screaming at that part to [censored] stop it, and I

literally

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feel like I'm going crazy.

I have a long list of the possible emotional reasons for why I am

eating,

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but I don't know where to start or even what to do about any of them. I
have been keeping a journal and writing everything down, hoping it would

be

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somehow cathartic, but it seems pointless. I've always been someone who
needs to actually do something productive and pragmatic to solve

problems,

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but there is nothing I can do to fix the things I am upset about.

Knowing

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I can't fix these things doesn't make the pain stop though. I have to

stop

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eating. I have to, or I am just going to add one more problem.

But what then? I get the eating under control, and then what? I'll

start

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drinking? Doing heroin? I have to fix what's actually wrong, but I

don't

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know how.

--
Michelle Levin
http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick

I have only 3 flaws. My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3

flaws.

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Michelle,
I hear you, girl. Since Curt was diagnosed with terminal cancer I haven't
been doing so good myself. I've drank more (1 almost daily) smoking more

d,

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and no more regular exercise. so it is no shock that I've gained 10+ lbs
from my low of 144 (Dec 2003). and my 20 yr high school reunion is this
weekend and we spent last week at Breezy Point Resort in Pequot Lakes
Minnesota in a time share with my very obese MIL
and I ate like 10 oreos, a baguette (for a french dip sandwich) some

fries,

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peanut butter with butter on a hamburger bun, onion/american fries and

drank

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about half a bottle of Vanilla Absolute with Diet Vanilla Coke.

I know that most of this is emotional, because I feel so messed up about
the future. Why be thin and beautiful for a husband that won't be there,

is

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basically impotent from the drugs that keep him alive, works too hard, it
too tired to participate in family life, do what's the point, I can get

thin

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later after he is dead (see how [censored] up my thinking can be) and then he
will say "let's order pizza" or
" let's go eat China buffet" when he knows that I LOVE white rice and

sweet

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and sour chicken and not much else there.
Congrats on the stopping smoking. Curt has tried many times. He smokes

about

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2 pks per day. I smoke about 1/2 pack per week (if even) He is such a
[censored] when he tries to quit that I basically end up waiting for him to
start again (usually 2 days max) so that he will be cordial again.
I started out trying to help you and here I am venting out. sorry . but

try

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to figure it out. You have done so great and look so beautiful.
What are you going to do for work now that school will be starting and

YMCA

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camps will be over?
I am waiting for S4 and S13 to go to school (first preschool year ever for
Trenton 2.5 hrs/3 days per week for me!!!!!) and then I plan to get back

to

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me for awhile.

I told myself I wouldn't add this, but I kf'd JC and Ignoramus a long time
ago, so when (not if) either of them respond to this post with their hate,
please do not quote it in any reply you make to me. I don't need that kind
of mindless, negative feedback that those hatemongers spread.

--
Lori
220/154-158/144
LC since 1/17/03
Devoted wife of Curtis, Stage 4 Prostate cancer at age 40
http://community.webshots.com/user/lorismiller-date

Dear Lorelei,

Please keep your courage up and remember there ARE sensitive caring people
on this newsgroup in spite of the others.

On the positive side...... I know of 3 people who beat prostate cancer just
in my immediate circle, so it isn't necessarily always a bad outcome. Keep
your courage and faith strong no matter which way it goes. This life can
be tough.

(((((((( hug )))))))))

--
Regards,
Evelyn

(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox"😉

"Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

She trying to quit smoking without regaining all of the weight she has lost.
Aside from #1, the others may be required.

You're right, Roger. It all depends on Michelle's attitude towards
these rules. If she follows them easily, that's fine. But I'm
getting a feeling that she's starting to obsess too much. And that
makes sticking to these restrictions so much more difficult.

Elana wrote:
:: "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:: news:<[email hidden]>...
::: She trying to quit smoking without regaining all of the weight she
::: has lost. Aside from #1, the others may be required.
::
:: You're right, Roger. It all depends on Michelle's attitude towards
:: these rules. If she follows them easily, that's fine. But I'm
:: getting a feeling that she's starting to obsess too much. And that
:: makes sticking to these restrictions so much more difficult.

I personally think she is giving too much weight to the opinions of certain
people here. Sometimes, you've got got to struggle and find what works for
you, in spite of what others think.

"TdN" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Lorelei, you sound like you're keeping it together pretty admirably,
considering everything. I wish I had magic powers to help you instead
of only my respect and sympathy to type into a computer.

Best,

T.

Thank you, I am better today (thank you Viagra) and stayed on plan
yesterday. I will today too.
Lori

"Evelyn Ruut" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dear Lorelei,

Please keep your courage up and remember there ARE sensitive caring people
on this newsgroup in spite of the others.

On the positive side...... I know of 3 people who beat prostate cancer

just

Quoted message said:

in my immediate circle, so it isn't necessarily always a bad outcome.

Keep

Quoted message said:

your courage and faith strong no matter which way it goes. This life

can

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be tough.

(((((((( hug )))))))))

--
Regards,
Evelyn

(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox"😉

Thank you for the support. I think everyone knows 2-3 people who have beaten
prostate cancer, but barring a miracle cure from god, Curt will not. His
cancer is throughout his skeleton and is very painful, the debilitating hot
flashes were at bay with Effexor for about 2 months but they are back full
strength. He is getting weaker, gaining weight, and experiencing more pain.
and I will be here til the end. just don't know when that will be. In fact,
we talked about it yesterday. He wants me to accept that he is going to get
worse and worse until he dies a painfilled death (sometimes being in the
medical field isn't such a good thing, he worked in a hospice program and
has seen this death many times, I have worked mostly in peds where the
cancers are way different). but I can't wrap my mind around that.
Now that school is starting I am getting back to my yoga and Curves.
thanks again.
Lori

"Lorelei" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Evelyn Ruut" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dear Lorelei,

Please keep your courage up and remember there ARE sensitive caring

people

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

on this newsgroup in spite of the others.

On the positive side...... I know of 3 people who beat prostate cancer

just

Quoted message said:

in my immediate circle, so it isn't necessarily always a bad outcome.

Keep

Quoted message said:

your courage and faith strong no matter which way it goes. This life

can

Quoted message said:

be tough.

(((((((( hug )))))))))

--
Regards,
Evelyn

(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox"😉

Thank you for the support. I think everyone knows 2-3 people who have

beaten

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prostate cancer, but barring a miracle cure from god, Curt will not. His
cancer is throughout his skeleton and is very painful, the debilitating

hot

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flashes were at bay with Effexor for about 2 months but they are back full
strength. He is getting weaker, gaining weight, and experiencing more

pain.

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and I will be here til the end. just don't know when that will be. In

fact,

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we talked about it yesterday. He wants me to accept that he is going to

get

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worse and worse until he dies a painfilled death (sometimes being in the
medical field isn't such a good thing, he worked in a hospice program and
has seen this death many times, I have worked mostly in peds where the
cancers are way different). but I can't wrap my mind around that.
Now that school is starting I am getting back to my yoga and Curves.
thanks again.
Lori

Lori,

Sounds to me like you and he are both facing this tragic prognosis
realistically courageously, and as best you can. I salute both of your
courage.

I have a complilation of poetry and other writings that are based on death.
Having lost several people recently, some of this I found inspiring, some
spiritual, some funny, some consoling, and some were just interesting
reading. There are quotes from a great many famous people here. You and
he both might enjoy reading it. At any rate, here it is. I have posted it
before and many people saved it and wrote saying how they appreciated it.

Considering that each and every one of us will oneday pass on, and all of us
will experience the loss of loved ones during our own journey, it can be
helpful to read this sort of thing.

I hope you enjoy it, or at least find some amusement, consolation or
inspiration.

A wonderful book that gave my brother in law great inspiration when he was
passing was "The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying" by Sogyal Rinpoche.
Even if it isn't your religious tradition, the advice is universal.
--
Regards,
Evelyn

(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox"😉

" In this sad world of ours, sorrow comes to all, and it often comes with
bitter agony. Perfect relief is not possible, except with time. You cannot
now believe that you will ever feel better. But this is not true. You are
sure to be happy again. Knowing this, truly believing it, will make you
less miserable now. I have had enough experience to make this statement" -
Abraham Lincoln

**********

"Vanity of vanities, all is vanity."

What does man gain from all his labor in which he labors under the sun? One
generation goes, and another generation comes; but the earth remains
forever. The sun also rises, and the sun goes down, and hurries to its
place where it rises. The wind goes toward the south, and turns around to
the north. It turns around continually as it goes, and the wind returns
again to its courses. All the rivers run into the sea, yet the sea is not
full. To the place where the rivers flow, there they flow again. All things
are full of weariness beyond uttering. The eye is not satisfied with seeing,
nor the ear filled with hearing. That which has been is that which shall
be; and that which has been done is that which shall be done: and there is
no new thing under the sun...

Ecclesiastes

**************

From Cymbeline

William Shakespeare

Fear no more the heat o' the sun,
Nor the furious winter's rages;
Thou thy worldly task hast done,
Home art gone, and ta'en thy wages:
Golden lads and girls all must,
As chimney-sweepers, come to dust.

Fear no more the frown o' the great;
Thou art past the tyrant's stroke;
Care no more to clothe and eat;
To thee the reed is as the oak:
The sceptre, learning, physic, must
All follow this, and come to dust.

Fear no more the lightning flash,
Nor the all-dreaded thunder-stone;
Fear not slander, censure rash;
Thou hast finish'd joy and moan:
All lovers young, all lovers must
Consign to thee, and come to dust.

*******

Do not stand at my grave and weep;
I am not there. I do not sleep.
I am a thousand winds that blow.
I am the diamond glints on snow.
I am the sunlight on ripened grain.
I am the gentle autumn's rain.
When you awaken in the morning's hush,
I am the swift uplifting rush
of quiet birds in circled flight.
I am the soft stars that shine at night.
Do not stand at my grave and cry;
I am not there, I did not die.

By Mary Frye

********************************

From Vimalakirti Nirdesa Sutra :

"Friends, this body is so impermanent, fragile, unworthy of confidence,
and feeble.
It is so insubstantial, perishable, short-lived, painful, filled with
diseases, and subject to changes.
Thus, my friends, as this body is only a vessel of many sicknesses, wise
men do not rely on it.
This body is like a ball of foam, unable to bear any pressure.
It is like a water bubble, not remaining very long.
It is like a mirage, born from the appetites of the passions.
It is like the trunk of the plantain tree, having no core.
Alas! This body is like a machine, a nexus of bones and tendons.
It is like a magical illusion, consisting of falsifications.
It is like a dream, being an unreal vision. It is like a reflection,
being the image of former actions.
It is like an echo, being dependent on conditioning.
It is like a cloud, being characterized by turbulence and dissolution.
It is like a flash of lightning, being unstable, and decaying every
moment.
The body is ownerless, being the product of a variety of conditions.

**********

Requiem

UNDER the wide and starry sky
Dig the grave and let me lie:
Glad did I live and gladly die,
And I laid me down with a will.

This be the verse you grave for me

Here he lies where he long'd to be;
Home is the sailor, home from sea,
And the hunter home from the hill.

Robert Louis Stevenson. 1850-1894

************
Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful. It's the transition that's
troublesome -- Jimi Hendrix
***********
Men fear death, as children fear to go in the dark; and as that natural fear
in children is increased with tales, so is the other. -- Francis Bacon
***********
If man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to
live -- Martin Luther King
***********
I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of
it. -- Mark Twain
***********
I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great
pleasure. -- Clarence Darrow
**********
To be idle is a short road to death and to be diligent is a way of life;
foolish people are idle, wise people are diligent. -- Buddha
**********
For what is it to die, But to stand in the sun and melt into the wind? And
when the Earth has claimed our limbs, Then we shall truly dance. -- Kahlil
Gibran
**********
Only nature has a right to grieve perpetually, for she only is innocent.
Soon the ice will melt, and the blackbirds sing along the river which he
frequented, as pleasantly as ever. The same everlasting serenity will appear
in this face of God, and we will not be sorrowful, if he is not -- Henry
David Thoreau (upon the death of his brother)
**********
Desire is half of life, indifference is half of death. -- Kahlil Gibran
**********
Death is a very dull, dreary affair, and my advice to you is to have
nothing whatsoever to do with it. -- W. Somerset Maugham
**********
It is foolish to be afraid of death. JUST THINK!! No more repaired tires
on the body vehicle, no more patchwork living. -- Paramhansa Yogananda
**********
"I don't mind dying, I just don't want to be there
when it happens." Woody Allen
***********
"It's foolish to fear the loss of something, the loss of
which you'll never regret." Unknown

*************
"I tried with indifferent success to follow his parting advice to me. 'Do
not grieve, Elder Brother. We shall miss each other, but let it not be too
much. As the Preceptor said yesterday, you and I and all beings are
animated by the One Spirit. No parting and no meeting ever really takes
place. When we rejoice at a meeting or grieve at a parting, we are allowing
false understanding to take the place of truth. Wherever you go, in this
life and in lives to come, I shall be with you. The Light which shines
deep, deep within your own heart is my Light, the Light of all. And when at
last we have gained the object of our great search, even apparent
differences and divisions will melt away. You and I will know ourselves for
the One that we have never ceased to be.'"

This is from THE WHEEL OF LIFE by John Blofeld ..pg. l73-l74:

***********

"In Dead Earnest (Lee's Compost Song)," words by Lee Hays (1979), music by
Pete Seeger (1979), copyright Sanga Music Inc.

If I should die before I wake,
All my bone and sinew take
Put me in the compost pile

"Elana" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

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Luna <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

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I think to stop this behavior, I am going to completely change my after
work routine. Instead of coming immediately home, I'll go to the Y and

work

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out. Then when I get home, it will be a different time of day, I will

feel

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different, and maybe that will reprogram me into behaving differently.

Michelle,

I don't know you that well, but, from your recent posts, it seems
that you're building too many rules around you. In the past few
weeks, you have made a whole bunch of new restrictions for yourself.
#1. You're going to thank someone for every meal - that's very noble,
and is a part of many great religions, but is this pure gratitude, or
are you creating another obsessive behavior?
#2. No more eating in your "comfy" chair - the reasons for this
decision are clear, however, you're under much stress already, and
here you are adding another stress.
#3. No more coming home early - again, the reasons are clear, but yet
another rule.
#4. No more smoking - clearly, the most important of all, but still,
a rule, and a terribly difficult one.
#5. No more over-eating - here is another rule that you're trying to
establish for yourself.

The intentions behind these rules are great, and I think that you
should work towards fulfilling every one of them. However, I can see
why it's so tough for you now - you have so many "no"'s all at once.
The more "no"s you create, the more you want to get out of your own
cell, and here comes the food in shining armor - it offers you escape
from your own restrictions. This is how I see the situation anyway.

The questions I would ask are these: Why do you feel like you're
losing control? What are you trying to control in the first place?
Why are you trying to control it? What will happen if you'll let go?
Is there any particular even or person that comes to mind when you're
thinking of control?

Of course, I might be totally wrong, and maybe your reasons for
these rules are completely different. But I am a control freak, and
when I lose control, I tend to do exactly what you're doing here -
making new rules, or binging. In any case, absolutely best wishes to
you! Hang in there!

Elana

This sounds a lot like me before I was diagnosed with OCD.
Lori

Sometimes the people that have really "been there" don't spend their
lives talking about it at every given opportunity either. They learn
from the experience, toughen up, and move on. JMO

--
Cheri
Type 2, no meds for now.

Quoted message said:

Luna said:

Quoted message said:

> When has QoC&J ever supported anyone, ever? Since she has

everything

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

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> in life all figured out already, and hasn't ever had any internal
> struggles to fight, she thinks anyone who does is just looking

for

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> drama. She can't say something like "I've been there, I know it
> sucks, here's how I handled it" because she _hasn't_ been there.

"The Queen of Cans and Jars" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

i've posted far, far less about my personal life than you have.

think about it.

So true, Like how much you weigh, how much you've lost, what you eat, how
much you exercise,.
All I know is that you seem to be here to amuse yourself.

best friends forever,
Lori

"The Queen of Cans and Jars" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

i've posted far, far less about my personal life than you have.

think about it.

So true, Like how much you weigh, how much you've lost, what you eat, how
much you exercise,.
All I know is that you seem to be here to amuse yourself.

best friends forever,
Lori

"Luna" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

(The Queen of Cans and Jars) said:

Luna said:

I find it extremely insulting and cruel for you to dismiss my real,

actual

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

thoughts and feelings about what is really going on in my life as just

some

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story I've just concocted in order to create drama.

i didn't start out giving you a hard time about this. i offered you
support: i told you that i think you need therapy, and i was sincere
about that. my opinion still stands.

I know, you're right. I should give you credit for that. Even though it
was crappy, clichéd advice, it was well meant.

You started the insults when I said I didn't get a choice in which
therapist I saw at the state clinic. The condescending "you're an adult
now" as if that means I automatically have enough money for private
therapy, and "you don't have enough insight to solve your own problems."
And I didn't snap back at you even though you were being a [censored] there, I
let it slide. Until you repeated it to someone else, again being
condescending with your arrogant "I have a pretty good idea of her level

of

Quoted message said:

insight." And that's when you implied that my situation was [censored] and
nothing more than a constant need for drama. And that comment tarnished my
view of you and threw into question the motivations for everything you

say,

Quoted message said:

even when you're supposedly being "genuine." It's like that old joke

"Man,

Quoted message said:

you can be a respected citizen for decades, but if you [censored] just one pig
you get called 'pigfucker' for the rest of your life."

--
Michelle Levin
http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick

I have only 3 flaws. My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws.

Luna, just an observation here,
you seem to speak from the heart what you think about someone and then when
they rebut, you seem to back off and almost apologize..??

I admire the fact that you use this SUPPORT GROUP for support. I find your
posts to be a sort of therapy for you. It helps to let things out slowly. I
find it hurts too much to keep it in and hurts too much to blurt it out, but
to let it out slowly and piece by piece works for me.
I've been through therapy a few times, and I think that once you've been
enough you can pretty much pose the questions to yourself. at least for me.
keep going. you have my support.
Lori

In article <[email hidden]>,

Evelyn Ruut said:

JC Der Koenig said:

"You allow yourself to be addicted, or not.

Quoted message said:

Everything else is just an excuse."

Luna replied

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If you didn't find it difficult to quit, then you weren't addicted. Try
quitting something you actually are addicted to, then get back to me on
whether or not it was difficult.

Luna I honestly think JC has something there. It comes down to the
decision part. I quit smoking when I was 18 years old. I FELT the sense
of addiction, and I hadn't even been smoking long at that time. It was
VERY compelling, but I was absolutely committed to giving it up, so I did
it. Each time I felt like having a cig I had to decide again how committed
I was to that decision not to do it. It was hard, but I was really
committed not to give in to it.

Good for you! And yes, it is hard. Though, I never decided to become
addicted. I decided to try it, but I didn't know I would become addicted.
I was a cocky teenager who thought it wouldn't happen to me. And JC is
full of [censored] about thinking you can just decide not to be addicted once you
already are. If it were as easy as that, then I could also just decide to
not be fat, and *[censored]* it would happen, no need for all this eating less
and exercising more stuff.

Quoted message said:

You can do it too. Once you have absolutely committed to the decision, it
becomes easier.

It has now been over 4 weeks since I quit. I am most definitely commited.
I am not someone who is _trying_ to quit, I am someone who _has_ quit.

Quoted message said:

Originally this thread was about the substitution of food for the cigs. We
ought to try and keep it along those lines.

The amateur psychologists and the trolls and the power trippers have all had
their say, as well as quite a few genuine sensitive caring supportive people
who gave you some good ideas. The ones who come to mock or criticise your
style of relating are not helpful. Skip 'em and move on.

I find some of it helpful. Defending my position forces me to clarify it to
myself as well as to others.

Nevertheless I still marvel at the audacity of people who question my
saying quitting smoking while trying to lose weight is the hardest thing
I've ever done. Instead of correctly thinking "Oh, she must be _really_
addicted then" their response is that I must have had a super easy life up
til now. Since quitting wasn't hard for them, they figure it shouldn't be
hard for me either. Huh? Ok then, by that logic, since I didn't cry when
I was 13 and my mother died, anyone who cries when someone they love dies
is a wimp. I knew she was ready to go and it was an end to her suffering,
and if JC or Queenie ever go through something like that and they don't
have exactly the same philosophy about it and reaction to it that I had,
then they're morally and emotionally weak people who need therapy.

--
Michelle Levin
http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick

I have only 3 flaws. My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws.

And then have a mental block on how difficult it was, or have no empathy
for someone else going through the same thing? Or maybe they fear that
showing empathy, or at least refraining from showing disdain, will make
them weaker? I think I'm right to be affronted by someone else telling me
how difficult quitting smoking _should_ be for me.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Cheri said:

Sometimes the people that have really "been there" don't spend their
lives talking about it at every given opportunity either. They learn
from the experience, toughen up, and move on. JMO

--
Cheri
Type 2, no meds for now.

Quoted message said:

Luna said:

> > When has QoC&J ever supported anyone, ever? Since she has

everything

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > in life all figured out already, and hasn't ever had any internal
> > struggles to fight, she thinks anyone who does is just looking

for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > drama. She can't say something like "I've been there, I know it
> > sucks, here's how I handled it" because she _hasn't_ been there.
>

--
Michelle Levin
http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick

I have only 3 flaws. My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws.