Downer Cows

Saerah said:

Wayne Boatwright wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

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hahabogus <[email hidden]> wrote:

> In other words you get what you pay for... Cheap Beef. Not necessarily a good thing.

This issue got me to thinking about kosher beef. Since the kosher tradition bans the use of any
part of any cow for human consumption if the animal is found to be sick in any way, is kosher
beef less likely to harbor Mad Cow Disease than non-kosher beef?

Really good question. I wonder if the kashering process is preceded by or includes a rigorous
health inspection. I have often bought Kosher meats just because the quality has often seemed
better.

as far as i remember, thats basically true, especially with "glatt" kosher items (animals lungs
<and other organs, i think> are inspected and were free from lesions)

--
Saerah

Also a truly kosher herd would never be fed anything but grain/vegetable matter.

On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 01:11:55 GMT, "DRB" <[email hidden]>

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"sf" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

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Think about supply and demand. If there was a demand, the supply would increase and prices
would be lower because of increased competition.

I asked my dad (a college-educated dairy farmer) after this question was posed yesterday. Animal
protein is used for two reasons. Number one is that it's the protein content is greater per
pound. (1 pound animal matter vs. 1 pound plant matter). The number 2 reason is that animal
protein is not digested in the rumen, but the small intestine. The protein digested in the rumen
is not as available for the animal to use, as the microflora that are doing the digesting in the
rumen use it. Apparently, 70-80% of the animal protein will by-pass the rumen and get digested
later on and is actually available for the animal to absorb.

Thanks for the information - and education!

Practice safe eating - always use condiments

Bob Westcott said:

the standard test used to detect BSE in cows is to cut off its head and study the brain cells.
Unfortunately, once an animal is subjected to the test, it's shelf life is greatly reduced.....

Living deep in the heart of Canadian cattle country, and having family and friends that raise them,
my heart goes out to the US ranchers... we've seen what ignorance, overreaction and press hype can
do to the cattle industry.....

Bob

There's apparently a new test coming available Bob, that can be used in the "field [slaughterhouse]"
- which costs about $20/animal to administer enabling 100% testing.. This, coupled with the 100%
computer tracking of ear tags, should see us all clear in three years when the last of the current
regime animals is long gone. The other part needs to be regulated, especially in America, concerns
what goes into the make up of cattle [and pork, and poultry, ] feed.

I have actually heard somebody defend the use of chicken feces being recycled back into feed after
being "cleaned up" because they are very inefficient at processing their food. If the stuff is that
rich, then perhaps it should go into fertilizer.

Harry

Quoted message said:

"Jeff Davis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

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"sf" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

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On Thu, 25 Dec 2003 21:21:16 -0800, "Diggery Dew" <[email hidden]> wrote:

> Gentlemen,
>
> What horse [censored] these people are spewing!! I live in Yakima,

Washington the

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> dairy this cow came from sent it to market SICK, the vet took samples

to be

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> tested and they still sent it to a slaughter house in Moses Lake

Washington,

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> split it up then sent parts to Centralia Washington. Then parts of

the

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> processed meat was sent to Oregon.
>
> This cow had SYMPTOMS, it was SICK. 73 percent of all SICK and

injured

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cows

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> are butchered for human consumption! The only reason they are able

to

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track

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> the cows lineage and history is that it is a dairy cow. Plan old

beef

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> steers have no paper work.
>
> To pass this off as a "Oh, I thought there was more to the story" is

dumb.

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>

I'd like to know why they were feeding dairy cows grain laden with animal protein.

I'd like to know why the cow was sent off before the test results were returned. The government
said the beef supply is safe. I'm sure gonna miss my steaks.

Bob Westcott said:

We'll wait and see if it actually came from Canada... I'm betting its just a bunch of hype to be
honest. Unfortunately, the USA has a tough time finding accountability at home and likes to find
others to blame... Of course, if the US industry insisted on keeping track of animals better,
they'd be able to say with some certainty where the animal came from.

There is nothing allowed in Canadian feed that can cause BSE, just like US feed. However, due to
whatever circumstances, I'm sure feed in both countries gets "tainted" in the manufacturing
process, blame the feed manufacturers if you like, I'd consider them open game.....

Going to fun to figure it out as the Ear ID tags have apparently gone "astray".

Harry

Quoted message said:

"Nancy Young" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

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DRB said:

"sf" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

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> I'd like to know why they were feeding dairy cows grain laden with animal protein.

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My family has a dairy farm. We would never intentionally feed our cows

the

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stuff that they're not supposed to have. We don't want them getting

sick.

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There is a certain amount of trust you put in the manufacturer that

they're

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doing what they're supposed to and making a safe product for your

animals to

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eat, and it's maddening when something like this happens.

Well, unless I'm out of date, as of this morning they were still tracing the origin of the cow.
If it came from Canada, it might have been legally fed something banned here, at some point.

nancy

Quoted message said:

hahabogus said:

In other words you get what you pay for... Cheap Beef. Not necessarily a good thing.

This issue got me to thinking about kosher beef. Since the kosher tradition bans the use of any
part of any cow for human consumption if the animal is found to be sick in any way, is kosher beef
less likely to harbor Mad Cow Disease than non-kosher beef?

Might save some grief, Stan, especially if the butcher knows where the animal came from, but those
nasty little prions may get past the kashering.

Harry

Harry Demidavicius said:

On 27 Dec 2003 18:16:27 GMT, [email hidden] wrote:

Quoted message said:

Might save some grief, Stan, especially if the butcher knows where the animal came from, but those
nasty little prions may get past the kashering.

Harry

Prions get by anything short of a plasma torch, a nuclear detonation or about an hour in a reactor
core. They are released intact in the smoke when infected animals are burned.

When CJD patients are operated on, the medical instruments are melted down and then entombed in a
glass substrate before burial at a toxic waste site. Reusing them after any form of practical
disinfection has spread CJD to a lot of people who never ate infected beef.

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On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 15:37:01 -0600, BubbaBob

Bubba_Bob@_remove_this_comcast.net said:

Harry Demidavicius said:

On 27 Dec 2003 18:16:27 GMT, [email hidden] wrote:

Quoted message said:

Might save some grief, Stan, especially if the butcher knows where the animal came from, but
those nasty little prions may get past the kashering.

Harry

Prions get by anything short of a plasma torch, a nuclear detonation or about an hour in a reactor
core. They are released intact in the smoke when infected animals are burned.

When CJD patients are operated on, the medical instruments are melted down and then entombed in a
glass substrate before burial at a toxic waste site. Reusing them after any form of practical
disinfection has spread CJD to a lot of people who never ate infected beef.

Not quite.

Acquired CJD accounts for about 1% to 5% of all cases. 10% to 15% are hereditary. 80% to 85% are
what is known as "Sporadic CJD" and are caused by a random mutation.

BSE, or Bovine Spongifom Encephalopathy is referred to as vCJD or Variant Creutzfeld-Jacob Disease.
It is not exactly the same as CJD and the brain lesions more closely resemble those from a cow with
(BSE) than brain lesions from a human with CJD. CJD generally affects those between 50 and 70. vCJD
is usually seen in younger persons.

A person cannot contract CJD from "infected beef." Surgical instrument spread of CJD has been
minimal, even with the lengthy incubation period. . There have been a goodly number of cases traced
to corneal transplant, though and from use of human-derived growth hormone, and transplantation of
dura matter. Only a handful come from instrument contamination.

Both CJD and vCJD are caused by prions, which withstand standard sterilization procedures.

I have seen no recommendation of "glass substate" you mentioned for disposal of the contaminated
surgical instruments. Can you provide a citation? There is talk of a newer, enzyme based treatment
that dissolves the proteins and seems promising for investigation. You can read about it here:

newscientist.combse.jspOpen ↗

Boron

"Harry Demidavicius" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

There's apparently a new test coming available Bob, that can be used in the "field
[slaughterhouse]" - which costs about $20/animal to administer enabling 100% testing.. This,
coupled with the 100% computer tracking of ear tags, should see us all clear in three years
when the last of the current regime animals is long gone. The other part needs to be
regulated, especially in America, concerns what goes into the make up of cattle [and pork, and
poultry, ] feed.

One would hope that this latest incident will force the packing industry to finally get with the
program and test EACH animal BEFORE putting it into the food supply. I've read about this testing,
but haven't seen anything in regard to how long it takes to get results. I know around here, the big
resistance is the cost. Go figure, $1500 for an animal, but no one wants to charge $30 (all prices
in Canadian dollars) to insure that it is safe to eat. Furthermore, one could reasonably expect that
once the test becomes widely used, economies of scale should drop the price down substantially.

As for the ear tags, that is wholly a USA issue. All Canadian animals are tagged and tracked. It
seems that once they hit the border, somebody pulls the tags off. Go figure.....

Bob

On 12/29/2003 6:38 AM, in article f%WHb.865080$9l5.164283@pd7tw2no, "Bob
Westcott" <[email hidden]> opined:

Quoted message said:

"Harry Demidavicius" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

There's apparently a new test coming available Bob, that can be used in the "field
[slaughterhouse]" - which costs about $20/animal to administer enabling 100% testing.. This,
coupled with the 100% computer tracking of ear tags, should see us all clear in three years
when the last of the current regime animals is long gone. The other part needs to be
regulated, especially in America, concerns what goes into the make up of cattle [and pork, and
poultry, ] feed.

One would hope that this latest incident will force the packing industry to finally get with the
program and test EACH animal BEFORE putting it into the food supply. I've read about this testing,
but haven't seen anything in regard to how long it takes to get results. I know around here, the
big resistance is the cost. Go figure, $1500 for an animal, but no one wants to charge $30 (all
prices in Canadian dollars) to insure that it is safe to eat. Furthermore, one could reasonably
expect that once the test becomes widely used, economies of scale should drop the price down
substantially.

As for the ear tags, that is wholly a USA issue. All Canadian animals are tagged and tracked. It
seems that once they hit the border, somebody pulls the tags off. Go figure.....

Bob

Why use ear tags that can come off, why not use DNA id?
--
=====================================================================
"New Orleans food is as delicious as the less criminal forms of sin." -- Mark Twain, 1884
=====================================================================

Boron Elgar said:

I have seen no recommendation of "glass substate" you mentioned for disposal of the contaminated
surgical instruments. Can you provide a citation? There is talk of a newer, enzyme based treatment
that dissolves the proteins and seems promising for investigation. You can read about it here:

newscientist.combse.jspOpen ↗

Boron

Can't give you a cite as I'm on the road for several weeks. It's the way we've started dealing at my
workplace with CJD prion contaminated instruments and biological waste. We don't have many CJD cases
but we're a medical research center and end up with BCE waste. The technique was developed by Sandia
Corporation for dealing with high level nuclear wastes that had a tendency to break down and migrate
to the water table.The only difference is that the glass bricks go to toxic waste dumps rather than
nuclear waste dumps. They're supposed to hold up for 50,000 years, which is the the feds' official
cutoff date for worrying about any kind of environmental hazard to future generations. (Sandia's
estimate is that all human life will be extinct in far, far less time.).

I don't have the time to read the enzyme cite at the moment but it seems like a reasonable area
to explore.

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