Coyotes

Quoted message said:

David Newman [email hidden]

wrote in part:

Quoted message said:

The following is forwarded without permission of the author (mainly
because I got it from someone else, and I don't know who the author is):

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Dave

-------------- Forwarded Message: --------------
From: cynthia
Subject: wily coyote
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004

this past weekend i went cycling and it was slightly more exciting than
usual. thought i'd share the story with you.

on saturday my friend Brad and i went for a bike ride in Rocky Mt.
National Park. we rode up old fall river road to the top of trail
ridge road. it was a long climb (4000'😉, cold, snow on the ground, and
windy. at around 11,400', after we passed the visitor center and were
heading up towards the pass, we were nearly attacked by a coyote. it
was extremely aggressive and one of the largest i've ever seen. for
about ten minutes it was charging both of us, dodging in and out of
cars trying to get at us and com ing up from behind with its teeth
bared.

---remainder snipped---

Unattributable and undocumented accounts such as this of course constitute
proof of just how dangerous those vicious coyotes are.
BTW, exactly how did the USFS know that the animal they "took care of" was the
specific animal that had attempted to rip those poor cyclists apart? I probably
shouldn't ask that. Tall tales are more entertaining when no one questions
their veracity. <g>

Regards,
Bob Hunt

P.S.- David said up front that he had no idea where this story came from so to
be clear, I'm not accusing him of anything.

i love the anthropomorphism

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Diablo Scott said:

I've always seen coyotes on my rides around here.

I was on the phone today, standing next to a giant
abandoned gravel pit, and there were two at the bottom
looking up at me wondering what I was going to do next.

Quoted message said:

They usually just
watch you go by, they usually aren't frightened, they usually don't run
away, they usually hold their ground even though you come pretty close
to them. Sometimes they'll run alongside you for a while, hoping you'll
scare up a squirrel for them to catch. I've seen them easily chase down
and catch jack rabbits.

It's "Ko-yoats", btw.

"Ky-yo-tees" is a TV thing.

Quoted message said:

I've never been scared of them but their
numbers are increasing and news stories from nearby say they're getting
more aggressive too, feeding on cats and dogs, stalking children. I
wonder what would happen in a bike-coyote collision - would the coyote
run away in a panic? or attack in defense?

Run away.

Quoted message said:

Well, at least they're not mountain lions.

Yes. They would chase you down and eat you.

--Blair
"Eddie Merckx with a tail."

psycholist said:

We have coyotes galore here in rural western South Carolina. The only time
you see them is every now an then around sunset.

I live on a golf course about 100 yards from open desert.

The golf course is a natural haven and food source for jackrabbits,
so on any given afternoon there are dozens of rabbits in view over
my wall.

Often in the middle of the night the coyotes will come upon a tardy
rabbit and send out a feeding call.

Two 'yotes can make a noise that sounds like dozens.

But for the first few seconds, you think the alien spaceships
are landing in your back yard.

--Blair
"Don't let the cat out."

Hunrobe said:

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (MikeYankee)
My biggest animal fear is having some stupid deer cross the road in front of
me while I'm descending at 40 mph.

While I agree with you completely I can't help but wonder- what if that deer
decided to cross in front of you when you are *ascending* at 40 mph? <g>

Then you wake up.

--Blair
"And stop calling yourself 'Lance'."

Rick Warner said:

News hype. Coyotes are smallish; a good male would be lucky to push
30 pounds, most are usually in the mid-20's in weight.

Around here (Sonoran desert; South Mountain; Phoenix, Arizona)
20 lbs would be a puppy.

I'd say the average adult would run about 40 lbs and the
bigger ones are about 60.

But there are a lot of rabbits and lizards in this
neighborhood, so maybe they're just really well fed.

Quoted message said:

I used to work
as a field biologist, and believe me a coyote is not going to tangle
with anything very big; they just are not that big or strong (saw one
kill a deer once, but the deer had been hit by a car and was almost
dead before the coyote got there). A hungry coyote might take out a
small to medium sized cat or a small dog but nothing much bigger.

I've had coyotes jog right past me on the golf course with
barely a glance.

I've also seen small packs (4-5 dogs) run across the street in
my headlights. Not as innocuous as you think.

Quoted message said:

(I've had the rabies series; you do not want it). Ignore the news
hype; just do not hit any coyotes (easy enough to avoid them),

As far as I can tell, they must share the same psychotic
instinct as the smaller animals, and often run into the
car rather than away from it.

On your bike, you can probably stop before they have a chance
to make contact.

--Blair
"And if not, you can make a nifty hat
for those winter rides."

"David Reuteler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Diablo Scott said:

The recent news story is from the Silicon Valley area -
large estates for wealthy people built in areas that were until recently
undeveloped. Apparently a lot of the folks there put out food for feral
cats and deer and that of course attracts the coyotes too. Lots of
controversy over whether they should deal with the coyotes or the idiots.

Actually, the Silicon Valley 'hot spot' for the current coyote controversy
is about a half-mile from my house, and the media reports have been less
than accurate. This area has been built up for over 65 years...not recent
housing development. The issue is that _any_ effective control measures
have been banned in recent years, and the coyote population has exploded. I
often see them when riding along paths in the Santa Teresa hills, and twice
recently have seen them in a pack of 8 to 10 merrily trotting down the
street in front of my house.

There has been considerable loss of small animals, and some stalking of
humans but no actual attacks reported. The reports of people feeding deer
and feral cats seem to come only from a animal protection group that is
trying to ban any corrective measures, and I have not seen any evidence of
this.

I'm not particularly worried when I'm out riding, but I sure wouldn't want
my grandchildren out of my sight in any of the local parks till this is
resolved.

Bill

Blair P. Houghton said:

Rick Warner said:

News hype. Coyotes are smallish; a good male would be lucky to push
30 pounds, most are usually in the mid-20's in weight.

Around here (Sonoran desert; South Mountain; Phoenix, Arizona)
20 lbs would be a puppy.

I'd say the average adult would run about 40 lbs and the
bigger ones are about 60.

That is your perception, but it is incorrect. I worked, as a field
biologist, in the Sonoran desert for years. Trapped many coyotes,
weighed many coyotes, from the Mogollon rim down to the border with
Mexico. 25 pounds is a big coyote in that area. There is a lot of
fur, but not much substance.

Quoted message said:

I've had coyotes jog right past me on the golf course with
barely a glance.

Right; you are not dinner, they know that and are looking for
something they can eat.

Quoted message said:

I've also seen small packs (4-5 dogs) run across the street in
my headlights. Not as innocuous as you think.

No, they are just as innocuous as I *know*, not think. Go back to my
background. Spend years working with animals and you know a lot more
than the urban myths and suppositions that seem to abound. The packs
are probably family units, mother and children; for the most part
coyotes are solitary and do not spend much time together except when
mating or when the young are being taught the ropes by mom. They do
not form regular packs like some of their cousins, e.g., gray wolves
and African hunting dogs.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(I've had the rabies series; you do not want it). Ignore the news
hype; just do not hit any coyotes (easy enough to avoid them),

As far as I can tell, they must share the same psychotic
instinct as the smaller animals, and often run into the
car rather than away from it.

On your bike, you can probably stop before they have a chance
to make contact.

I've been within 10 feet of them at least a dozen times this year
while on my bike. As soon as they realize I am there they make from
the brush.

- rick

Blair P. Houghton said:

Rick Warner said:

News hype. Coyotes are smallish; a good male would be lucky to push
30 pounds, most are usually in the mid-20's in weight.

Around here (Sonoran desert; South Mountain; Phoenix, Arizona)
20 lbs would be a puppy.

I'd say the average adult would run about 40 lbs and the
bigger ones are about 60.

And if you do not want to believe me on the size of coyotes in the
Sonoran desert, here is from the web page of ASDM (Arizona Sonora
Desert Museum for those outside the area):

"Coyote: A coyote resembles a medium-sized dog with a long, bushy
black-tipped tail, big ears, and a pointy face. The fur color varies
from grayish to light brown, with a buffy or white underbelly. You’ll
never see a fat coyote in the wild. Wiry and with long, slender legs
and small feet, a desert coyote usually weighs only 15 to 25 pounds.
The tracks are much smaller than those of a domestic dog of the same
size."

- rick

Blair P. Houghton wrote:
|| Diablo Scott <[email hidden]> wrote:
||| I've always seen coyotes on my rides around here.
||
|| I was on the phone today, standing next to a giant
|| abandoned gravel pit, and there were two at the bottom
|| looking up at me wondering what I was going to do next.
||
||| They usually just
||| watch you go by, they usually aren't frightened, they usually don't
||| run away, they usually hold their ground even though you come
||| pretty close to them. Sometimes they'll run alongside you for a
||| while, hoping you'll scare up a squirrel for them to catch. I've
||| seen them easily chase down and catch jack rabbits.
||
|| It's "Ko-yoats", btw.

Interesting.

micky said:

i love the anthropomorphism

Yeah, but the coyotes hate it.

Roger Zoul said:

the black rose wrote:
|| Hate the buggers. Them and deer. Lots of people think deer are just
|| cute little bambis, but farmers are more practical -- deer = rats
|| with hooves.

Well, I can't see eating a rat, but I'd be happy to have deer for supper, I
think.

There's that. I have a farmer's reaction to all those bleeding hearts
who think it's criminal to kill a bambi. Yeah, they're real cute while
they eat everything in your garden, including the flowers. They'll come
for miles to eat a strawberry patch. They'll decimate your children's
vegetable patch.

Rats with hooves.

-km

--
Only cowards fight kids -- unidentified Moscow protester

http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts
proud to be owned by a yorkie

Hunrobe said:

Unattributable and undocumented accounts such as this of course constitute
proof of just how dangerous those vicious coyotes are.
BTW, exactly how did the USFS know that the animal they "took care of" was the
specific animal that had attempted to rip those poor cyclists apart? I probably
shouldn't ask that. Tall tales are more entertaining when no one questions
their veracity. <g>

A thought: it could have been a coy-dog. I'd lean toward that theory
just from the description of its size. Even wild coy-dogs have less
fear of humans and their machines than full-blooded coyotes.

I was a sheep farmer for 10 years -- believe me, I would rather face a
coyote than a coy-dog, any day. Coyotes are afraid of me. Coy-dogs aren't.

-km

--
Only cowards fight kids -- unidentified Moscow protester

http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts
proud to be owned by a yorkie

Rick Warner said:

Blair P. Houghton said:

I've also seen small packs (4-5 dogs) run across the street in
my headlights. Not as innocuous as you think.

No, they are just as innocuous as I *know*, not think. Go back to my
background. Spend years working with animals and you know a lot more
than the urban myths and suppositions that seem to abound. The packs
are probably family units, mother and children; for the most part
coyotes are solitary and do not spend much time together except when
mating or when the young are being taught the ropes by mom. They do
not form regular packs like some of their cousins, e.g., gray wolves
and African hunting dogs.

Would you say then that these packs are likely coy-dogs? That would be
my first guess.

-km

--
Only cowards fight kids -- unidentified Moscow protester

http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts
proud to be owned by a yorkie

Blair P. Houghton said:

Diablo Scott said:

I've always seen coyotes on my rides around here.

I was on the phone today, standing next to a giant
abandoned gravel pit, and there were two at the bottom
looking up at me wondering what I was going to do next.

Quoted message said:

They usually just
watch you go by, they usually aren't frightened, they usually don't run
away, they usually hold their ground even though you come pretty close
to them. Sometimes they'll run alongside you for a while, hoping you'll
scare up a squirrel for them to catch. I've seen them easily chase down
and catch jack rabbits.

It's "Ko-yoats", btw.

"Ky-yo-tees" is a TV thing.

Not according to the Oxford English Dictionary.

-km

--
Only cowards fight kids -- unidentified Moscow protester

http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts
proud to be owned by a yorkie

Quoted message said:

Anyway, the coyote is now a danger to humans. The mountain variety goes
50lbs so it can rip your throat out just like any dog can. Here is a
good article including the warning that you may be killed by these dogs

Quoted message said:

at any moment.

I have never heard of a documented case of a coyote killing a human. There are
certainly capable of killing a child but I think a healthy adult would be too
much for them. I do not recall ever running across a case where a wolf, a far
more formible predator then the coyote, has ever killed a human in North
America. To give you a perspective on wolves and coyotes, wolves view coyotes
as nice snacks. The eradication of the wolf is what allowed the coyote to
dramatically expand its range.

the black rose wrote:
|| Roger Zoul wrote:
||| the black rose wrote:
||||| Hate the buggers. Them and deer. Lots of people think deer are
||||| just cute little bambis, but farmers are more practical -- deer =
||||| rats
||||| with hooves.
|||
||| Well, I can't see eating a rat, but I'd be happy to have deer for
||| supper, I think.
||
|| There's that. I have a farmer's reaction to all those bleeding
|| hearts
|| who think it's criminal to kill a bambi. Yeah, they're real cute
|| while
|| they eat everything in your garden, including the flowers. They'll
|| come
|| for miles to eat a strawberry patch. They'll decimate your
|| children's vegetable patch.
||
|| Rats with hooves.

I do enjoy seeing a bambi while riding, but like others have said, I fear
one popping out in the road in front of me while I'm riding.

I'd gladly let bambi eat my strawberry for an easy chance to fill my
freezer. Last I checked, meat is more expensive than berries! 🙂

Quoted message said:

That is your perception, but it is incorrect. I worked, as a field
biologist, in the Sonoran desert for years. Trapped many coyotes,
weighed many coyotes, from the Mogollon rim down to the border with
Mexico. 25 pounds is a big coyote in that area. There is a lot of
fur, but not much substance.

Wild animals have a tendency to look positively enormous.

It is an axiom that the fish that gets away is almost always a world record
breaker.

Roger Zoul said:

|| Hate the buggers. Them and deer. Lots of people think deer are just
|| cute little bambis, but farmers are more practical -- deer = rats
|| with hooves.

Well, I can't see eating a rat, but I'd be happy to have deer for supper, I
think.

Then there are squirrels - rodents with fluffy tails. The same people
that will walk right by a scavenging little bugger squirrel will go
running and screaming from a grey mouse the size of a, well, a mouse.

Go figure.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

David L. Johnson said:

Can't imagine what the controversy is. It is clearly more effective to
deal with the coyotes. They are smarter.

Been reading Mike Vandemann posts again I see.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...