compact geometry hell

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Callistus Valer
Do people really like these ugly compact geometry bikes? When you stop at the stoplight, how do you
rest your leg on the top bar? We have some really long red lights around here. It's too bad, now I
wouldn't even consider buying a LeMond bike.

The only thing in favor of it, is that you give the bike to a relative or as a hand me down,
because all you do is raise or lower the seat to fit them.

Whiner...

"Callistus Valerius" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Do people really like these ugly compact geometry bikes? When you stop at the stoplight, how do
you rest your leg on the top bar? We have some really long red lights around here. It's too
bad, now I wouldn't even consider buying a LeMond bike.

The only thing in favor of it, is that you give the bike to a relative or as a hand me down,
because all you do is raise or lower the seat to fit them.

Uhh, for those of us built like a gorilla (long arms/torso, short legs), compact frames are a
godsend. Now I can actually straddle the TT AND have the right length at the same time.

I haven't wanted a Lemond since the Lemond/Mitsubishi Rayon frame/fork I saw in Adams Ave. bikes.
Think Calfee and you have the right idea.

Oh, and straddling the TT still works, you just have to bend the other leg a bit more.

Mike Who loves my pair of compact frames...

Please! when you ride always look straight ahead. the whistling is driving us crazy!

jazzy-<< Do people really like these ugly compact geometry bikes? >><BR><BR>

Those that believe the marketing hype or are really small riders do.

Compact, like a lot of things 'bike' is being foisted onto the consumer. Most of these
things do nothing to put people on bikes and keep them there. Mostly it is about the
bike biz saving money cuz, like it or believe it or not, the bike biz has been in
trouble for years.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Peter, how can you say such a thing???? I saw you drive home in that Ferrari.

Seriously though, the compact geometry frames represent a great savings to the dealer and
manufacturer. It means you have to stock a smaller range of sizes for each bike model. Has your new
fit-'em kit arrived yet? We saw it at Interbike. It was developed by an orthopedic surgeon and an
insurance adjuster team. It has the ability to stretch or contract bone lengths to accommodate
almost anyone to any frame. This is going to be a great boon to the bike biz. Why we can even sell
it to the shoe stores too....

One thing we really should work on is a prop from Sleeper, you know the Woody Allen film. They had a
closet that was called the Orgasmatron. This thing needs to be built into the new pro team issue
seats. We'll get those demographic numbers up there where they need to be in a year. You watch!
Between Berman & Berman, FashionTV and MTV, this thing is going to fly....

Bruce

"Qui si parla Campagnolo " <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20040301085428.20451.00000779@mb-
m28.aol.com...

Quoted message said:

jazzy-<< Do people really like these ugly compact geometry bikes?

Quoted message said:

<BR><BR>

Those that believe the marketing hype or are really small riders do.

Compact, like a lot of things 'bike' is being foisted onto the consumer.

Most

Quoted message said:

of these things do nothing to put people on bikes and keep them there.

Mostly

Quoted message said:

it is about the bike biz saving money cuz, like it or believe it or not,

the

Quoted message said:

bike biz has been in trouble for years.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Callistus Valer
Do people really like these ugly compact geometry bikes? When you stop at the stoplight, how do you
rest your leg on the top bar? We have some really long red lights around here. It's too bad, now I
wouldn't even consider buying a LeMond bike.

The only thing in favor of it, is that you give the bike to a relative or as a hand me down,
because all you do is raise or lower the seat to fit them.

Some frames aren't as compact as others. Seems like the Litespeeds, Merlins, & other US brands have a tendency to have really extreme sloping top tubes. And the Merckx, Pinarellos, and other Euro brands seems to have less slope to the top tubes.

Maybe there should be a new category called "semi-compact"?

There is a reason they're in trouble.

How many brands of $200 shorts could you buy in 2000? Asssos. How many brands of $200 shorts can you
buy in 2004? Assos, Pearl Izumi, Castelli, ...

How many brands of $350+ cranksets could you buy in 2000? Sweet Wings How many brands of $350+
cranksets can you buy in 2004? Shimano, Campy, Colnago, FSA, ...

They have given up on finding new customers and decided to milk the existing ones.

-Dion

"Qui si parla Campagnolo " <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20040301085428.20451.00000779@mb-
m28.aol.com... ...

Quoted message said:

Mostly it is about the bike biz saving money cuz, like it or believe it or not,

the

Quoted message said:

bike biz has been in trouble for years.

"Dion Dock" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

There is a reason they're in trouble.

How many brands of $200 shorts could you buy in 2000? Asssos. How many brands of $200 shorts can
you buy in 2004? Assos, Pearl Izumi, Castelli, ...

How many brands of $350+ cranksets could you buy in 2000? Sweet Wings How many brands of $350+
cranksets can you buy in 2004? Shimano, Campy, Colnago, FSA, ...

They have given up on finding new customers and decided to milk the existing ones.

Good point. Overheard a sales clerk mutter as he walked by to fetch a chi-chi gee-gaw for a well
heeled, clueless customer: "People have way too much f@$#%^ money".

Callistus Valerius said:

Do people really like these ugly compact geometry bikes? When you stop

I have one and don't particularly like or dislike the compact geometry. The bike fits.

Quoted message said:

at the stoplight, how do you rest your leg on the top bar? We have some

I don't. How do you? I have one foot clicked into the pedal, and the other on the ground, regardless
of whether I'm riding my compact or a standard frame.

Quoted message said:

The only thing in favor of it, is that you give the bike to a relative or as a hand me down,
because all you do is raise or lower the seat to fit them.

You also need to adjust the handlebar for reach and height. Both are pretty easy to do with
threadless stems, and height is reasonably easy with threaded. Of course, that bit qualifies this as
both a response to a troll and troll in and of itself...
--
Rick Onanian

Rick Onanian <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 23:52:02 GMT, "Callistus Valerius"

Quoted message said:

.. Do people really like these ugly compact geometry bikes? When you stop...>

I think the compact geometry works for some people but here is a very bad (or ugly) fit example:
take a look at the current T-Mobile/Telekom's Giants. Ullrich bike has ~2" headset spacers. Zabel I
think expressed (in one interview)that the off the shelve frame doesn't fit him ... I hope T-Mobile
doesn't have a bad season riding those. DA10 seems to be doing well in functionality.

Quoted message said:

Dion-<< How many brands of $200 shorts could you buy in 2000? Asssos. How many brands of $200
shorts can you buy in 2004? Assos, Pearl Izumi, Castelli, ... >><BR><BR>

But there are still well made and inexpensive shorts and bibs out there, like Giordana and
Descente.

Dion<< How many brands of $350+ cranksets could you buy in 2000? Sweet Wings How many brands of
$350+ cranksets can you buy in 2004? Shimano, Campy, Colnago, FSA, ...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<BR><BR>

But there are still well made and inexpensive cranksets out there from FSA, Campagnolo, shimano.

Dion<< They have given up on finding new customers and decided to milk the existing ones>><BR><BR>

Agree. The bike biz needs to put NEW people on bikes and keep them there. Relaible, well made and
ASSEMBLED bicycles that do what are promised.

Along with well maintained BIKE LANES, not multi-use paths, to make cycling safer and more
enjoyable. A $2 per gallon gas tax wouldn't hurt.

BUT NOT threadless and stoopid things like disc brakes on road bikes or oversized hbars or crappy
wheels outta boxes or carbon butt ends..etc..

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Way to go Peter! That's all great stuff. Almost makes me forgive you for the no-grease-on-crank
spindle tapers-thing.

Just kidding; I know it's not much more than a religious disagreement. But there is a battle raging
at this moment on the fixed-gear list.

--
Ted Bennett Portland OR

"Dion Dock" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

There is a reason they're in trouble.

How many brands of $200 shorts could you buy in 2000? Asssos. How many brands of $200 shorts can
you buy in 2004? Assos, Pearl Izumi, Castelli, ...

How many brands of $350+ cranksets could you buy in 2000? Sweet Wings How many brands of $350+
cranksets can you buy in 2004? Shimano, Campy, Colnago, FSA, ...

They have given up on finding new customers and decided to milk the existing ones.

-Dion

Dear Dion,

Actually, given the law of supply and demand, don't rising prices suggest that the manfacturers are
not in trouble?

The flourishing market for $200 riding shorts and $350 cranks suggests that so many people are
willing to pay that much for such wonderful items that more manufacturers are providing exactly what
the teeming masses are demanding.

Besides, it works both ways. WalMart's 18-speed mountain bike is dipping dangerously close to the
under-$50 price at which I've sworn to buy one and ride it for at least a week.

Take heart,

Carl Fogel

Ted Bennett <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Way to go Peter! That's all great stuff. Almost makes me forgive you for the no-grease-on-crank
spindle tapers-thing.

Just kidding; I know it's not much more than a religious disagreement. But there is a battle
raging at this moment on the fixed-gear list.

Well of course. If those bikes only had more parts, the list could move on to more important matters
like front derailleur compatibilities.

Peter Storey

Carl Fogel said:

WalMart's 18-speed mountain bike is dipping dangerously close to the under-$50 price at which I've
sworn to buy one and ride it for at least a week.

According to Wal-Mart (tinyurl.comkiroOpen ↗), the bike is 15-speed (not 18). It has a 5-speed 14-
28 freewheel with a triple crank (no indication of chainring sizes). I didn't know freewheel bikes
were still available!

I'll send you the extra $3.73 + tax if you buy it and ride it for 1000 miles. At the average speeds
you've claimed before, that means less than 50 hours on that bike. Of course this bike will be
slightly slower.

1000 miles is certainly not a good test of durability, since a bike should last *much* longer than
that. But I'd dare to bet that you'd be pretty sick of that bike by the end of that time. And I
wouldn't be surprised if a few durability issues came up during that period.

Full URL for the tinyurl haters: walmart.comproduct.gspOpen ↗
4183&type=5&dept=4125&path=0%3A4125%3A4178%3A4180%3A4183

--
Dave dvt at psu dot edu

Is there really demand for such things? Sure, there is supply (or at least ads) but does that mean
there is demand?

I get the feeling one manufacturer sells an expensive product and the other companies all figure
there must be a big demand for it. They also feel compelled to sell such a product for their image:
how good can X be if they don't have an expensive product like Y.

I forgot Look's $600 no-chainring crankset as shown in the latest Bicycling....

Now where did I put my $699 Easton aero bars?

-Dion

"Carl Fogel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Dion Dock" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

There is a reason they're in trouble.

How many brands of $200 shorts could you buy in 2000? Asssos. How many brands of $200 shorts can
you buy in 2004? Assos, Pearl Izumi, Castelli, ...

How many brands of $350+ cranksets could you buy in 2000? Sweet Wings How many brands of $350+
cranksets can you buy in 2004? Shimano, Campy, Colnago, FSA, ...

They have given up on finding new customers and decided to milk the

existing

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

ones.

-Dion

Dear Dion,

Actually, given the law of supply and demand, don't rising prices suggest that the manfacturers
are not in trouble?

The flourishing market for $200 riding shorts and $350 cranks suggests that so many people are
willing to pay that much for such wonderful items that more manufacturers are providing exactly
what the teeming masses are demanding.

Besides, it works both ways. WalMart's 18-speed mountain bike is dipping dangerously close to the
under-$50 price at which I've sworn to buy one and ride it for at least a week.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dion Dock
[B]Is there really demand for such things? Sure, there is supply (or at least ads) but does that mean
there is demand?

I get the feeling one manufacturer sells an expensive product and the other companies all figure
there must be a big demand for it. They also feel compelled to sell such a product for their image:
how good can X be if they don't have an expensive product like Y.

I forgot Look's $600 no-chainring crankset as shown in the latest Bicycling....

Now where did I put my $699 Easton aero bars?

-Dion

"Carl Fogel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Dion Dock" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

There is a reason they're in trouble.

How many brands of $200 shorts could you buy in 2000? Asssos. How many brands of $200 shorts can
you buy in 2004? Assos, Pearl Izumi, Castelli, ...

How many brands of $350+ cranksets could you buy in 2000? Sweet Wings How many brands of $350+
cranksets can you buy in 2004? Shimano, Campy, Colnago, FSA, ...

They have given up on finding new customers and decided to milk the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

ones.

-Dion

Dear Dion,

Actually, given the law of supply and demand, don't rising prices suggest that the manfacturers
are not in trouble?

The flourishing market for $200 riding shorts and $350 cranks suggests that so many people are
willing to pay that much for such wonderful items that more manufacturers are providing exactly
what the teeming masses are demanding.

Besides, it works both ways. WalMart's 18-speed mountain bike is dipping dangerously close to the
under-$50 price at which I've sworn to buy one and ride it for at least a week. [/B]

dvt <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Carl Fogel said:

WalMart's 18-speed mountain bike is dipping dangerously close to the under-$50 price at which
I've sworn to buy one and ride it for at least a week.

According to Wal-Mart (tinyurl.comkiroOpen ↗), the bike is 15-speed (not 18). It has a 5-speed
14-28 freewheel with a triple crank (no indication of chainring sizes). I didn't know freewheel
bikes were still available!

I'll send you the extra $3.73 + tax if you buy it and ride it for 1000 miles. At the average
speeds you've claimed before, that means less than 50 hours on that bike. Of course this bike will
be slightly slower.

1000 miles is certainly not a good test of durability, since a bike should last *much* longer than
that. But I'd dare to bet that you'd be pretty sick of that bike by the end of that time. And I
wouldn't be surprised if a few durability issues came up during that period.

Full URL for the tinyurl haters: walmart.comproduct.gspOpen ↗
t=4183&type=5&dept=4125&path=0%3A4125%3A4178%3A4180%3A4183

Dear Dave,

The things I'll do for $3.73!

I suppose that I can't complain if it's only 15 speeds. My touring bike only has 14.

Carl Fogel

dvt said:

Carl Fogel said:

WalMart's 18-speed mountain bike is dipping dangerously close to the under-$50 price at which
I've sworn to buy one and ride it for at least a week.

According to Wal-Mart (tinyurl.comkiroOpen ↗), the bike is 15-speed (not 18). It has a 5-speed
14-28 freewheel with a triple crank (no indication of chainring sizes). I didn't know freewheel
bikes were still available!

I'll send you the extra $3.73 + tax if you buy it and ride it for 1000 miles. At the average
speeds you've claimed before, that means less than 50 hours on that bike. Of course this bike will
be slightly slower.

1000 miles is certainly not a good test of durability, since a bike should last *much* longer than
that. But I'd dare to bet that you'd be pretty sick of that bike by the end of that time. And I
wouldn't be surprised if a few durability issues came up during that period.

Full URL for the tinyurl haters: walmart.comproduct.gspOpen ↗
t=4183&type=5&dept=4125&path=0%3A4125%3A4178%3A4180%3A4183

I have always wanted a bike with a "high-tensity steel frame and fork". 😉

If the frame is handcrafted, I want to know the name of the person who did the handcrafting (as I do
for my trike and lowracer).

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities (Illinois Side)

Carl Fogel said:

... I suppose that I can't complain if it's only 15 speeds. My touring bike only has 14.

Dear Carl,

Does your touring bike have a single chainring and Rohloff hub?

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities (Illinois Side)