Can you make it to the market on a bike?



On Aug 2, 3:24 am, Ace <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Thu, 02 Aug 2007 08:14:13 +0100, Peter Clinch
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >donquijote1954 wrote:
>
> >> Letting bikes loose out on the roads can be dangerous. Better channel
> >> them through bike lanes.
>
> >Bike lanes don't have a better safety track record than the roads.
>
> >Go tohttp://www.cyclecraft.co.uk/infrastructure.htmland actually do
> >some reading around the subject.
>
> Alternatively, you could just stop feeding the troll. It's fairly
> clear that he's not listening, and I doubt that anyone will seriously
> take any notice of him, as he's such an obvious monomaniac.

Bike lanes and thus people riding bikes and saving gas is such
monomaniacal idea. Reasonable people just drive a country to war and
get more oil. They all want to be like Napoleon. Isn't that a clinical
case?
 
On Aug 2, 5:08 am, Tony Raven <[email protected]> wrote:
> Ace wrote:
>
> > Alternatively, you could just stop feeding the troll. It's fairly
> > clear that he's not listening, and I doubt that anyone will seriously
> > take any notice of him, as he's such an obvious monomaniac.
>
> Its also fairly obvious he won't be around for long before he gets
> killed by one of the many thousands of cyclicidal SUV drivers in his
> neighbourhood ;-)

A real possibility for me, like that of you getting killed by
terrorists. Well, they are both terrorists, right?
 
On Aug 2, 5:27 am, Mike Clark <[email protected]> wrote:
> In message <[email protected]>
> donquijote1954 <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Aug 1, 1:13 pm, Mike Clark <[email protected]> wrote:
> [snip]
> > > In contrast to the 'idea' of ever more separate lanes being good for
> > > improved safety there is the contradictory data that shows that in
> > > places where you remove all the lane markings, signs and junction
> > > priorities you often get a measurable increase in safety.
>
> > Should we erase the car lanes too? I think we could have bike lanes
> > and still enforce those breaking the law, so they can pay for more
> > bike lanes. Are you parked in the bike lane? You got a fine for 100
> > bucks...
>
> Yes the data is based on situations where all the lane markings and
> junction priorities, traffic lights etc are removed. Basically people
> stop driving as if they have a known priority and instead start looking
> out for and avoiding other road users.

OK, either lanes for all or lanes for none. When do we start that
campaign?
 
On Aug 2, 5:28 am, Tony Raven <[email protected]> wrote:
> Ace wrote:
> > On Thu, 02 Aug 2007 10:08:26 +0100, Tony Raven <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
>
> >> Ace wrote:
> >>> Alternatively, you could just stop feeding the troll. It's fairly
> >>> clear that he's not listening, and I doubt that anyone will seriously
> >>> take any notice of him, as he's such an obvious monomaniac.
>
> >> Its also fairly obvious he won't be around for long before he gets
> >> killed by one of the many thousands of cyclicidal SUV drivers in his
> >> neighbourhood ;-)
>
> > That'd be a shame.
>
> Or an exaggeration.

Well, *I* exaggerated. My risk of getting killed by road terrorism is
greater, much greater, than you getting killed by the other type of
terrorism.

I saw a bumper sticker today that here is quite revolutionary: SLOWER
TRAFFIC KEEP TO THE RIGHT... AVOID ROAD RAGE! That must be a communist
attempt at bringing regulation to our roads. We want to zigzag if we
please, and drive our SUVs while on the phone if we want, so we can
remain a free nation!

Rage is part of life in the jungle, and the strong shall survive.
Hallelujah!
 

> donquijote1954 wrote:
>
>> Letting bikes loose out on the roads can be dangerous. Better channel
>> them through bike lanes.

I think letting you loose out of your cell would be dangerous.

Wayne
 
"Jack May" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Jens Mller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> How many people get killed with bikes on the carriageway each year? Here
>> in Germany, you can count them on one hand. But there are dozens getting
>> killed by turning cars whose drivers don't look at the bike path.
>
> In the US bikes and pedestrians have the highest death rates of all forms
> of transportation except motorcycles. I think the rate is two and times
> higher than cars according to a recent news report. I have not tried to
> find the statistics.

And, of course, the leading cause of death for bicyclists and pedestrians is
getting hit by a car -- not that it's included in car fatalities, like it
would be if they were hit by a train.

For motorcycles, it's probably a toss-up between rider stupidity and car
drivers.

S

--
Stephen Sprunk "Those people who think they know everything
CCIE #3723 are a great annoyance to those of us who do."
K5SSS --Isaac Asimov


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
 
Joe the Aroma WHO? wrote:
> "Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> However, I stand by my statement that the free-market has failed,
>> since there is no real free-market health care system in the US.
>
> Seeing as it's never really been tried, except perhaps many moons ago when
> health care was nowhere near as complex and expensive as it is now, I think
> it's hasty to make that conclusion.

My point exactly. The FREE MARKET is failing to provide free market
health care in the U.S.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
 
"donquijote1954" who? wrote:
> On Aug 1, 9:55 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "donquijote1954" who? wrote:
>>> ...
>>> Thank you for explaining so well what I have in mind. Actually that's
>>> the idea behind...
>>> http://www.cafepress.com/burncalories
>> I think a better solution would be two jerseys [1]. In the morning [2],
>> the jersey worn would say in large letters on the back "RIDING TO WORK".
>> The afternoon jersey would say "RIDING HOME FROM WORK".
>>
>> [1] Or a reversible sign for recumbents.
>> [2] Reverse for night shift workers.
>
> Yeah, but then you need more like, "RIDING TO THE MARKET," "RIDING TO
> HAVE A DATE," etc. ;)

The point is the motorists (with half a brain) will understand that you
are just another poor schulb going to work.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
 
"donquijote1954" WHO? wrote:
> On Aug 2, 5:28 am, Tony Raven <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Ace wrote:
>>> On Thu, 02 Aug 2007 10:08:26 +0100, Tony Raven <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Ace wrote:
>>>>> Alternatively, you could just stop feeding the troll. It's fairly
>>>>> clear that he's not listening, and I doubt that anyone will seriously
>>>>> take any notice of him, as he's such an obvious monomaniac.
>>>> Its also fairly obvious he won't be around for long before he gets
>>>> killed by one of the many thousands of cyclicidal SUV drivers in his
>>>> neighbourhood ;-)
>>> That'd be a shame.
>> Or an exaggeration.
>
> Well, *I* exaggerated. My risk of getting killed by road terrorism is
> greater, much greater, than you getting killed by the other type of
> terrorism.
>
> I saw a bumper sticker today that here is quite revolutionary: SLOWER
> TRAFFIC KEEP TO THE RIGHT... AVOID ROAD RAGE! That must be a communist
> attempt at bringing regulation to our roads. We want to zigzag if we
> please, and drive our SUVs while on the phone if we want, so we can
> remain a free nation!
>
> Rage is part of life in the jungle, and the strong shall survive.
> Hallelujah!

People that pass on the right or drive slower than traffic in the left
lane (reverse for Japan and Commonwealth islands) should have their
vehicles crushed in a public spectacle.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
 
"donquijote1954" WHO? wrote:
> On Aug 2, 12:02 am, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Pat who? wrote:
>>> ...If you don't like it, go talk to the lawmakers.
>> That is not a practical suggestion for those of us who can not afford to
>> attend $1000/plate fund-raising dinners.
>>
>
> That's only the price to get in. To get listened to you need at least
> 100 times that amount.

See <http://www.tpj.org/docs/pioneers/pioneers_table.jsp> for a list of
those who have collected "bundled" contributions to Bush the Lesser of
$100,000 or more.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
 
Wayne Pein wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>> I'd prefer not to have bike lanes, I'd much rather have wide curb
>> lanes without the magical paint stripe.
>> Paint doesn't actually stop reckless drivers from hitting things, but
>> it does stop careful drivers from driving to the right when there
>> isn't a bike present. That means the bike lane doesn't get swept by
>> passing cars, so it builds up broken glass and radial tire wires.

> Bike lanes collect debris? Preposterous!
>
> http://www.humantransport.org/bicycledriving/library/Debris.pdf (2.34 MB)

Fig 4 was interesting - you get the debris but at least the potholes
are out of your way.

But on balance I'd still rather do without the cycle lane - especially
with a 15-foot lane overall.

Colin McKenzie

--
No-one has ever proved that cycle helmets make cycling any safer at
the population level, and anyway cycling is about as safe per mile as
walking.
Make an informed choice - visit www.cyclehelmets.org.
 

> No-one has ever proved that cycle helmets make cycling any safer at
> the population level, and anyway cycling is about as safe per mile as
> walking.
> Make an informed choice - visitwww.cyclehelmets.org.

Except the fact that your going a lot faster with a lot less
control....
 
William wrote:
>> No-one has ever proved that cycle helmets make cycling any safer at
>> the population level, and anyway cycling is about as safe per mile as
>> walking.
>> Make an informed choice - visitwww.cyclehelmets.org.
>
> Except the fact that your going a lot faster with a lot less
> control....

However fast and control free you might be, it doesn't alter the fact
that wearing a helmet has a track record of not improving serious head
injury rates in populations that adopt them.

That's what happens. It's what has always happened anywhere we look.
"Not safer" is "not safer". It's not "not safer, except...", it's "not
safer". And that's based on their actual, real world performance, not a
pious hope or a theory.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 
On Aug 2, 5:50 pm, Wayne Pein <[email protected]> wrote:
> > donquijote1954 wrote:
>
> >> Letting bikes loose out on the roads can be dangerous. Better channel
> >> them through bike lanes.
>
> I think letting you loose out of your cell would be dangerous.

Sorry, cell phones are mostly dangerous when driving an SUV.
 
On Aug 2, 6:09 pm, Martin Dann <[email protected]> wrote:

> As I don't live in the USA, I

Maybe that's why you don't understand what's going on here. Slower
vehicles don't have to drive on the right at all, nor should drivers
pay be paying attention to driving, simply you get these SUV behemoths
whistling past you that leave you shaking in your commitment to ride
anymore.

>
> It is my opinion, and that of a great many cyclists that
> cycles should be on the main road, not segregated and
> pushed onto poor facilities.

Why do they have to be poor?

>
> > I'm simply not going to let you people get away with this garbage.
> > It is completely dishonest.
>
> What is dishonest is promoting second class cycling
> facilities as a good idea.-

Are you actually saying that Holland is a very discriminatory country?
They got something like 20,000km of bike lanes and seem pretty
democratic to me. Actually they are much more democratic than those
places where SUVs and rule the roads.
 
On Aug 2, 6:33 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> On Aug 2, 2:37 pm, [email protected] (Bill Z.) wrote:
>
>
>
> > I've been passed while driving by a speeding vehicle that decided to
> > use a bike lane to get by, even though there was no on-coming traffic
> > and the road was completely straight. You can always find some idiot
> > on the road who is competely irresponsible. What else is new? It
> > simply has nothing to do with bike lanes - they'll do something
> > incredibly stupid regardless.
>
> You don't seem to realize that the incident you describe argues
> against the common pro-bike lane idea - "If only I could be separated
> from cars by a white line, I'd be safe."
>
> In the real world, the white stripe does not protect you. It merely
> shows where the glass and gravel begin.

Don't be such a pessimist. Our cities don't have to be like Mexico.
And you can have lots of people to go out and try a new sport. The
chihuahua says, "Amigo, I want bike lanes!"
 
On Aug 3, 10:16 am, donquijote1954 <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Aug 2, 6:09 pm, Martin Dann <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > As I don't live in the USA, I
>
> Maybe that's why you don't understand what's going on here. Slower
> vehicles don't have to drive on the right at all, nor should drivers
> pay be paying attention to driving, simply you get these SUV behemoths
> whistling past you that leave you shaking in your commitment to ride
> anymore.

What?? Please explain what you mean by saying,'nor should drivers pay
be paying attention to driving.' Because most drivers (in the US) I
see are paying attention to the road.

I ride most days along side SUV behemoths here in Texas and they've
not put me or any of my friends off riding. Maybe it's how you ride
that's causing you too many close encounters with other road users.
 
On Aug 2, 9:38 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
<[email protected]> wrote:

> > I saw a bumper sticker today that here is quite revolutionary: SLOWER
> > TRAFFIC KEEP TO THE RIGHT... AVOID ROAD RAGE! That must be a communist
> > attempt at bringing regulation to our roads. We want to zigzag if we
> > please, and drive our SUVs while on the phone if we want, so we can
> > remain a free nation!
>
> > Rage is part of life in the jungle, and the strong shall survive.
> > Hallelujah!
>
> People that pass on the right or drive slower than traffic in the left
> lane (reverse for Japan and Commonwealth islands) should have their
> vehicles crushed in a public spectacle.

And should be able to earn the label "terrorist," cause they cause a
lot of destruction, mayhem and death to innocent parties.
 
On Aug 2, 11:34 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
<[email protected]> wrote:

> > Besides, if "separate but equal" is the law of the land in many areas,
> > particularly applied to those who live beyond walled communities, I
> > don't see why it should apply to bikes and SUVs. They do NOT mix, just
> > as lions and monkeys.
>
> Some of the monkeys (ok, apes) learned to walk upright and used their
> now free forelimbs to make and hold weapons. The lions learned to stay
> well away from these otherwise slow and weak creatures.\

The lions learned to wait until the monkeys killed each other for them
to have a good lunch. Yep, lions are scavengers too!
 
On Aug 3, 12:56 pm, Marz <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Aug 3, 10:16 am, donquijote1954 <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > On Aug 2, 6:09 pm, Martin Dann <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > As I don't live in the USA, I
>
> > Maybe that's why you don't understand what's going on here. Slower
> > vehicles don't have to drive on the right at all, nor should drivers
> > pay be paying attention to driving, simply you get these SUV behemoths
> > whistling past you that leave you shaking in your commitment to ride
> > anymore.
>
> What?? Please explain what you mean by saying,'nor should drivers pay
> be paying attention to driving.' Because most drivers (in the US) I
> see are paying attention to the road.
>
> I ride most days along side SUV behemoths here in Texas and they've
> not put me or any of my friends off riding. Maybe it's how you ride
> that's causing you too many close encounters with other road users.

They simply are NOT paying attention to a large extent. If you are on
the cell phone you are NOT paying any more attention than if you had a
six pack of beer. And tell MADD that's a good thing.
 
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