Can you make it to the market on a bike?



Bill Z. wrote:

> Wayne Pein <[email protected]> writes:
>
>
>>Bill Z. wrote:
>>
>>>>I don't have preconceptions. Give me the citation.
>>>
>>>I posted a citation a few days ago on this thread. Look the damn
>>>thing
>>>up yourself. I'm not going to post it twice just for you.
>>>

>>
>>You'd rather spew venom than give me a citation.

>
>
> Projection - you are the guy who's been spewing venom left and right.
>
> Given how rude you are, just why should I go around looking up a citation
> I posted a few days ago and that you ignored or didn't see, just to post
> it again. I've better things to do with my time.
>


Yet you sit in your underware and type the above.

Crybaby.

Wayne
 
Wayne Pein <[email protected]> writes:

> Bill Z. wrote:
>
>
> > : ROTFLMAO. Why don't you try to violate some in front of a police
> > : officer and run that argument by the judge? I'm snipping the rest of
> > : your post because you are quite frankly babbling, and I don't have
> > : the patience to bother with it.
> >

>
> Chapel Hill, NC has an illegitimate law which I've been pulled over 4
> times by police officers for "violating." I had been fully using the
> right lane of a 4 lane road.
>
> Sec. 21-43.(c)When using a roadway, bicyclists shall ride as far to
> the right as practicable, exercising due care when passing a standing
> vehicle or one proceeding in the same direction, and shall not pass
> standing or slower moving vehicles in their lane on the right except
> as permitted by G.S. 20-150.1.
>
> In each case I told them the law was illegitmate, and they left.
>
> So yea, some of us aren't sheep like you. We know and exercise our rights.


So, the idiot Wayne Pein thinks people are "sheep" for pointing out
that state laws that are (a) constitution, (b) passed by the
legislature, and (c) signed by the governor are legitimate laws!
Rather than admit the obvious, Pein goes for an infantile ad hominem
argument. How childish can you get?

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB
 
Wayne Pein <[email protected]> writes:

> Bill Z. wrote:
>
> > Wayne Pein <[email protected]> writes:

>
> Of course bike lane stripes have no adverse impact on anyone :) Lots
> of bicyclists just love to complain about them because they like to
> complain.
>
> Can you say anything more assine?


Rather, what is "assine [sic]" is Pein's whining and disembling - what
you really have are a few very vocal bicyclists whining about bike lanes
when the vast majority don't have any objections to properly designed
lanes, regardless of whether they feel the lanes help them.

Pein has yet to explain why a bike lane stripe is worse than a
shoulder stripe place a foot or two to the right of where the bike
lane stripe is.

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB
 
Wayne Pein <[email protected]> writes:

> Bill Z. wrote:
>
>
> > Most experienced bicylists can handle bike lanes just fine, and
> > find that ones in compliance with the current standards are not
> > a problem (ones that are substandard can be a problem). I know
> > people who have ridden across the U.S. who have no objections to
> > properly designed bike lanes.
> > So, why don't you cut your infantile ad hominem arguments? You
> > are just making yourself look like a fool.
> >

>
> Why should experienced bicyclists have to "handle" bike lanes when
> they can already handle normal non-bike lane roads. Why do we have to
> adjust our riding for cry babies like you?


The "handling" is the same in each, bike lanes or not, and the only
person crying about it is you, a classic case of projection as you
try to pass your own infantile behavior off on me.


--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB
 
Wayne Pein <[email protected]> writes:

> Bill Z. wrote:
>
> > Wayne Pein <[email protected]> writes:
> >>Bill Z. wrote:
> >>>>I don't have preconceptions. Give me the citation.
> >>>I posted a citation a few days ago on this thread. Look the damn
> >>>thing up yourself. I'm not going to post it twice just for you.
> >>You'd rather spew venom than give me a citation.

>
> > Projection - you are the guy who's been spewing venom left and
> > right. Given how rude you are, just why should I go around
> > looking up a citation I posted a few days ago and that you ignored
> > or didn't see, just to post it again. I've better things to do
> > with my time.

>
> Yet you sit in your underware and type the above.
>
> Crybaby.


ROTFLMAO - classic projection just as I said! You are the guy
spewing all the venom! You are reduced to acting like a little
boy spouting insults. And over what? Bike lanes? Grow up.

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB
 
On Jul 31, 4:46 pm, Wayne Pein <[email protected]> wrote:
> Bill Z. wrote:
>
> > Most experienced bicylists can handle bike lanes just fine, and
> > find that ones in compliance with the current standards are not
> > a problem (ones that are substandard can be a problem). I know
> > people who have ridden across the U.S. who have no objections to
> > properly designed bike lanes.

>
> > So, why don't you cut your infantile ad hominem arguments? You
> > are just making yourself look like a fool.

>
> Why should experienced bicyclists have to "handle" bike lanes when they
> can already handle normal non-bike lane roads. Why do we have to adjust
> our riding for cry babies like you?


One basic reason YOU NEED BIKE LANES is that when you don't have them,
YOU ARE LEFT WITH NO LANES. THE CARS THINK (AND ACT) LIKE THEY OWN THE
LANES, all of them. And since you are at a little thing at the bottom
of the food chain, drivers can shout at you, throw things at you, and
even spit at you --or simply run you over. And UNDER THAT SORT OF
TERROR CYCLISTS MUST SURVIVE...

(same lady quoted above)

Mr. Irate Motorist, just how many lanes do you want?
A familiar sound. Behind me, "HONK HONK!" Sigh. Here we go again.
"HONK HONK HONK!!!" I maintain my position in the center of the lane
as it's too narrow to share with a car. I'm on Division, a one way
street, three lanes, very light traffic, but Mr. Irate Motorist is
****** off that I've taken one of three lanes. Most people just change
lanes to pass me, like they would any other slow-moving vehicle, but
Mr. Irate Motorist slows to my pace, window rolled down, half in my
lane, half in the next, beside me. "BLAH BLAH BLAH SHOULDN'T BE ON THE
ROAD BLAH BLAH BLAH SPEED LIMIT BLAH BLAH BLAH!!!" I can't understand
half of what he's saying, but I imagine it's what I've heard before.
He thinks I shouldn't be on the road since I can't maintain the speed
limit. Do people even understand anymore that the speed limit is
supposed to be the maximum speed allowed, not the minimum? I suppose
not, since the police don't ticket anyone unless they're going well
over the posted limit.

I yell over his words, "THERE'S A PASSING LANE! THERE'S A PASSING
LANE! THERE'S A PASSING LANE!" over and over, as clearly as I can, all
the way to Ann, where I turn right and continue my journey to work.
After I turn I glance back and see a police car on Division,
continuing past Ann. No flashing lights though. I would think the
police officer would have witnessed the motorist driving half in one
lane, half in the other for several blocks, keeping pace with me while
I was yelling. Didn't it occur to the officer that the motorist was
harassing me? If it did, police don't seem to think harassment of
cyclists is a problem.

My thoughts returned to Mr. Irate Motorist. What I had said to him
was, "There's a passing lane." What I should have said was, "You've
got two passing lanes! This road is three lanes wide! Just how many
lanes do you want? Quit harassing me, you dumbass!" Some motorists are
like grown up versions of possessive children who don't want to share
their toys. It isn't that they're able to play with all of their toys
themselves simultaneously; they just don't want anyone else to play
with anything. They want everything for themselves.

I have a hunch that if someone did a study they would find that the
motorists who harass cyclists, don't want them on "their" roads, argue
about maintaining speed limits, paying road taxes, and all the other
ridiculous things cyclists have all heard, are the same people who
were possessive children who didn't want to share toys or take turns
on playground equipment. It isn't about speed limits or road taxes.
It's about personality. One develops one's essential personality as a
young child. It's a core part of one's being. Interests and skills
will come and go throughout life, and beliefs may change, but
personality isn't going to change much.

I'm not a parent, and I realize there are different approaches to
parenting. I have no idea what works. How do you deal with a little
kid who wants to have all the toys? How do you get little Billy to get
it into his thick little head that it doesn't really matter that he
wants all the toys? Other kids want to play too. If he keeps all the
toys to himself, he's being a jerk. Is there some way to make him see
that?

If there is, that's what we need to do with grown up Bill. We need to
make him see that it really doesn't matter that he wants the whole
road to himself. Other people need to use it too. If he tries to keep
the whole road to himself, he's being a jerk.

http://www.riinsrants.info/bikes/howmany.htm
 
Bill Z. wrote:

>
> Pein has yet to explain why a bike lane stripe is worse than a
> shoulder stripe place a foot or two to the right of where the bike
> lane stripe is.
>


Zauman,

I have not idea what your garbled sentence means.

Wayne
 
Bill Z. wrote:

>
> The "handling" is the same in each, bike lanes or not, and the only
> person crying about it is you, a classic case of projection as you
> try to pass your own infantile behavior off on me.
>


Sorry. But adding a bike lane changes the rules of the road and the way
operating a bike or a motor vehicle is handled. But bike lane
appologists don't recognize this. They just want to be comfortable.

Wayne
 
Bill Z. wrote:


>
> ROTFLMAO - classic projection just as I said! You are the guy
> spewing all the venom! You are reduced to acting like a little
> boy spouting insults. And over what? Bike lanes? Grow up.
>


Damn, you are fool. Get off the floor Zauman!

Wayne
 
Bill Z. wrote:

> Wayne Pein <[email protected]> writes:


> So, the idiot Wayne Pein thinks people are "sheep" for pointing out
> that state laws that are (a) constitution, (b) passed by the
> legislature, and (c) signed by the governor are legitimate laws!
> Rather than admit the obvious, Pein goes for an infantile ad hominem
> argument. How childish can you get?
>


Zauman,

You're a crybaby sheep bike lane apologist. You can't recognize an
illegitimate law, or have the courage to stand up to it. For you, if
it's written it must be legitimate. Signed by the Girlyman governor!

Wayne
 
"donquijote1954" who? wrote:
> ...
> One basic reason YOU NEED BIKE LANES is that when you don't have them,
> YOU ARE LEFT WITH NO LANES. THE CARS THINK (AND ACT) LIKE THEY OWN THE
> LANES, all of them. And since you are at a little thing at the bottom
> of the food chain, drivers can shout at you, throw things at you, and
> even spit at you --or simply run you over. And UNDER THAT SORT OF
> TERROR CYCLISTS MUST SURVIVE...
>
> (same lady quoted above)
>
> Mr. Irate Motorist, just how many lanes do you want?
> A familiar sound. Behind me, "HONK HONK!" Sigh. Here we go again.
> "HONK HONK HONK!!!" I maintain my position in the center of the lane
> as it's too narrow to share with a car. I'm on Division, a one way
> street, three lanes, very light traffic, but Mr. Irate Motorist is
> ****** off that I've taken one of three lanes. Most people just change
> lanes to pass me, like they would any other slow-moving vehicle, but
> Mr. Irate Motorist slows to my pace, window rolled down, half in my
> lane, half in the next, beside me. "BLAH BLAH BLAH SHOULDN'T BE ON THE
> ROAD BLAH BLAH BLAH SPEED LIMIT BLAH BLAH BLAH!!!" I can't understand
> half of what he's saying, but I imagine it's what I've heard before.
> He thinks I shouldn't be on the road since I can't maintain the speed
> limit. Do people even understand anymore that the speed limit is
> supposed to be the maximum speed allowed, not the minimum? I suppose
> not, since the police don't ticket anyone unless they're going well
> over the posted limit.
>
> I yell over his words, "THERE'S A PASSING LANE! THERE'S A PASSING
> LANE! THERE'S A PASSING LANE!" over and over, as clearly as I can, all
> the way to Ann, where I turn right and continue my journey to work.
> After I turn I glance back and see a police car on Division,
> continuing past Ann. No flashing lights though. I would think the
> police officer would have witnessed the motorist driving half in one
> lane, half in the other for several blocks, keeping pace with me while
> I was yelling. Didn't it occur to the officer that the motorist was
> harassing me? If it did, police don't seem to think harassment of
> cyclists is a problem.
>
> My thoughts returned to Mr. Irate Motorist. What I had said to him
> was, "There's a passing lane." What I should have said was, "You've
> got two passing lanes! This road is three lanes wide! Just how many
> lanes do you want? Quit harassing me, you dumbass!" Some motorists are
> like grown up versions of possessive children who don't want to share
> their toys. It isn't that they're able to play with all of their toys
> themselves simultaneously; they just don't want anyone else to play
> with anything. They want everything for themselves.
>
> I have a hunch that if someone did a study they would find that the
> motorists who harass cyclists, don't want them on "their" roads, argue
> about maintaining speed limits, paying road taxes, and all the other
> ridiculous things cyclists have all heard, are the same people who
> were possessive children who didn't want to share toys or take turns
> on playground equipment. It isn't about speed limits or road taxes.
> It's about personality. One develops one's essential personality as a
> young child. It's a core part of one's being. Interests and skills
> will come and go throughout life, and beliefs may change, but
> personality isn't going to change much.
>
> I'm not a parent, and I realize there are different approaches to
> parenting. I have no idea what works. How do you deal with a little
> kid who wants to have all the toys? How do you get little Billy to get
> it into his thick little head that it doesn't really matter that he
> wants all the toys? Other kids want to play too. If he keeps all the
> toys to himself, he's being a jerk. Is there some way to make him see
> that?


Tell Little Billy that he is unworthy as a person and if he keeps on
behaving that way you will no longer love him. If that does not work,
take away ALL his toys and don't let him play with the other children
until he learns to behave. If this fails, turn him over to the custody
of the state.

> If there is, that's what we need to do with grown up Bill. We need to
> make him see that it really doesn't matter that he wants the whole
> road to himself. Other people need to use it too. If he tries to keep
> the whole road to himself, he's being a jerk....


Big Billy also needs to be taught a lesson. Videotaping the behavior
would be a good start. Send the video to the local police, and if that
does not help, send it to all the local television stations. Complain
to the police commission, alderman, mayor, etc, and make yourself a
nuisance until someone does something.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
 
Wayne Pein wrote:
> ...
> Yet you sit in your underware [sic] and type the above....


While using softwear (sic), no doubt.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
 
Bill Zaumen wrote:
> ...
> Pein has yet to explain why a bike lane stripe is worse than a
> shoulder stripe place a foot or two to the right of where the bike
> lane stripe is.


The bicycle lane leads motor vehicles operators (who are not cyclists)
to believe that cyclists should be confined to bike lanes, bike paths,
etc. This creates an especial difficulty when needing to make a left
turn [1], since the cagers wonder "what the hell is the cyclist doing
out of the bike lane?"

[1] Right turn for the Japanese and Commonwealth islands.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
 
Wayne Pein <[email protected]> writes:

> Bill Z. wrote:
>
> > Pein has yet to explain why a bike lane stripe is worse than a
> > shoulder stripe place a foot or two to the right of where the bike
> > lane stripe is.
> >

>
> Zauman,
>
> I have not idea what your garbled sentence means.
>
> Wayne


Playing dumb?

Aside from a typo ("place" should have been "placed"), it should be
clear enough for even you to understand. Here's a picture comparing
the two:

------- bike lane stripe --------
*** cyclist ****
____________ shoulder stripe_____________

with a bike lane stripe, you'd nominally ride just inside the
bike lane. With a shoulder stripe, you would normally ride as
far the right on the roadway as is practicable (that's what the
traffic laws say), which puts you just outside the shoulder.

With a shoulder stripe placed a couple of feet to the right of
where a bike lane stripe would go, the cyclist is in the same
position on the roadway.

So what's the problem? You'd ride in about the same position on
the roadway regardless.

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB
 
Wayne Pein <[email protected]> writes:

> Bill Z. wrote:
>
> > The "handling" is the same in each, bike lanes or not, and the only
> > person crying about it is you, a classic case of projection as you
> > try to pass your own infantile behavior off on me.
> >

>
> Sorry. But adding a bike lane changes the rules of the road and the
> way operating a bike or a motor vehicle is handled. But bike lane
> appologists don't recognize this. They just want to be comfortable.


Adding a bike lane does not change the rules of the road.

In my state, cyclists riding at less then the normal speed of traffic
have to use a bike lane (when installed in accordance with state
standards), but not cylcist riding as fast or faster than other
traffic, and there are a number of exceptions to the requirement to
use a bike lane: to pass something, avoid a hazard, prepare for a left
turn, or when approaching a place where a right turn is permitted.
Drivers are required to stay out of bike lanes except when turning
across one, in which case they must merge into the bike lane and may
start merging when within 200 feet of a turn.

Pretty simple, and there is nothing to get upset about.

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB
 
On Jul 31, 7:53 pm, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Big Billy also needs to be taught a lesson. Videotaping the behavior
> would be a good start. Send the video to the local police, and if that
> does not help, send it to all the local television stations. Complain
> to the police commission, alderman, mayor, etc, and make yourself a
> nuisance until someone does something.
>


I saw somewhere I video camera that attaches to your helmet. That
would come real handy, but it would turn you into a vigilante fighting
the bad guys on the road. And that would make you more crazy than
DonQuixote fighting the windmills as there too many reckless drivers
out there.
 
Wayne Pein <[email protected]> writes:

> Bill Z. wrote:
>
>
> > ROTFLMAO - classic projection just as I said! You are the guy
> > spewing all the venom! You are reduced to acting like a little
> > boy spouting insults. And over what? Bike lanes? Grow up.
> >

>
> Damn, you are fool. Get off the floor Zauman!


(Of course, being embarassed by his behavior, Pein snipped his
infantile insults before replying.)

Pein, why don't you get some professional help for your problem? You
might start with an anger-management class, although a psychiatrist
might be able to give you a more apropos suggestion.

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB
 
Wayne Pein <[email protected]> writes:

> Bill Z. wrote:
>
> > Wayne Pein <[email protected]> writes:

>
> > So, the idiot Wayne Pein thinks people are "sheep" for pointing out
> > that state laws that are (a) constitution, (b) passed by the
> > legislature, and (c) signed by the governor are legitimate laws!
> > Rather than admit the obvious, Pein goes for an infantile ad hominem
> > argument. How childish can you get?
> >

>
> Zauman,
>
> You're a crybaby sheep bike lane apologist. You can't recognize an
> illegitimate law, or have the courage to stand up to it. For you, if
> it's written it must be legitimate. Signed by the Girlyman governor!


Did you pass your high school civics class? It wouldn't surprise me
if you didn't given that you are acting like a child. How old are
you, anyway?

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB
 
Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman <[email protected]> writes:

> Bill Zaumen wrote:
> > ...
> > Pein has yet to explain why a bike lane stripe is worse than a
> > shoulder stripe place a foot or two to the right of where the bike
> > lane stripe is.

>
> The bicycle lane leads motor vehicles operators (who are not cyclists)
> to believe that cyclists should be confined to bike lanes, bike paths,
> etc. This creates an especial difficulty when needing to make a left
> turn [1], since the cagers wonder "what the hell is the cyclist doing
> out of the bike lane?"


Except it is not true - that is simply a bogus argument some people
have put out. Look up the California Driver's Handbook
<http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/driver_handbook_toc.htm> and
specifically <http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/pgs55thru57.htm#bike>:

"Bicyclists on public streets have the same rights and
responsibilities as automobile drivers. Respect the
right-of-way of bicyclists because they are entitled to share
the road with other drivers."

Also <http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/pgs22thru25.htm#bike_ln>:

"A bicycle lane is shown by a solid white line along either
side of the street, four or more feet from the curb. The white
line will usually be broken near the corner and the words
"BIKE LANE" will be painted in the lane. When you are making a
right turn and are within 200 feet of the corner or other
driveway entrance, you must enter the bike lane for the
turn. Do not drive in the bike lane at any other time."

You have to read this handbook to pass the California driver's test.
Drivers know what the rules are. If they harrass you anyway, it is
not because they weren't taught the rules. It's because they don't
care.

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB
 
Bill Zaumen wrote:
> Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman writes:
>
> > Bill Zaumen wrote:
> > > ...
> > > Pein has yet to explain why a bike lane stripe is worse than a
> > > shoulder stripe place a foot or two to the right of where the bike
> > > lane stripe is.

>
> > The bicycle lane leads motor vehicles operators (who are not cyclists)
> > to believe that cyclists should be confined to bike lanes, bike paths,
> > etc. This creates an especial difficulty when needing to make a left
> > turn [1], since the cagers wonder "what the hell is the cyclist doing
> > out of the bike lane?"

>
> Except it is not true - that is simply a bogus argument some people
> have put out. Look up the California Driver's Handbook
> <http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/driver_handbook_toc.htm> and
> specifically <http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/pgs55thru57.htm#bike>:
>
> "Bicyclists on public streets have the same rights and
> responsibilities as automobile drivers. Respect the
> right-of-way of bicyclists because they are entitled to share
> the road with other drivers."
>
> Also <http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/pgs22thru25.htm#bike_ln>:
>
> "A bicycle lane is shown by a solid white line along either
> side of the street, four or more feet from the curb. The white
> line will usually be broken near the corner and the words
> "BIKE LANE" will be painted in the lane. When you are making a
> right turn and are within 200 feet of the corner or other
> driveway entrance, you must enter the bike lane for the
> turn. Do not drive in the bike lane at any other time."
>
> You have to read this handbook to pass the California driver's test.
> Drivers know what the rules are. If they harrass you anyway, it is
> not because they weren't taught the rules. It's because they don't
> care.


Bah. I don't believe it for a second. Most drivers learn enough of the
rules to pass the written test ONCE while in their teens. The average
driver has likely not been forced to learn the rules of the road in 25
years. Furthermore, most driver education classes do not even mention
bicycles (mine didn't).

If it were up to me, those without a basic understanding of
kinematics, dynamics, theoretical vehicle handling and a comprehensive
grasp of not only the traffic law but the fundamental principles and
historical basis of right-of-way would not be allow to operate motor
vehicles.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful