broken clavicle...surgery or not?

[bsbs1876]

Originally Posted by willy81

hey, what's up guys?
How are you doing?
Just a few words about me. The numbness at the impact spot now has gone, it took me 16 months. Now it feels just normal.
This numbness had to do with the crash and not with the surgery. The hit was very severe and the muscles, the tissue suffered, or better atrophied.
It took though 16 months to recover.

I still have the plate which I will have it out some time in the future.

I don't take any special care about my shoulder anymore. It feels strong and I lift quite heavy.

Hope you are doing OK.

Glad to hear your numbness is doing better, *****.

I am doing fine these days. I have the odd day where the shoulder feels sore but I never let it have an impact on what I do. I do more than I did before the accident. I think it's almost because I feel like I have to prove something to myself now.

Still waiting to set up a date for my hardware removal. Will update when I know more.

Take care, all.

 

[Anything But]

I was wondering how anyone wants to have the plate taken off if not necessary. My scar is so tightly attached to the bone or at least the underlaying tissue that I fear any operation that may come after the first one. I've watched the operations on youtube and they close 2-3 layers separately. How on earth can they do that with the scar tissue fastened together? I was riding a horse when I came down on my shoulder. The clavicle was treated with collar cuff for a week, but the bones were in a bad position after the week so the surgeons decided to operate. I went to the operation on day 10. It took 2,5 hours and afterwards the clavicle was in a quite different position that before. So on one side I have the ridge of the bone forward. I hope you understand what I mean. It's sort of slightly bent forward. On the side of the operation however, the ridge or the thin part seems to be right upward and the bone itself seems to be very high because it's seems to bent upwards and not forward. And more that that there is lasi the plate, adding the hight. I just hope it won't affect my healing process.

 

[bsbs1876]

Originally Posted by Anything But

I was wondering how anyone wants to have the plate taken off if not necessary. My scar is so tightly attached to the bone or at least the underlaying tissue that I fear any operation that may come after the first one. I've watched the operations on youtube and they close 2-3 layers separately. How on earth can they do that with the scar tissue fastened together?

I was riding a horse when I came down on my shoulder. The clavicle was treated with collar cuff for a week, but the bones were in a bad position after the week so the surgeons decided to operate. I went to the operation on day 10. It took 2,5 hours and afterwards the clavicle was in a quite different position that before.

So on one side I have the ridge of the bone forward. I hope you understand what I mean. It's sort of slightly bent forward. On the side of the operation however, the ridge or the thin part seems to be right upward and the bone itself seems to be very high because it's seems to bent upwards and not forward. And more that that there is lasi the plate, adding the hight. I just hope it won't affect my healing process.

When a surgeon removes hardware he also removes scar tissue. He basically cuts the entire scar out and attaches the undamaged skin to create a new scar. He does not stitch back together the scar tissue.

With a plate on the bone it should be fairly straight. It won't look like the other one because there is a plate there and it has calcified underneath so it will likely be thicker forever and a little bit off, but it shouldn't be too off. You need to get an x ray and make sure the bone looks straight. That's the important part. What you see on the outside involves many other things such as the hardware, muscles, scar tissue, tendons, swelling, atrophy, etc.

 

[willy81]

I was wondering how anyone wants to have the plate taken off if not necessary. My scar is so tightly attached to the bone or at least the underlaying tissue that I fear any operation that may come after the first one. I've watched the operations on youtube and they close 2-3 layers separately. How on earth can they do that with the scar tissue fastened together? I was riding a horse when I came down on my shoulder. The clavicle was treated with collar cuff for a week, but the bones were in a bad position after the week so the surgeons decided to operate. I went to the operation on day 10. It took 2,5 hours and afterwards the clavicle was in a quite different position that before. So on one side I have the ridge of the bone forward. I hope you understand what I mean. It's sort of slightly bent forward. On the side of the operation however, the ridge or the thin part seems to be right upward and the bone itself seems to be very high because it's seems to bent upwards and not forward. And more that that there is lasi the plate, adding the hight. I just hope it won't affect my healing process.

when did you have the surgery? I suppose relatively recently. You must give it time and everything will be fine as before. In the first several months things are difficult, you think that you will never be the same again but as the time passes by your bone heals, your scar mends, your muscles get more powerful and everything gets better. Be quite cautious not to hit it again, fall over,, also keep some distance from other people who accidentally can hit your shoulder.

 

[willy81]

bsbs, glad you are doing OK, it is rather reasonable to want to prove yourself after an injury like this. I am more active too. I am glad the numbness has gone, it was something that persisted too long, almost 16 months, and sometimes made me worry. I have not fixed a date for the 2nd surgery, it could be sometime in the spring.

 

[Anything But]

I actually looked at the x-rays and now I can't see any difference between the porinalla head of the clavicle between the two x-rays before operation and the two after them. However, the AC-joint is quite different in the pictures. After operation the distal end of the clavicle is quite a lot higher. I'm only 3,5 weeks after operation. I haven't had much problem even though I've been able to use my hand quite a lot, but only near trunk, so I haven't really lifted anything... much. Now I got permission (there was some ossification or whatever it's called visible I the last x-ray) to lift my arm without weight. And I feel more discomfort than before. I've also tried to sleep in bed again, maybe that's part of the discomfort (itching and pain).

 

[willy81]

all you describe is a situation well known to all of us who had the operation, 3.5 is way too early, I didn't lift my arm for almost 6 weeks and I didn't sleep on my affected side for at least 2.5 months, just give it time and be cautious, I will tell you something you will not believe, you don't need to have physio at all, your muscles will recover when they are ready, Physio will not make it come much earlier. I have been doing a lot of physio and, as I said above, the numbness disappeared without even noticing it and in a period of time (last October-till now) when I had rather little physio. You can't actually push things here, just live cautiously and everything will be fine.

 

[Anything But]

Sigh. It's been only 5 weeks (total) and I'll start working within 10 days, although the first week I'll be doing things that don't require me to lift left arm. I can't really sleep on either side. The only comfortable place is armchair and still I wake up all the time. I saw the physiotherapist on Wednesday and she said I had developed some problem with scapula. I got some exercises which I can start after 2-4 weeks and do only things I'm comfortable with. I don't probably get any more check ups so now I'm on my own.

 

[willy81]

What kind of problem? did your physiotherapist tell you? I am sure you have not developed any problem with your scapula apart from the normal stiffness which comes with those injuries and it will go away even you don't do any physio session at all. As your collar bones gets stronger your muscle system will return to its normal state with your normal every day activities. I had huge stiffness after the operation, everybody does, ask bsbs, it goes away with time.

 

[willy81]

you don't need anymore check ups, all you need is time, I was very frustrated too but it didn't help or didn't change anything. it is a difficult period for you but every day you will get better.

 

[bsbs1876]

You're like me. Impatient and worrying.

You gotta dig down deep and find whatever patience is inside you for the next month or so. Things are not going to feel normal for quite some time. At 3.5 weeks my arm felt like ****. Even after I got the clearance to go back to the gym at 3 months I had some winging scapula going on from atrophy. It took me so long to rehab the shoulder back to strength. I would say it was 5 months until I felt really good. I am now 9 months and things are great.

 

[willy81]

I don't know if they told you but don't raise your arm at all, keep it always close to your trunk, you could raise it after 2 months or so, the first six weeks is the critical period, don't lift more than 1Kg in this period ask more questions if you want. read this carefully http://www.physioroom.com/injuries/bone_fracture/4_soft_callus_formation.php

 

[bsbs1876]

I disagree with no physio though. Though you do not need to see a professional, you should still do stretches and exercises on your own when you are given consent. You have to keep the blood flowing and rebuild muscles which is essentially what physical therapy is. Being physical and using the arm/shoulder. Do the circular motions, do the wall stretches, do the small weights when allowed. You will thank me later.

 

[willy81]

bsbs is right, I meant you don't need professional physio, you can do everything at home, simple exercises at your pace as I have said in the past the best physio for me was in the swimming pool just trying to stay afloat for 30 minutes will be great for blood circulation, you don't need to swim up and down the pool

 

[Anything But]

The problem was minor. The scapula just overcompensates the movement of the shoulder. So it's normal stiffness I guess. My fiance had some physio because he had problem with shoulder. Needn't say he did more or less the same exercises that I got. So I'm going to do the exercise to avoid his problems... Actually his brother's clavicle broke last year in a biking accident. It healed crooked. But he can swim without problem now, among other things so I shouldn't complain. My other clavicle was broken when I was two. It healed so well I wouldn't even have known which side it was. But I was two, so it explains it. The first two weeks I was on a coach. That was so dull, and I guess I want to do something.. I was told I can swim after 2 months after operation. Same as about everything. I can ride 2 months post op. I really hope the numbness goes away like yours did, it's utterly frustrating to feel some itch and not be able to feel anything so I can't do anything about it.

 

[bsbs1876]

Hey, if you're a woman it's good you got the surgery. The crooked bone is ugly! The scar is sexy.

 

[alienator]

The problem was minor. The scapula just overcompensates the movement of the shoulder. So it's normal stiffness I guess. My fiance had some physio because he had problem with shoulder. Needn't say he did more or less the same exercises that I got. So I'm going to do the exercise to avoid his problems... Actually his brother's clavicle broke last year in a biking accident. It healed crooked. But he can swim without problem now, among other things so I shouldn't complain. My other clavicle was broken when I was two. It healed so well I wouldn't even have known which side it was. But I was two, so it explains it. The first two weeks I was on a coach. That was so dull, and I guess I want to do something.. I was told I can swim after 2 months after operation. Same as about everything. I can ride 2 months post op. I really hope the numbness goes away like yours did, it's utterly frustrating to feel some itch and not be able to feel anything so I can't do anything about it.

Note the willy81 is absolutely not a doctor, nor does he have the experience or qualifications to given the medical advice--certainly not to state absolutes as he does. Note that you should be asking the same questions of your orthopod and PT. Also note that willy81's PT experience is an n=1 sampling which means that is not necessarily indicative at all of value of PT. Again, it can't be said enough that if you have questions about your care, surgery, potential outcomes, and the like, ask your doc and PT. The absolute worst place to get advice is on an internet forum, except in the case when the advice is to see or ask the people providing your medical care. You should view this thread only as people sharing their experiences, not as a source of accurate or reliable medical information or a basis upon which you make a decision.

 

[Anything But]

Bsbs 1876 thanks, I usually don't mind about the scars. But this time, I really hope the scars from the staples will fade rather soon. Otherwise I'll be frankenbride. Alienator, thank you too. I have to admit, I've researched about this quite a bit and I'm able to get some professional advice if needed, but I probably won't have any more appointments from now on, so it's nice to hear other peoples experiences about this. I'm supposed to wait a good 4 more weeks before engaging into any activities, and some couple of months more before I can do some contact training. That I can understand. Sometimes itching means the tissues are healing. Now it's a mixture of itch and pain and I don't know, the skin is numb exept on the edges of numbness were it feels a light touch as pain. Anyway, when itching and pain occurs together, my first thought is not the healing process. So I'll lay down on any activities for now and see how it goes. There's just so much I'd want to do but can't. It's still better now than the first awful two weeks when I truly was disabled.

 

[willy81]

AB, your situation is well known to all of us who had the surgery and all we can tell you is that you need to be patient, time will mend everything, try to be very careful and not to lift weight for at least 2.5 months, there are cases that the plate broke just because the person lifted excessive weight, that's a very unfortunate outcome but it is up to you to protect yourself. there are two kinds of numbness, one is along the scar, this will go away in few moths, for sure, it has happened to me, it has happened to bsbs, don't worry about it, it is annoying, I know, but it will go away. This is the kind of numbness you describe. There is a second type of numbness, it does not happen to all though, this kind of numbness has to do with the impact during the crash. It usually affects the Anterior Deltoids muscles because this is the point of impact. This kind of numbness affected me and it took me about 16 months to disappear. Of course it does not happen to others, it happened to me because my crash was very severe and those muscles, the tissue not the entire muscle, atrophied for some time. So all kind of numbness will go away with time too. As you understand there is no much to do apart from protecting yourself from a fall or other accidents or people who might push against your shoulder accidentally. In fact you must change the way you move a little, be careful as you walk, the doors and everything that comes near to you. Make slower moves and keep always in mind that you are not suppose to use your affected arm. I kept mine in a sling for at least 6-8 weeks when I was out or in a crowded place just to make other people see that I am injured and that I need special care. even at home I used the sling because it was more comfortable and restricted me from using my arm. and YES "The scapula just overcompensates the movement of the shoulder. So it's normal stiffness I guess." and YES it is normal and it has happened to all of us. But there is nothing wrong with your scapula. The surrounding muscles work a little more and this makes them feel awkward. ask more questions if you want!

 

[Anything But]

Willy81, now I really feel I'm complaining about nothing I only fell off a horse that stopped galloping all af a suden, but the landing seemed clean to others. I rolled nicely after I hit on my shoulder and helmet. I didn't recognize the collarbone had bent on it's proximal end, I only noticed after the surgery that I can't feel it's "angle", the pointy part above sternum. I threw the collar cuff in the corner as soon as I got home from the operation. It caused more pain than releaved, so the only places I had it, was among crowds, the same reason you did, to perheet people bumping into me. One man did, and he look devastated. It didn't hurt, though. But when I had the collar cuff I had to take pain killers for headache. Besides, the collar cuff made me crouch forward so that the shoulder was in a bad position. I really carried things with the collar cuff, too. It have a good support.. I thought it was a bummer that the scar itself feels pain (removing staples pinched), and the numb area is appr. about the size of a palm. It is actually better already. I think I can feel the skin on my shoulder where numbness ended in the beginning. I've woken up for two weeks stretching both arms, exept the right is upright whereas the left is max. 90 degrees. I am able to use arm among the trunk. At that point, the clavicle is not very active, so it feels good and I think it's quite safe. Carrying things is not very good, so I try to avoid that. I shouldn't open the doors with my left arm, and that I forget all the time and that is a small problem. Everybody tells me I should avoid lifting the arm (above the 90 degrees), because movement in the fracture would slow the healing process. Still, the plated fracture takes more time to heal than one without the plate, because it doesn't get strained as much. No one can tell me it's ok to find the right amount of movement because the worst possible scenario would we breaking the plate, but since there was visible ossification in the x-ray on three weeks, I think I can use the arm if I do it carefully and stop doing it if I feel i's not comfortable. But it doesn't mean I'd carry anything heavy, just movement and use it a bit. I don't know if anyone's had such a clean fracture that they hadn't had any fragments detached. Mine is 2 cm long. So it'll mostly be absorbed, huh?