broken clavicle...surgery or not?

[willy81]

67Rally, I am glad your surgery was successful and now you are in great shape. My scar is also almost invisible. I am also in great shape, I play contact sports as before. Unfortunately bsbs have stopped posting here but in his lasts posts he said that he is doing great too. It is good that surgery was so beneficial for all 3 of us.

 

[steven ss]

Now here is a question for people who didn't get surgery, how did it feel after 2 1/2 weeks of heeling? Was there still discomfort and some minor pain? Just want to see if it is healing.

 

[willy81]

healing process, with or without surgery, takes several weeks, read this link to understand the stages of healing, Stage 1 is the formation of Soft Calus Stage 2 is the formation of Hard Calus which starts after 3 weeks IF the two pieces are close to each other. But even after several months there is Ca and Phosphate deposited at the fracture site and the formation of the Hard Calus continues. http://www.physioroom.com/injuries/bone_fracture/4_soft_callus_formation.php In your case steven, everything will happen faster since your bone did not break, just partially fractured so there is no separation, at the fracture site some part of the cross section is still intakt, that's great advantage and this is the only case I would not be so positive about surgery or at all, but for those who did not have surgery the two pieces could move freely against each other for several weeks and eventually not able to form a union at any angle and of course will never align to each other. Take the case of bsbs, he was waiting for 3 years to heal but nothing happened.

 

[alienator]

In your case steven, everything will happen faster since your bone did not break, just fractured so there is no separation, at the fracture site some part of the cross section is still intakt,

Uhm break=fracture. There are incomplete fractures and incomplete breaks.

that's great advantage and this is the only case I would not be so positive about surgery

Given that you are not a doctor and most certainly not a surgeon; given that you have no background from which to give medical advice; and given that your advise has zero credibility, a person would have to be an idiot to take your medical advice.

but for those who did not have surgery the two pieces could move freely against each other for several weeks and eventually not able to form a union at any angle and of course will never align to each other. Take the case of bsbs, he was waiting for 3 years to heal but nothing happens.

Here you're just guessing since you have no clue, in fact, what you are talking about.

 

[bsbs1876]

Okay, I'm back because this is entertaining...

Thing is, I don't disagree with alienator. He is just a ***** and decides to approach everything with a fourth grader "told you so" mentality.

Clavicle fractures have been healing naturally for hundreds of years and many people have little to no problems. We all know that. There is a good chance of the bone healing naturally. Even if it is on a bad angle, some people can just tolerate that more and every single person's body is different. No one is the same. However, some quick research will show you that recently surgeons are in favor of surgery for people with high demanding, active lifestyles because it is a quicker return to sport and provides proper anatomical position of the bone.

In my case, which is one out of millions, I could not stand the way my collar bone healed in a deformed and angular position. It threw my body out of balance and caused bad posture with accompanying pain. I am 5.5 months out of an osteotomy of the clavicle to lengthen and re-position a 3 year old fractured clavicle malunion and could not be happier with my decision to have it fixed.

How else can you look at it!? Let's all just think and be reasonable here. I know we've all Googled the **** out of this and are on the same page, but some people are just pushing their chests out further than others and jumping the gun.

 

[alienator]

Okay, I'm back because this is entertaining... Thing is, I don't disagree with alienator. He is just a ***** and decides to approach everything with a fourth grader "told you so" mentality. Clavicle fractures have been healing naturally for hundreds of years and many people have little to no problems. We all know that. There is a good chance of the bone healing naturally. Even if it is on a bad angle, some people can just tolerate that more and every single person's body is different. No one is the same. However, some quick research will show you that recently surgeons are in favor of surgery for people with high demanding, active lifestyles because it is a quicker return to sport and provides proper anatomical position of the bone. In my case, which is one out of millions, I could not stand the way my collar bone healed in a deformed and angular position. It threw my body out of balance and caused bad posture with accompanying pain. I am 5.5 months out of an osteotomy of the clavicle to lengthen and re-position a 3 year old fractured clavicle malunion and could not be happier with my decision to have it fixed. How else can you look at it!? Let's all just think and be reasonable here. I know we've all Googled the **** out of this and are on the same page, but some people are just pushing their chests out further than others and jumping the gun.

Actually, I approach idiots that give out medical advice that way because it's reckless and wrong. There aren't a lot of things you can do online that are more wrong, except maybe to accept such ignorant and irresponsibly given medical advice. There's nothing fourth grader about that. There is a lot of not wanting someone to suffer an untoward outcome because they took some idiots ill advised medical advise.

 

[willy81]

this is what Brad explains and this is what I believe as well. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReENIPUufWY&feature=youtu.be I will repeat that in the long run all operated collar bone patients are happy which of course is not the case for those who opted not to have the surgery. As the video says, people engaged heavily in the sports need to go ahead with the surgery otherwise their performance will drop btw Brad, good to have you back, stay around and share your knowledge and experience with others who need it. Personally, I am doing great. My muscles revive and take their normal strength all the time. A few days ago I had some wrestling with a friend and suddenly I felt a little pain near the head of the humerus. I worried that there might be a displacement or something. However there is no problem with the CB, it was just my dormant muscles which come back. The day after I felt stronger. The numbness at the impact point (remember?, you know what I mean) has also diminished, it is not completely gone but it will.

 

[bsbs1876]

Originally Posted by alienator .


Actually, I approach idiots that give out medical advice that way because it's reckless and wrong. There aren't a lot of things you can do online that are more wrong, except maybe to accept such ignorant and irresponsibly given medical advice. There's nothing fourth grader about that. There is a lot of not wanting someone to suffer an untoward outcome because they took some idiots ill advised medical advise.

I'm not sure of anyone else's intentions, but I am not trying to give medical advice. I am trying to give insight and opinion based on personal experience. The users posting here are asking for that and I am replying to them. It is how a message board or forum works. My suggestion is simply that - a suggestion.

Originally Posted by willy81 .

this is what Brad explains and this is what I believe as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReENIPUufWY&feature=youtu.be


I will repeat that in the long run all operated collar bone patients are happy which of course is not the case for those who opted not to have the surgery.
As the video says, people engaged heavily in the sports need to go ahead with the surgery otherwise their performance will drop


btw Brad, good to have you back, stay around and share your knowledge and experience with others who need it.


Personally, I am doing great. My muscles revive and take their normal strength all the time. A few days ago I had some wrestling with a friend and suddenly I felt a little pain near the head of the humerus. I worried that there might be a displacement or something. However there is no problem with the CB, it was just my dormant muscles which come back.
The day after I felt stronger.
The numbness at the impact point (remember?, you know what I mean) has also diminished, it is not completely gone but it will.

The video is of one surgeon's opinion. It is of Dr. Joseph Yu. He has posted here a few times. I agree with his outlook on the injury but there are still some doctors who think differently. Clavicle fracture treatment is very controversial worldwide.

Your statement that all operated collar bone patients are happy is based on a small survey of what you have seen on this board and perhaps elsewhere. I am willing to put a lot of money on the fact that somewhere out there, someone has received this operation and was very unhappy with the results. I am sure many have. There have been major infections, nonunions after surgery, hardware complications, multiple surgeries with failure. Perhaps those would have actually done better with a more natural route? Who knows? I think it is inaccurate to say that everyone is happy with this surgery.

 

[alienator]

I'm not sure of anyone else's intentions, but I am not trying to give medical advice. I am trying to give insight and opinion based on personal experience. The users posting here are asking for that and I am replying to them. It is how a message board or forum works. My suggestion is simply that - a suggestion.

Yes, but there are people dispensing medical advice and making absolute statements about outcomes, procedures, and etc. That is the problem. If you don't view it as a big problem, good for you. I view it as a huge problem, a problem in the same vein as Jenny McCarthy giving advise about vaccinations.

 

[willy81]

bsbs, yes, my opinion that everyone is happy is based on persons I have spoken to or had the chance to exchange opinions on message boards. If the Doctor is experienced and follows the medical procedures there is very little chance of post op complications. There are cases of malunion even with surgery but this can be attributed to bad medical practices. Even taking an aspirin could be dangerous, you can have a brain hemorrhage, it is noted. There is no drug without side effects and of course a surgery can be risky too. Some people are scared that they will not recover from the anesthesia. Experienced Doctors use a very light anesthesia and then a Interscalene nerve block (Google it) and then they cut your skin. I believe the non-happy operated patients are very low which makes the whole process very secure and worth the money and the associated risks. bsbs with all this talk you didn't tell us how are you doing these days? have undertaken any new adventures?

 

[steven ss]

As requested.

 

[willy81]

excuse me, but what I can see is that your CB is broken in two points, one is totally broken, a clean fracture, the second is broken but the two pieces still hold to each other, there is no displacement but the angle is quite a lot, almost a right angle, from this perspective. how do you think it will heal best? with or without surgery?

 

[steven ss]

Originally Posted by willy81 .

excuse me, but what I can see is that your CB is broken in two points,
one is totally broken, a clean fracture,

the second is broken but the two pieces still hold to each other, there is no displacement but the angle is quite a lot, almost a right angle, from this perspective.

how do you think it will heal best? with or without surgery?

honestly dont know that was taken yesterday. i can move my arm without much pain.

 

[willy81]

excuse me, but what I can see is that your CB is broken in two points, one is totally broken, a clean fracture, the second is broken but the two pieces still hold to each other, there is no displacement but the angle is quite a lot, almost a right angle, from this perspective. how do you think it will heal best? with or without surgery?

honestly dont know that was taken yesterday. i can move my arm without much pain.

sure you can, who told you that you are not able to move your arm with a broken CB, I could move my arm quite a lot with a broken CB too, I could lift it up and point the sky, full extension without much pain either. That's not the point for me. Ask your Doctor how many fractures you have in total. If I am correct, with two fractures you will need a surgery anyway. I can see two, probably someone here can help!

 

[alienator]

sure you can, who told you that you are not able to move your arm with a broken CB, I could move my arm quite a lot with a broken CB too, I could lift it up and point the sky, full extension without much pain either. That's not the point for me. Ask your Doctor how many fractures you have in total. If I am correct, with two fractures you will need a surgery anyway. I can see two, probably someone here can help!

The x-ray aside, once again Doc ***** is in way over his head dispensing advice for which he has no qualifications. None. Zip. Zero. For those that think taking internet medical advice is wise or that Doc ***** is credible on this topic, I suggest you read about this: The Dunning-Kruger Effect I made the link extra large to emphasize its relevance to Doc ***** and all those in this thread and elsewhere that think they can diagnose, think they're doctors, or think that anonymous people on the internet are reputable sources of medical advice.

 

[bsbs1876]

The x-ray aside, once again Doc ***** is in way over his head dispensing advice for which he has no qualifications. None. Zip. Zero. For those that think taking internet medical advice is wise or that Doc ***** is credible on this topic, I suggest you read about this: The Dunning-Kruger Effect I made the link extra large to emphasize its relevance to Doc ***** and all those in this thread and elsewhere that think they can diagnose, think they're doctors, or think that anonymous people on the internet are reputable sources of medical advice.

You should just go ahead and write a message into notepad, save it on your desktop and paste it here every time ***** posts. We get it.

 

[alienator]

You should just go ahead and write a message into notepad, save it on your desktop and paste it here every time ***** posts. We get it.

I hardly think everyone gets it. Importantly, Doc ***** doesn't get it. Most importantly, new users might come and think that ***** is a credible source of medical advice and counsel, and that would be a big mistake for them.

 

[willy81]

bsbs, what do you think about steven ss xrays?

 

[drydock]

I'm not sure what alienator's problem is. Although I'm still trying to convince my orthapedic specialist to operate on me (I may have to go to a private clinic and pay out of my own pocket), many of the doctors I've seen have referenced the 2007 study out of Toronto by Dr. Mckee which shows that surgery is almost always better for a broken collarbone. One ER doctor even told me that they were reluctant to publish the study because of what it would mean practically for already overbooked operating rooms. alienator has a point in that ***** is totally unqualified for dispensing medical advice but he is going from his own experience. You are coming off as a complete dickwad alienator and I'm not sure why you care so much. Do you own stock in figure 8 brace material or something?

There's no way you can convince me or anyone that knows anything about what a healthy shoulder girdle should look and function like that a shortened clavicle won't increase your chances of developing shoulder problems later on, especially for someone very active. the only way to get it back to normal is to have it done surgically.

 

[drydock]

Originally Posted by alienator .


I hardly think everyone gets it. Importantly, Doc ***** doesn't get it. Most importantly, new users might come and think that ***** is a credible source of medical advice and counsel, and that would be a big mistake for them.

i get bad information online and i get bad information from doctors. i also get good information online and good information from doctors. its up to you and me to wade through it and use our brains and what we have learned from peer reviewed medical studies, online forum discussions, discussions with other athletes, etc. to figure out whats right for ourselves. If it weren't for me searching online and reading people's experiences i'd probably listen to the first doc that told me to let it heal on its own. as it is ive already wasted 2 weeks waiting for a doc to come around. you come off as a complete ******** and i just wish youd stop cluttering up this thread with your anti-***** propagandha. i see your original point but i just think you are a ********.