Backpacking Kit

you've got no idea how he got his data, or how he did his research...

absolutely.

going back some umpteen messages, the point was that you won't need a
survival bag for a beach walk of an hour (I use extreme example!)...
but to go into the wilds of scotland on a multi-day trip (again, an
extreme for many people) you would be foolish not to take one... as
witha torch etc etc

urlhttp://www.thehelmets.co.uk/url said:

you've got no idea how he got his data, or how he did his research...

It's pretty clear he didn't look at all the cases where what he proposes
has no record of doing what he predicts it will. No amount or research
will change what *has already happened*, and had no obvious effect at all.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

I must admit that you managed to glean a lot of information from that
small snippett?

How do you manage it?

urlhttp://www.thehelmets.co.uk/url said:

going back some umpteen messages, the point was that you won't need a
survival bag for a beach walk of an hour (I use extreme example!)...
but to go into the wilds of scotland on a multi-day trip (again, an
extreme for many people) you would be foolish not to take one...

But for a multi-day trip into the wilds of Scotland backpacking you'll
have primary accommodation available to you in any case, so there is no
particular need for an emergency backup. Even taking that into account
there's plenty of occasions where you can do a multi day trip through
the wilds of Scotland with no special kit at all: how do you think the
natives survived there for thousands of years before bivvi bags and
first aid were invented?

As for FAKs, the last but one course I took someone asked the instructor
what he used in his FAK. His reply was he didn't usually bother taking
one, but the roll of gaffer tape he'd have along for general use could
be used to substitute in most cases.

The MRT page you pointed out made much greater emphasis on learning
first aid than carrying a FAK. If you'd done (or rather, taken in) any
formal first aid training you'd know most of it is procedures and
precedences, not Stuff. That knowledge is much more potentially
life-saving than a FAK. I'm a qualified first aider, are you? Not many
of the very many experienced mountaineers I know are qualified first
aiders, do you think that makes them a danger to themselves? I don't.

And while we're on the subject of MRTs, at a talk I was at given by
Alfie Ingram, who led the Tayside Team (and is still heavily involved
with it), he started with a couple of slides of typical hillgoers. The
first was a shepherd dressed in tweeds and wellies, heading into the
Scottish Wilds for at least a couple of days. Aside from the clothes he
stood up in, Alf suggested extra equipment probably consisted of a
cheesy piece in his pocket. Next slide was a fit looking lad in All The
Right Gear. Alf pointed out that he would expect the latter to be far
more likely to need his help than the former, who could use experience
much better to his advantage.

It is simply /not the case/ that you can assign "must haves" in nearly
so much of a blanket fashion as you seem to think you can.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

urlhttp://www.thehelmets.co.uk/url said:

I must admit that you managed to glean a lot of information from that
small snippett?

How do you manage it?

Well, you manage to attribute all sorts of amazing knowledge to how your
gut feels at the time...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Irony?

Have you ever slept in a survival bag - they are much warmer (& v
sweaty!)

We were walking in the Picos de Europa a couple of years ago. A
dislodged "rock" fell on a mate of mine, quite seriously gashing his
leg. The first aid kit provided a sterile dressing.

you do?

you're absolutely right pete. sorry.

urlhttp://www.thehelmets.co.uk/url said:

We were walking in the Picos de Europa a couple of years ago. A
dislodged "rock" fell on a mate of mine, quite seriously gashing his
leg. The first aid kit provided a sterile dressing.

And everyone who's ever gashed their leg without a sterile dressing
handy has died or needed their leg amputating? As I said, a FAK is
mainly about comfort, not saving life.

Pete.

p.s. when are you going to learn how to quote text in replies so they
make a bit of sense to more casual readers?
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

you see, you've managed to do it again.... diving in without knowing
the facts.

urlhttp://www.thehelmets.co.uk/url said:

you see, you've managed to do it again.... diving in without knowing
the facts.

So if the basic facts you presented are not enough to allow anyone to
usefully conclude anything, what exactly is the point of the observation?

And when are you going to learn how to quote text in replies so they
make a bit of sense to more casual readers? I realise that would
involve Having A Clue on your part, but stranger things have happened...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

and now the personal insults....

urlhttp://www.thehelmets.co.uk/url said:

you do?

As Roger said earlier could you quote some previous text to show what
you're replying to. It's tough for us Wanadoo refugees on Google Groups
to know what you're talking about. Well, obviously tough anyway but...

urlhttp://www.thehelmets.co.uk/url said:

and now the personal insults....

It's a very basic lack of manners to everyone reading that you can't be
bothered to conform to standard netiquette and quote the points you're
replying to in order that the thread be easier to understand.

I'm not doing anything worse on the manners front than that, and I'm
only being rude to one person who was rude to everyone else first.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

"I'm only being rude to one person who was rude to everyone else first.
" ... yeah... and my dads bigger than yours etc etc Zzzz

I havent been rude to anyone... feel free to read through all of my
posts to any newsgroup (this is possible through google groups). You
will see that I am not a rude person, and have respect for other
peoples views. Sometimes Usenet gets abused by people (point in
hand)... and this is the reason it's not as popular as it once was.
We're lucky we live in a country which allows free speech, but there
again - when you read some of the drivel it makes you wonder.

Peter Clinch said:

urlhttp://www.thehelmets.co.uk/url said:

Do you bother with a first aid kit or survival bag?
I've certainly never NEEDED either of them I never WANTED to carry
them....

It depends...
...If there's more than one of me I think a group
shelter is far more use than a bivvi-bag and it is often actively useful
in standard use with no emergencies.

Crikey! How common is schizophrenia amongst hillwalking kayak paddlers
who also cycle?

I hope you remember to take your medication. :-)
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

urlhttp://www.thehelmets.co.uk/url said:

Do you bother with a first aid kit or survival bag?
I've certainly never NEEDED either of them I never WANTED to carry
them....

I _always_ carry a first aid kit and survival bag, even in a daysac.
I've never reckoned on needing one for myself (none of us ever do!), but
in case I come across someone who does.

Jim Ford

Phil Cook said:

Crikey! How common is schizophrenia amongst hillwalking kayak paddlers
who also cycle?

It does solve the "so much to do and so little time" problem :-)
I'm working on it so I can go both orienteering and paddling on
Tuesday evenings...

(and no, running through the forest carrying a sea kayak on my head is not
a solution!)

Roos

Jim Ford said:

I _always_ carry a first aid kit and survival bag, even in a daysac.

Always? Including when popping down to the shops with that daysac for a
pint of milk, loaf of bread and a paper? For a picnic in the park?
"Always", especially with emphasis, means quite a lot!

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/