Attacking hills

Don Wagner said:

(Hunrobe) said:

Quoted message said:

David Reuteler [email hidden] wrote:
pessimist.

Quoted message said:

You say pessimist. I say realist. <g>
Regards,
Bob Hunt

A pessimist is a optimist with experience.
A cynic is a pessimist with a job.
;-)
--Don--
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

yes, exactly! in this situation that'll work just fine.
--
david reuteler
[email hidden]

In article <[email hidden]>,

Ryan Cousineau said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Tom Keats) said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Badger_South said:

On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 21:47:30 -0700, [email hidden] (Tom Keats) wrote:

> I got past him at the bottom of the dip at 54 km/h
>(in a 30 km/h zone) and stormed up the next upslope without
>downshifting

You have 18mph zones? Where in a parking lot?

Adjacent to schools, parks/playgrounds and community centres.

And also in some more bizarre locations. Columbia street in New
Westminster is a baffling 30 km/h throughout the downtown section.

Yeah, I've ridden the Front/Columbia Street stretch up to Brunette
a number of times, myself. I like the boost one gets from the
bow waves of the trucks in the inside lane. 40-45 km/h is easily
attainable, even with my ol' Pig Iron, fully laden. But you're
talking about Columbia Street before the diversion. I think there's
some municipal politics at play there. The New Westminster City
Council is (quite rightly) perterbed about rat-running commuters
coming from Coquitlam, blasting through town, and spilling over onto
non-commuter streets. Retail areas really need speed enforcement so
consumers can easily mosey up to shops and part with their money and
support the local economy. And parallel park into on-street, metered
parking spots without somebody in a hurry to get to Whalley to blow
their paycheque on drugs, ramming into them. So I think those speed
limits are meant to prevent commuters from usurping New West's
Marketplace part of town. Good on 'em for it, I sez.

Quoted message said:

I can
violate that limit on some of the uphill sections.

Then, when you're stopped and waiting for a break in cross traffic,
and the uphill lies before you, you'll really be able to show any
upstart rider who dares to butt in front of you what's what.
Without clobbering any pedestrians in the process, of course.

Quoted message said:

The residential
streets in my part of town are all 30 km/h, as is a stretch of the
Coquitlam section of Gatensbury road, despite the fact that it has a
painted centre lane and the nearest park is blocks away, on the other
side of a major road.

Maybe that's also to dissuade any rat-runner commuters?

cheers,
Tom

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In article <[email hidden]>,

the black rose said:

Quoted message said:

It's all too easy to just lazily leave the front derailer on
the middle ring and just shift the rear cogs. But if you work
that big ring at every opportune moment, you'll notice a marked
increase in speed. In fact, it seems you already did.

Yup. I've absorbed a lot of information in a short period of time;
takes a while to gel, but I do learn eventually. *grin*

Aw, I ain't buggin' ya. The usual advice we hear is to generally
use the middle ring for the flats, the big ring for the downhills
and the little ring for the uphills. So I went with that -- for
far too comfortably stuck-in-a-rut long. That's adequate for when
newbies or riders returning from a long cycling hiatus ask "what
gears should I use?" But after awhile, it just ain't enough;
especially with typical, low, MTB gearing. And I've discovered
how intelligently using the big ring is conducive to 'overreaching',
which is, I think, the best way to develop strength and speed.
I didn't mean to sound like a proselyte (although in all honesty,
chances are I have inwittingly become one.)

So, I've learned the big ring for downhills, middle ring for flats
and granny for uphills is just a starting point of reference. It
can (and should be) fine-tuned from there.

In a nutshell, all I want to say is: don't get stuck in that same
rut I did, of following that conventional advice for too long.

....

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But I sure clobbered him.

Heh. But you called him pudgy -- so did he really have a sporting chance?

Those heavier guys can be cannonballs on the downgrades, and they
know it, and play it as far as they can. If he used his big ring,
chances are he'd have gotten the better of me. When he butted in
front of me when we were stopped, I got to eyeball where his
gearing was. Middle ring, middle cog. Knobby tires. He did
pretty good in spite of his self-imposed restrictions.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Usually, when other riders want to pass me, I give way and
let them, without making a stoopid pointe d'honeur about it.
I just hate being butted-in on.

And on rollies, when you get a good running start on the next
up-slant, momentum is your (and your knees'😉 friend. I guess
you know that, too.

Anyhow, put that big ring to use whenever you can (without killing
yourself), and you'll derive lotsa speed.

Gotcha. :-)

-km, improving ever-so-slowly, but improving nonetheless.

Getting faster isn't necessarily an improveme... aw, I've
just gotta shuddup now. Just have good rides.

cheers,
Tom

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Tom Keats said:

Getting faster isn't necessarily an improveme...

*snorfle* You haven't had to ride with me, obviously. :-D

--
the black rose
proud to be owned by a yorkie
http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (Don Wagner)

Quoted message said:

A pessimist is a optimist with experience.
A cynic is a pessimist with a job.

I'd describe myself as a cynical pessimist then. Not that anyone cares... or is
that too cynical of an attitude? <g>

Regards,
Bob Hunt

Quoted message said:

Take some advice from Carmichael<Sp?> (via Lance Armstrong and the rest
of the team), downshift and spin on the hills.

I remember when a member of peloton (Kevin Livingston?) was asked, "Do you
push a big gear or spin a small gear on the climbs?"

His response: "I spin a big gear..."

Chris Neary
[email hidden]

"Science, freedom, beauty, adventure: what more could
you ask of life? Bicycling combined all the elements I
loved" - Adapted from a quotation by Charles Lindbergh

Quoted message said:

Chris Neary [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

remember when a member of peloton (Kevin Livingston?) was asked, "Do you
push a big gear or spin a small gear on the climbs?"

His response: "I spin a big gear..."

Not to deride Livingston's climbing technique but since when does an
approximate 70 gear inches ratio (42 x 17) qualify as a "big gear"? It is a
snappy comeback and great line though.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

"Hunrobe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Chris Neary [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

remember when a member of peloton (Kevin Livingston?) was asked, "Do you
push a big gear or spin a small gear on the climbs?"

His response: "I spin a big gear..."

Not to deride Livingston's climbing technique but since when does an
approximate 70 gear inches ratio (42 x 17) qualify as a "big gear"? It is

a

Quoted message said:

snappy comeback and great line though.

Bicycling Magazine has the advice this month of shifting into a smaller gear
if it's your legs getting tired, and using a bigger gear if it's your lungs
that are getting tired. As I was going up "The Wall", a short but steep hill
yesterday, I was thinking, what are you supposed to do when your legs have
given out, your lungs are screaming, and you don't have any gears left on
your chainring?

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
please substitute yahoo for mousepotato to reply
Home of the meditative cyclist:
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Mon, 09 Aug 2004 03:52:13 GMT,
<[email hidden]>,

Claire Petersky said:

what are you supposed to do when your legs have
given out, your lungs are screaming, and you don't have any gears left on
your chainring?

It sounds like you need to have a talk with your trainer about getting
you onto some better supplements.
--
zk

Claire Petersky said:

I was thinking, what are you supposed to do when your legs have
given out, your lungs are screaming, and you don't have any gears left on
your chainring?

Turn around and head for Peets.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

Claire Petersky said:

"Hunrobe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Chris Neary [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

remember when a member of peloton (Kevin Livingston?) was asked, "Do you
push a big gear or spin a small gear on the climbs?"

His response: "I spin a big gear..."

Not to deride Livingston's climbing technique but since when does an
approximate 70 gear inches ratio (42 x 17) qualify as a "big gear"? It is

a

Quoted message said:

snappy comeback and great line though.

Bicycling Magazine has the advice this month of shifting into a smaller gear
if it's your legs getting tired, and using a bigger gear if it's your lungs
that are getting tired. As I was going up "The Wall", a short but steep hill
yesterday, I was thinking, what are you supposed to do when your legs have
given out, your lungs are screaming, and you don't have any gears left on
your chainring?

Dunno. I still haven't figured out why my legs aren't screaming when my
heart rate soars to 192 bpm on hills. But then, near as I can figure,
I'm a freaking hummingbird.

-km

--
the black rose
proud to be owned by a yorkie
http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts

Claire Petersky said:

Bicycling Magazine has the advice this month of shifting into a smaller gear
if it's your legs getting tired, and using a bigger gear if it's your lungs
that are getting tired. As I was going up "The Wall", a short but steep hill
yesterday, I was thinking, what are you supposed to do when your legs have
given out, your lungs are screaming, and you don't have any gears left on
your chainring?

This describes me in my local terrain, so do what I do: slow down.
Go slower _before_ the hill, too, so you have a little more oomph
left when you need it.
--
Rick Onanian

Rick Onanian said:

Claire Petersky said:

Bicycling Magazine has the advice this month of shifting into a smaller
gear
if it's your legs getting tired, and using a bigger gear if it's your
lungs
that are getting tired. As I was going up "The Wall", a short but steep
hill
yesterday, I was thinking, what are you supposed to do when your legs
have
given out, your lungs are screaming, and you don't have any gears left
on
your chainring?

This describes me in my local terrain, so do what I do: slow down.
Go slower _before_ the hill, too, so you have a little more oomph
left when you need it.
--
Rick Onanian

I call my steep hill "Col de Hogsback." I rode with my GPS this weekend,
and the darn hill is only about 5% average grade. 5%! You could've
fooled me, as I look up at the road from the base. I still use it as the
finishing point of my long rides, though.

--
Bob in CT
Remove ".x" to reply

Rick Onanian said:

This describes me in my local terrain, so do what I do: slow down.
Go slower _before_ the hill, too, so you have a little more oomph
left when you need it.

yea, but what if the hill is 4 to 17 miles long and 6+%? anyway, you're on
to the right answer .. you need to make friends with the climb if you're
gonna be there for a while. it needn't be an adversarial relationship.
--
david reuteler
[email hidden]

the black rose said:

So it is with great trepidation that timidly report that I was able to
get up hills at least 50% faster by attacking them, some of them 100%
faster, and increased my average speed for the entire ride by 1.3 mi/hr
(around 16 miles). This is a HUGE improvement for me. These were all
rolling hills, not too big, all preceded by a nice downhill to gather
speed -- what I did was stay in the big gear I'd been in on the downhill
and stand up to dance on the pedals as long as I could take it without
downshifting. This got me at least halfway up most of them before I'd
have to back off a little, sit back in the saddle and downshift. This
got me up all but one hill on the large chainring; the one I couldn't
manage, I only dropped to the middle chainring. I was blowing pretty
hard at the tops of the hills, but I made them in what was for me record
time. I was psyched.

<snip shifting disclaimers to save space>

Quoted message said:

I am quite pleased with these results. I'm definitely going to continue
attacking hills and see what kind of progress I can make.

Just wanted to do a repost of this exciting and inspiring message, and
to thank you for the help it gave my climbing.

I'm still trying to stay in the saddle, but when I get back home I'm
going to apply more of this, more attacking, more pedal dancing, more
'stringing together' of the efforts, and controlling my breathing. I
like the way you describe it as 'blowing', b/c I do focuse of
breathing out, forcefully (which fills the lungs). ;-)

It's a matter of concentration and mental toughness and you have a lot
of this - great job! Without those, it's difficult to even contemplate
pushing it like this at times, but good base training will help get
you there. This is, imo, what 'courage' is that the commentators
describe.

Got my speedy legs back yesterday, and did a very nice 20 mile spin in
the flats and false flats at the beach. It's amazing how you can have
a couple 'blah' days, but still keep going fairly hard, then the next
day go out and just blast! Don't know what the physical basis is, but
I kept thinking 'go legs, go' yesterday and fought the 'unresponsive'
feeling. Guess that got the circulation going.

This morning the legs and everything else feels fine.

One thing I still need to work on <g> is relaxing. Still too much
tension on the H/Bs, gripping when it's not really needed. That's my
mantra for the rest of the week, while keeping up the cadence.

Got a nice boost watching the OLN Bike racing - Tour de Naz, yesterday
(rebroadcast from this summer).

http://www.tourdenez.com/events/

-B
PS - you rule!

In article <[email hidden]>,

Badger_South said:

Got a nice boost watching the OLN Bike racing - Tour de Naz, yesterday
(rebroadcast from this summer).

http://www.tourdenez.com/events/

Yes, wasn't it great to watch local Webcor rider Justin England ride
so comfortably up the hills? What a smooth, high cadence and a
relaxed upper body. He also won this year's Mt. Washington hill
climb.

Did you notice Chris Walker, sporting the stars and stripes of his
elite national champion jersey? Not bad for a 42-year old. He caught
and passed us on Sunday's Everest Challenge stage, about 4 hours
into the ride, breathing hard but looking comfortable. He was the
first one to go by, but he ultimately finished third, 7 minutes
behind the winner.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

Lots of good ideas here in this thread. Hope this adds something.
the OP talks about attacking hills and doing so in bigger gears and
her success.
Later on a poster(Mort I think) talks about gearing down at the
beginning of hills so that you can upshift and do the real work near
the top. That was the way I learned as a racer as well. I also was
taught to really concentrate on staying seated (mostly) and staying as
relaxed as possible. I even had a coach who rode along side and if he
saw you tightening your grip he'd smash your hands with a pump!

But I did most of my learning before the use of inexpensive HR
monitors. I think that they are a most valuable tool for climbing. I
have a pretty good idea of what HR I can maintain and I am very
careful on long climbs to stay at or just below that level. Speed be
damned, if I blow up the speed is going to get worse. So, I really pay
attention to this and find that when I can do so effectively I wind up
with my best performance.

This applies to longish, sustained climbs. On short rollers or
"sprinters hills" I will always stay the pack or if by myself "sprint"
through them- but on these we are talking about less than a minute of
real hard effort, nothing like a 10 mile grind.

"Terry Morse" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Badger_South said:

Got a nice boost watching the OLN Bike racing - Tour de Naz, yesterday
(rebroadcast from this summer).

http://www.tourdenez.com/events/

Yes, wasn't it great to watch local Webcor rider Justin England ride
so comfortably up the hills? What a smooth, high cadence and a
relaxed upper body. He also won this year's Mt. Washington hill
climb.

Did you notice Chris Walker, sporting the stars and stripes of his
elite national champion jersey? Not bad for a 42-year old. He caught
and passed us on Sunday's Everest Challenge stage, about 4 hours
into the ride, breathing hard but looking comfortable. He was the
first one to go by, but he ultimately finished third, 7 minutes
behind the winner.

What surprised me was that of the top 25 male finishers in this years Mt.
Washington climb, the largest group (8) were riders in their 40's.

I enjoyed watching the program, but it was the first I have ever heard of this
race. When is it held?

Mike Euritt said:

I enjoyed watching the program, but it was the first I have ever heard of this
race. When is it held?

Oops, I might have spelled it wrong in the body of the message, but
it's in June. The link I gave was correct:

http://www.tourdenez.com/events/

From the site:
"The 12th Annual Tour de Nez is just around the corner! This three-day
celebration of cycling will be held the 25th-27th of June and will
include mountain bike races and road races in addition to the Classic
Criterium and festival atmosphere of years past."

-B