ARRRRRGH

Luigi de Guzman said:

I must suck at flat-fixing.

Quoted message said:

Many moons ago, I had a flat. I patched it. It held air.
Life was good.

Quoted message said:

I went away for a couple of weeks, during which my bicycle
languished on its hook. now that I come back to it--the
tire is flat. No problem, I'll just pump it up--and then I
hear the sharp hiss.

Quoted message said:

Do patched tires *always* continue to leak? or is my
patching bad?

Quoted message said:

I'll just slap a new tube on it this afternoon and re-
teach myself how to patch. ugh.

draco.acs.uci.edu8b.1.htmlOpen ↗

Jobst Brandt [email hidden]

"Luigi de Guzman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I must suck at flat-fixing.

<<snip..>>

Quoted message said:

Do patched tires *always* continue to leak? or is my
patching bad?

I've patched probably...200 tubes. I never enjoy it and I
never know if it's going to work. I was doing it in the
confines of a nicely appointed shop..doing it on the road
while sweating and rushing, that's a horror I could do
without. I tried to sell new tubes whenever
possible...usually cheaper than the time it takes to patch
one. So don't feel too bad..

Cheers,

Scott..

Luigi,

Just follow the directions in the patch kit to the
letter. Avoid the FAQ because it's full of bad
information on this subject.

Also, don't assume that the patch failed. Did you forget
to remove the culprit from your tire before putting the
tube back in? Or perhaps there was more than one hole to
begin with.

Robert

Luigi who? snipes,

Quoted message said:

Just follow the directions in the patch kit to the letter.
Avoid the FAQ because it's full of bad information on this
subject.

That's a pretty broad brush you use without specifics. Wold
you clarify what it is in the the referenced FAQ that you
find "bad information". If not, then I take it you are just
another disgruntled sniper that arise here on occasion,
usually under an alias. You wouldn't want to be quoted to
your face on this would you?

draco.acs.uci.edu8b.1.htmlOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Also, don't assume that the patch failed. Did you forget
to remove the culprit from your tire before putting the
tube back in? Or perhaps there was more than one hole to
begin with.

That should be evident on second inspection, after it went
flat again. Was the patch leaking or was there another hole?
The reason for the sandpaper in the patch kit is unknown to
many of those who write the instructions, something that is
apparent from the advice to "rough up the tube" before
applying glue.

Jobst Brandt [email hidden]

Luigi de Guzman wrote -

Quoted message said:

I must suck at flat-fixing.

Not so - whilst there are no doubt many sound technical
reasons for why some patches don't work, the real reason was
that the Puncture Gods thought they had had insufficient
sport with you and changing tyres in a nice warm garage with
unfrozen fingers really wasn't much of a penance was it ?

I find making offerings of not quite worn tyres (esp the
rear) before they are embarrassingly thin in the tread tends
to appease the PG's.

Demonstrating unseemly pride by making statements about
how many months / klms it has been since a puncture is a
dead set invitation for retribution, and vengeance will
be theirs.

best, Andrew

"But riding is my special gift, my chiefest, sole delight;
Just ask a wild duck can it swim, a wildcat can it fight...
I'll ride this here two-wheeled concern, right straight
away, at sight." A B 'Banjo' Patterson - "Mulga Bill" 25
July 1896.

Luigi de Guzman said:

I must suck at flat-fixing.

Many moons ago, I had a flat. I patched it. It held air.
Life was good.

I went away for a couple of weeks, during which my bicycle
languished on its hook. now that I come back to it--the
tire is flat. No problem, I'll just pump it up--and then I
hear the sharp hiss.

Do patched tires *always* continue to leak? or is my
patching bad?

I'll just slap a new tube on it this afternoon and re-teach
myself how to patch. ugh.

I've found that the glueless patches work well as long as
you don't let the tires go fairly soft. Then they seem to
wrinkle and leak - but on bikes that I ride daily they seem
to last pretty much forever.

What kind of patch did you use?

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles habcycles.comhabcycles.comOpen ↗ Home of
the $695 ti frame

On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 23:14:11 GMT, [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

The reason for the sandpaper in the patch kit is unknown to
many of those who write the instructions, something that is
apparent from the advice to "rough up the tube" before
applying glue.

It is more important than ever to roughen the surface to
remove oxidation and antistick materials like powdered mica,
and antioxidants that migrate to the surface such as
hindered amines and cyanuric acid salts, etc. In recent
years, the solvent in the cement, which used to be benzene,
has been replaced with 1,1,1-trichlorethylene or
perchloroethylene to Save The World From Cancer. The modern
cements are not as agressively solvating to the rubber as
the benzene products were. It was always good practice to
scuff the rubber, but now it is more needed.

Luigi de Guzman <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

I must suck at flat-fixing.

Many moons ago, I had a flat. I patched it. It held air.
Life was good.

I went away for a couple of weeks, during which my bicycle
languished on its hook. now that I come back to it--the
tire is flat. No problem, I'll just pump it up--and then I
hear the sharp hiss.

Do patched tires *always* continue to leak? or is my
patching bad?

I'll just slap a new tube on it this afternoon and re-
teach myself how to patch. ugh.

-Luigi

Patch or no patch, your tires would still have lost a small
amount of air over a few weeks.

As a last resort, I remove the tube and immerse it in a sink
when searching for intermittent or multiple leaks. Also I
note the orientation of the tube to the tire so I can
examine the tire for remnants of whatever caused the
puncture in the first place. Rusty staples or wire cause
most of my punctures.

I generally ride a patch immediately after slapping it on
with no noticable ill effects.

Robert who? said:

Quoted message said:

That's a pretty broad brush you use without specifics.
Wold you clarify what it is in the the referenced FAQ
that you find "bad information". If not, then I take it
you are just another disgruntled sniper that arise here
on occasion, usually under an alias. You wouldn't want to
be quoted to your face on this would you?

Quoted message said:

We've gone over this before. Quote this: You must let
the "glue" dry completely before applying the patch, as
directed in the REMA patch kit, which on step four of
the directions has a picture of a clock and the words
"min. 5 min." You contend that patches fail even when
they are applied correctly, if they are used immediately
after patching, and that is simply not the case. In fact
the REMA patches are a virtually fail-safe method when
used correctly, and the patched tube can be used
immediately after patching with no problems whatsoever.
Your patches are prone to failure for the simple reason
that you don't let the glue dry near long enough before
applying the patch.

That's why I offer a test so you can convince yourself of
this. Try to pull off a patch that you just applied by the
way you cite and then try to pull one off after it's been in
place for more than a day. The only reasonable way to remove
a well cured patch is to heat it, as has also been
explained. Press the patch on the tube against a hot frying
pan until the heat is apparent to the pressing thumb and the
patch will then peel off like the freshly applied one.

You are just placing too much faith in the instruction
sheet.

Jobst Brandt [email hidden]

Dave who? said:

Quoted message said:

The reason for the sandpaper in the patch kit is unknown
to many of those who write the instructions, something
that is apparent from the advice to "rough up the tube"
before applying glue.

Quoted message said:

It is more important than ever to roughen the surface to
remove oxidation and antistick materials like powdered
mica, and antioxidants that migrate to the surface such as
hindered amines and cyanuric acid salts, etc.

I guess you didn't read the FAQ that was appended to the
message that explains that aspect:

draco.acs.uci.edu8b.1.htmlOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

In recent years, the solvent in the cement, which used to
be benzene, has been replaced with 1,1,1-trichlorethylene
or perchloroethylene to Save The World From Cancer. The
modern cements are not as agressively solvating to the
rubber as the benzene products were. It was always good
practice to scuff the rubber, but now it is more needed.

That may have been better but since most folks don't
rub-it-in, there wasn't a lot of cleansing action going
on. I researched this stuff years ago when we still had
those volatiles and developed my characterization of
patch failures.

Jobst Brandt [email hidden]

Luigi de Guzman said:

I must suck at flat-fixing.

...

Quoted message said:

Do patched tires *always* continue to leak? or is my
patching bad?

Um ... you might just suck at flat fixing!

Patched tires do not normally leak. I think my record for
patches in one tube was about 13, and they all held.

I'm a very slow tube patcher. I got that way by doing it too
fast and too badly while on one of my first bike tours.

I wasn't smart enough to have a spare tube, and the bad
patch couldn't be pulled off, yet couldn't be made to stop
leaking. I finished the weekend by riding three miles,
pumping the tire, riding three miles, pumping the tire...

--
-------------+ Frank Krygowski [To reply, omit what's
between "at" and "cc"]

On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 17:45:34 -0700, Mark Hickey <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Luigi de Guzman said:

I must suck at flat-fixing.

Many moons ago, I had a flat. I patched it. It held air.
Life was good.

I went away for a couple of weeks, during which my bicycle
languished on its hook. now that I come back to it--the
tire is flat. No problem, I'll just pump it up--and then I
hear the sharp hiss.

Do patched tires *always* continue to leak? or is my
patching bad?

I'll just slap a new tube on it this afternoon and re-
teach myself how to patch. ugh.

I've found that the glueless patches work well as long as
you don't let the tires go fairly soft. Then they seem to
wrinkle and leak - but on bikes that I ride daily they seem
to last pretty much forever.

What kind of patch did you use?

It was a glueless one.

I haven't actually bothered to unmount the wheel and take
a good hard look at it all yet today--I've been going to
my little brothers' soccer and baseball games, and so
spent the glorious day cheering and making myself a good-
natured hooligan.

blah. today has been exhausting, and an automotive failure
at the end of it has not made it any better.

If the bike and the car are both failing hell, at least my
shoes are still good.

-Luigi

Quoted message said:

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles habcycles.comhabcycles.comOpen ↗ Home
of the $695 ti frame

On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 23:14:11 GMT, [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Luigi who? snipes,

Quoted message said:

Just follow the directions in the patch kit to the
letter. Avoid the FAQ because it's full of bad
information on this subject.

Just for the record, Mr. (Doctor?) Brandt, I am the OP, and
I am not sniping.

I'm only sorry that, at twenty-three, I wasn't even a
twinkle in my mother's eye when you exhaustively studied
this and other wheel-related phenomena. I have always held
your technical posts in great regard. And you could probably
kick my sorry ass up and down the mountain if it came to
cycling, too.

The answer to my question then seems to be yes, my tube-
patching skills are obviously woefully deficient. mea culpa,
mea maxima culpa; ideo precor vos fratres orare pro me ad
Dominum Deum nostrum.

-Luigi

Luigi de Guzman said:

I must suck at flat-fixing.

I like patching flats. It's easy and fun. I'm the kinda guy
who hates to throw anything away, and I even buy my patches
loose so as to throw out less packaging. I also rescue tubes
that other people have thrown out and patch them.

I find that if you scrape off the top bit of tube with
sandpaper (not those metal grater things), let the cement
dry for long enough, and press the patch on firmly with
the tube inflated that the patches always hold air (99% of
the time).

I have had tubes that were more patches than tubes, and they
worked fine. I don't know about riding on patches right away
'cause I always wait till I get home to put the patch on
anway. Easier to carry a spare tube than worry about
patching on the road in my experience. Most of my riding is
in the city anyhow and I don't even bother to carry a tube
or pump, I'll just hop on the subway if I get a flat.

Luigi de Guzman said:

It was a glueless one.

e.com/groups?&threadm=jdjKb.11314%24Qr5.20455649%40newsfep2-
win.server.ntli.net

Somebody else said:

As a last resort, I remove the tube and immerse it in a
sink when searching for intermittent or multiple leaks.

A spray bottle with water + dish detergent works great, too;
the soapy bubbles stand in place, giving you time to see
them, and build up a foam if it's a really tiny leak.
--
Rick Onanian

"S. Anderson" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

I've patched probably...200 tubes. I never enjoy it and I
never know if it's going to work. I was doing it in the
confines of a nicely appointed shop..doing it on the road
while sweating and rushing, that's a horror I could do
without. I tried to sell new tubes whenever
possible...usually cheaper than the time it takes to patch
one. So don't feel too bad..

I had a flat yesterday, a relatively rare thing, as I only
get a few per year. I really enjoyed it. The most important
thing in flat fixing is to find a comfortable place to work,
so I walked up the road a little to where there was a stone
wall to sit on and lean my bike against. Although I had a
couple of spare tubes, I actually prefer patching on the
road to home in the garage.

I had been riding fast with a group, about halfway along a
40 mile loop when I flatted. I waved them on. I didn't
bother rushing the job, I just took my time, enjoying the
pleasant morning and the simple task. I've had many flats in
places that I wouldn't have otherwise stopped. For the most
part, those stoppings are pleasant memories, I tend to think
of them if I ride by again. The only really bad time I
recall fixing a flat was one cold December day, when I was
lost deep in unfamiliar woods, alone, with a flat, mud
covered tire, at dusk. That isn't a fond memory. Most of the
time, fixing flats can be a pleasant event, it's all a
matter of how you look at it.

Quoted message said:

Most of my riding is in the city anyhow and I don't even
bother to carry a tube or pump, I'll just hop on the subway
if I get a flat.

Patches? Patches? We don't need no stinkin' patches.

--

_______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY
MIND_______________________ ------------------"Buddy Holly,
the Texas Elvis"------------------ __________306.350.357.38-

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

[email hidden]__________

Peter Cole said:

The only really bad time I recall fixing a flat was one
cold December day, when I was lost deep in unfamiliar
woods, alone, with a flat, mud covered tire, at dusk. That
isn't a fond memory.

My version was in a campground in Maine on a summer's
evening. We'd ridden away from our campsite on a sort of
shortcut trail through the marshy woods when the tandem
flatted. Despite three people swatting, I probably lost a
pint of blood to the mosquitos.

How did people live before DEET?

--
-------------
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable,
replace with
cc.ysu]

Luigi de Guzman said:

Mark Hickey said:

What kind of patch did you use?

It was a glueless one.

Oh. Forget those. Get real patches.

--
-------------
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable,
replace with
cc.ysu]